There were many many letters in the mail bag this week... sorry, we had to trim hard.
And now the CBUB presents the Tarzman White Paper. College students take note: this could easily become the backbone of a term paper,
or even a thesis, on this controversial and timely Thing / Colossus issue.
Another excellent match up. My first reaction was to go with the Thing. The ever lovin� (and lovable) Thing. He has the longer history in the Marvel Universe and the bad boy 'don't mess with me' attitude he picked up as a street punk from Yancy Street. Colossus has had this nice guy, �I don�t wanna hurt anyone� reserve he developed as a farm boy in the old Soviet Union. He�s an artist, but he�s also no pushover. Being an X-fan, I had to give Colossus his due consideration before voting.
So in a brief point-by-point analysis I have:
Strength: A quick look around the net told me that both men could lift around 100-110 tons. No clear advantage, or disadvantage, to either.
Body Armor: The Thing�s rock body and Colossus� organic metal one have both proven resistant to huge degrees of punishment. No advantage here either.
Attitude: As I mentioned earlier, the Thing is the epitome of bad attitude and the fighting spirit. Colossus has had a series of personal tragedies that hardened his character and redefined his attitude. Having to battle his evil mutant brother Mikhail and the loss of his parents and especially his sister Illyana have pushed Colossus into wanting to strike back at his enemies. He�s no longer the simple farmboy from Kansas -I mean the Ust-Ordynski Collective in Siberia. Therefore I can only give a slight advantage to Thing for attitude. If he insults Piotr�s family however, the advantage is gone.
Training: Both men have had their fair share of battle experience.
However I don�t recall the gymnasium at the Baxter building, or 4 Freedom Plaza as having the same sophistication as the Danger Room at the X-mansion. Ben depends on his rockhard body to absorb blows and his roughneck, street fighter style to deliver any punishment to his opponent. Piotr is not Colossus all the time and has had to train in both forms in the Danger Room under the demanding scrutiny of several teachers (Professor X, Cyclops, and Magneto come to mind). He not only knows how to take a punch, but he knows how to avoid them. Here the advantage is clearly with Colossus.
In retrospect I was looking for a reason to vote for Colossus over the Thing. I suspected that a lot of people would vote for the more recognizable and �lovable� Benjamin J. Grimm without seriously considering the powerhouse that is Colossus. Of course I should know better than that right. I mean doesn�t everyone take advantage of your carefully placed links at the bottom of the fight page to investigate the combatants before placing their vote. I mean you would never suspect anyone of voting solely on fan loyalty to a character or show above that character�s abilities (he says facetiously as he recalls the rigged contest between Kira/Aeron/Ivanova where one day Aeron is in third with less than 200 votes, 50 votes behind Kira and the next day she was 400 votes ahead of Ivanova and pulling away. I think the vote protection failed on that one).
Anyways I think that my analysis, though not comprehensive, shows that Colossus could easily hold his own against the Thing and should walk away the victor.
A suggestion for a scene of the fight would go like this: The Thing swings a roundhouse right at Colossus; who reverts to Piotr form; the blows passes overhead and lands in the concrete wall behind them. Piotr then transforms to Colossus again as he throws a devastating uppercut that propels the Thing across the arena into a wall on the other side. (since Colossus is behind in the voting, I refrain from finishing the fight in his favor, but the scene could be the impetus for someone to take control of the fight.
Dark Queen writes:
My bet is on Colossus. What can I say, I always hated a man who whore briefs.
Editor's Note: Whore briefs? Hmmmm.... Freudian slip, maybe?
Borneo Jimmy writes:
Ah, a comic-book battle at last, although an easy one to call. By the mid-80s, Marvel had already thoroughly established the pecking order among super-strong heroes.
The Thing is the Swede Hansen or the "Special Delivery" Jones of Marveldom. For those of you unfamiliar with the minor WWF wrestlers of 15 years ago, this means that he's a lovable loser --- a powerful, skilled combatant who's there to show you just how powerful (and evil) some new villain is. He's a big lug with fighting heart.
However, heart is all he's going to need to beat Colossus, who never amounted to much as a "powers" character, and who always remained "naive" and inexperienced despite years of adventuring and Danger Room training.
I remember a one-shot in which an "Elder of the Universe" known as the Champion arrives on earth to box (gloves, ring, all that) with the strongest superheroes, one at a time. It was dippy, but it firmly established the pecking order: Colossus went down quickly, but Ben Grimm refused to give up no matter how badly he was beaten. (The Hulk and Thor had been disqualified for attempting to wrestle and for bringing a hammer into the ring, respectively).
