RiotGear

Cu Chulainn is also viewed as an incarnation of his father Lugh who was a warrior god king. He also led armies and women flocked to him, so he was not with out followers in his own time Even in modern times his image is still invoked by the Irish Defence Force and fighters on both sides of the conflicts in Northern Ireland. In other words regardless of how we classify him he had and still has a following among warrior peoples.

Was