So experience and "heart" will win the day for the Thing, along with the wisecrack factor. The hapless Russian will be distracted by meaningless babble about Yancy Street and the Thing's Aunt Petunia, and find himself eating mat once again. U-S-A! U-S-A!
hi, my name is steve, and I live on Yancy street, and I've met the Thing. Uh the FF's PR people do alot for him, he is really kind of a wuss, those aren't muscles, he has an eating problem. He does'nt say "clobberin time!" He says "slobberin time" than proceeds to eats like it's goin outta style. I once saw him eat a whole kitten, because of that I say to Collosus "Kick his fat rocky ass!"
Wolf-man delondon writes:
okay, Collosus will kick the Things ass for an uncountable number of reasons. For one thing Ol' Petey spends all his free time practiceing his finely honed skills in the danger room. How does the Thing spend his time? Foolin around with his much cooler team-mate flame-head, and eating. Another thing, Collosus is a smart artsy type who also lays the smack-down, just like the samurei of old. The Thing is stupid, breaks stuff, and shouts, I mean they call him the Thing, not the Think, he's a dumbass. I say Collosus "Cloobers" his rocky butt from here to "Yancy Street" in about 15 minutes, 20 if he's not armoured up.
Well let's see here. The Thing will when because he's harder than Colossus. No let me try that again. The Thing will win because he held his own against the Hulk dozens of times...wait a minute. The Thing has had more experience than Colossus...Dammit! I can't make commentary on this fight without sounding gay.
The Animator writes:
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure these guys are evenly matched in stregth and durrablilty. So the thing that will make or break the competiters is attitude.
Now Ben Grimm has that "Its clobberin' time" gimmick, but the whole 'virtuis guy next door superhero' thing is dead. Deader than Disco. Grimm really doesn't have much of an attitude.
Now Collossus, on the other hand, has a REAL attitude. We're talking about the guy who broke Pete Wisdom in half for kissing Shadowcat. We're talking about the guy who sucker-punched Bishop and joined Magneto's Acolytes! We're talking about a RUSSIAN!!!
Thing may fight well, but Collossus fights dirty. Long live the Anti-Hero!
The Thing might not be the best guy on paper...Collossus is suppossed to be stronger now according to Marvel's offical stats. He might not have an extreme edge in fighting skill. After all even though he has been a hero for a long time Collossus has been training in the danger room a long ol while himself. Ben actual does know how to apply Judo to the fight which does give him an edge, but not a signficant one to counter Peter's superior strength. What it all comes down to is willpower. Hal Jordan is the guy you think of when it comes to will power but the Thing is at least his equal. He fights bruisers who on paper he has no way to beat. He has beaten the Hulk once. The HULK. The mere fact that he goes the distance one on one says something for him right there. I forget the villian, some suited up guy who was trying to eliminate war by killing anything that could possible do war...like sentient creatures, but he had the entire FF analyzed down to their cell structure. He grabbed the thing and was pummeling him with enough energy to down him. He was literally shocked when the thing REFUSED to go down despite the overwhelming odds, threw him off, and knocked the mook back. When the dust clears the last man standing will be the idol of millions, making Aunt Petunia and Yancy Street dang proud.
I'll admit that the Thing and Colossus are even in strength (those of you that aren't old-school X-men fans might have forgotten these two are tied in arm wrestling, courtesy of X-Men annual with the Badoon and Arkon etc.) But what's really in question here is this: Who is a better fighter.
Gotta give it to Colossus. Trained by Wolverine. PERIOD. The thing is a tough boiled streetfighter, but Colossus trains strategically.
BUT!If anything, the Thing has experience going for him. And experience will carry you a LONG way in a knockdown drag out... and he's got heart. But Colossus has gone to a dark place and is now prone to being a LOT more aggro than the past. Close call..
but I'll put my money on the quick finish, Colossus baby.
Too Late-man writes:
Collosus vs. the Thing.
Q. Whats harder, Rocks or Steel?
Q. Who has more to fight for?
The Thing is a rocky freak of nature who is a real turn off to the ladies.
Collosus is a huge ripped guy with an accent who can turn to steel, and hangs out with the X-babes.
Q. Who is angrier?
The thing okay he is a freak but he has accepted that and now he is probably just sullen.
Collosus, his sister died came back and died again, his country fell apart, and bunches of his team-mates have bought it.
I could go on and on, but it is pretty clear that the Angry Russian whoops the Orange freak of nature from here to Siberia
The Bunyip writes:
Colossus can't win because he hasn't got the mental endurance.
That's right - this one won't come down to physical prowess; both these guys have that in spades. It will come down to who wants it more, and who has more strength of spirit.
Colossus? The guy's a mental wimp. He's among the less intelligent of the Ex-X-men, joined the bad guys when he got his feelings hurt, acted like a sissy for love, and in general just hasn't been the most mentally stable of Marvel super heroes.
The Thing? Well, this is the guy who won the Beyonder's free-for-all, not because he was strongest, but because he had the stamina and the desire to keep on fighting, even against the Hulk.
He lasted a lot longer against Onslaught than Colossus could dream of.
I'm assuming, of course, that this is a straight one-on-one battle; if so, Piotr might as well give up before he starts. If this is a TEAM battle... well, I always did say that the Fantastic Four are incredibly overrated as a team...
Hey anyone remember when that Elder the Champion passed by and challenged all of Earth big hitters to a fight.
Well Collossus got his arse kicked and didn't even impress the bad guy.
Bashfull Benji got his arse kicked but impressed everyone.
Now sure old tin tush is tough but the Thing actually knows how to fight and has years more experience and will never admit defeat. the X-mans card is marked on this one
THis battle is over before it has begun. The Ever-Lovin'-Blue-Eyed Thing, Benjamin J. Grimm will wipe the floor to a Chrome Bright shine with Colossus. Petey Pureheart may be organic steel, an X-Man and bonafide hero but he got his shiny butt handed to him by the Champion in a boxing match. The Thing lasted 3 rounds and still managed to get up after a pounding that would make Colossus look like a beer can after Spring Break.
Hell, the Thing has gone toe-to-toe with the Incredible Hulk and walked away from it. Colossus went up against the Juggernaut and got a building fropped on his head for the trouble.
Colossus gots heart and strength but the Thing has both those plus the self-confidence that will carry him to victory.
Sorry Pete, but they are gonna need Magneto to pull your butt outta Khazan Arena's floor when the Thing is through with you.
The Toast Rider writes:
Oh man. Talk about close ones. Both these heroes have extensive combat experience, they're immensely strong, they're not stupid, and quite frankly, they're damned cool.
My nod goes to the Thing, for only ONE reason -- he's had to face off against Doctor Doom. That's the ONLY thing that kept the scales from tipping to Piotr. Battling Doom is like graduating magna cum laude from the School of Super Heroism. It'll be a long, hard fight, and I don't expect Thing to win it handily -- but in the end, that little edge is going to make the difference. Ladies and gentlemen, IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME! :)
Fruitbat Messiah writes:
Oh,Man.Talk about the Bout of the Century! (Ya,ya,I know,the whole Hulk/Thing bit,but come on,we all know how overdone that is and besides,we all know how that always turns out. Sorry,Ben.) But anyway,to the match at hand.I gotta give this one to the Thing,by a whisker.Why? Well,let's look at who we have here. First,we have Colossus. Now, Piotr Rasputin is no nancy-boy.This cat can do some MAJOR damage with those steel fists of his.In fact,it's a (debatable) possibility that he might even be just slightly stronger than the Thing. And he's plenty tough,to boot. But Piotr's greatest strength(And ironically,his biggest weakness in this fight)lies in his heart. Colossus is just a plain NICE GUY.
He's noble,pure and so good it makes my teeth hurt. While this may be a major advantage when dealing with the likes of Mr. Sinister,it aint gonna do him much good against Mr.Grimm. Now we consider the Thing. While Ben Grimm is also a decent, big hearted fellow, the simple fact remains that he isn't too good to cheat if necessary. The Yancy Street Powerhouse has not forgotten how to fight dirty. In terms of training and/or experience,the two are very evenly matched. Even though Piotr hasn't been in the hero business as long,his constant training in the Danger Room compensates for that nicely. The Thing has been doing this stuff since Christ was a corporal. Basically, the fight boils down to the old saw:
"Old Age and Treachery beat out Youth and Skill every time."
Good fight, though! "It's Clobberin' time!" (Now if we can just keep the X-Fanboys from stuffing the Ballot...)
The Thing was the only thing that was worth reading in that Fantastic Four thing that's been around fer' years. Well, there was one more thing. Y'know, what it is...that thing. It was this thing or that thing that Dr. Doom would rant on and on which was his thing. Thing is, is that people tend to ferget' what thing is. And what was that thing? Well, it was the...THING!!! Geez, people, you gotta' stay on top of these things.
DamieN Brimstone writes:
Lets get a couple fact out of the way with this fight:
1. Colossus's is measurably stronger than the Thing. He's in the "incalcuable, but not quite Thor/Hulk level". The Thing isn't all that much stronger than Rouge.
2. Colossus is measurably more durable than the Thing. Organic steel beats rocky scales.
But the thing is (no pun intended, I swear), that Ben Grimm still has the decisive advantage going into this fight. The man has an indominable will tougher than adamantium, and rough-and-tumble battle savvy that is almost without equal. He's repeatadly held his own with the incredible freakin Hulk, placed Dr. Doom in danger of grevious bodily harm, and stood up to Cosmic Gods with a only a super nerd, a flaming punk, and a blonde who digs old men standing by his side. Quite simply, as mighty as great as Pitor's strength is, he will still be overpowered the testicular fortitude of the Benjamin J. Grimm!
The Gent writes:
Is Colossus the ever-lovin' blue-eyed idol-a-millions? No. Is Colossus the baddest yahoo this side of Yancy Street? No.
Has Colossus exhibited his strength every single chance given, in combat or not? Has Colossus whupped up on the Hulk for 6 rounds? Has Colossus beaten on giants, world devourers, and even himself? Colossus has just beaten on the Juggernaut. Wasn't the Juggernaut the first to fall in his 3-way match here at the CBUB? I thought so.
Peter is a wonderful character. So is Ben. But Peter isn't a bruiser at heart, but an artist. And while I respect that, the Thing's a scrapper from toes to nose. Hideously deformed, wearing a rocky suit, spikey, lumpy,with his face shredded, with one arm tied behind his back....the Thing's Marvel's #1. Wheras Hulk just smashes for spite, Colossus smashes outta necessity, and Juggernaut smashes usually to the ends of whoever he's hanging around at the time, the Thing's the #1 brawler, fighting merely to fight. And that in my book says no matter how many danger room situations he's run, no matter how may Sentinels he's thrown steel girders at, no matter how many times he's bickered with Wolverine....Colossus is a tuna can in this one.
IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME!
Say it loud.
Howard the Duck writes:
Well, it seems clear to me that this is going be a real slobberknocker. Both powerhouses have a high degree of invulnerablity. Both have comparable high strength. both have defeated villians who are tougher then they are.
So it comes down to one thing, Willpower or Heart if you want to call it that. These two have this in hugh quantity.
However The Thing absolutly refuses to be beat. He has shown us this countless times, one of the most prominent of these incidents was when he fought CHAMPION. Champion eventually gave up after he had pounded the Thing into the gound 4 or 5 times. The Thing kept on getting back up no matter how hurt he was. You would have to kill Uncle Ben
before your rid of him. And even killing maynot stop him, knowing Ben it's would surprise me if he somehow came back just to finish his opponent off.
XXUTAK the Unconquerable writes:
I was torn on this, so I checked my one infallible source on Marvel Universe data-- the Marvel Series III cards. Turns out Ben and Pete are evenly matched for strength...but I think solid steel is just a LITTLE more durable than a pile a rocks, don't you?
The Lucky One writes:
Man, this was a tough call. I kept going back-and-forth in my mind between the two. The X-Men are some of my very favorites, but then, the FF is comics' first family, and you gotta go with the originals.
My first thought was that Ben is generally considered second-in-strength to the Hulk alone, so Petey's just outmatched. But then I remembered UXM Annual #5, where the two have an arm-wrestling match- Ben says that they've each won one round, and he goes on to win the third simply because Pete gets distracted by Kitty. It stands to reason, then, that at the time the two were about equal in strength. Now, remember that after his injuries in the Morlock Massacre, Peter's strength greatly increased; that would seem to imply that he is now far stronger than the Thing. On the other hand, his enhanced strength hasn't been mentioned in years, and Ben's still basically seen as only slightly below the Hulk in physical strength. So I'll give him the nod for the strength anyway. Maybe he was just faking in the arm-wrestling thing.
The other factor is fighting skill. Cyclops worked long and hard to teach Colossus judo and other fighting skills. Ben seems to mostly just smash his way through everything. On the other hand, he probably picked up some good fighting skills in the rough days of his youth, and Peter rarely seems to use his skills beyond the "punch really hard" stage these days anyway. I'll call this part a draw.
Also, one must consider their skill with the cards. Yeah, Ben can sit at a poker table with Nick Fury, Wolverine, Cap, and She-Hulk and hold his own. On the other hand, only Pete's got the skill to consistently beat Wolverine in Gin Rummy. ("Gin, tovarisch!" "Again?!? This is flamin' embarrassin'!") I'll call this one a draw as well.
Based on all this, I've gotta give the win to Ben. Pete'll be looking around for Logan to pull a Fastball Special, but meanwhile it'll be Clobberin' Time. I mean, it'll be a *real* close fight, but I see Ben having the stamina to put Pete down. I figure they'll both be ready to drop at the end, but the Yancy Street Gang will run in at the last second and distract Pete with a firecracker or something, giving Ben the opening he needs to finish things off with a haymaker.
And if all else fails, there's the moral factor. Talk of "Petey Pureheart" notwithstanding, as far as I know Ben's never fathered any illegitimate children. He gets the nod.
Ordinarily, I try to give a fairly in-depth summary of why I think my choice would win. Comparative feats of strength, and so on. And I could probably do that here, too - Ben's list of acheivements is a heck of a lot longer than Colossus.
But no matter how I try, three words keep blocking out my cognitive process. So I'll just write them. (Chuckg will do an in-depth one anyway...)
"IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME!!!"
I think that speaks for itself.
Thank you for your time.
What more need be said?
It's clobberin' time!!!
Editor's Note: Indeed, BGH. Most in depth.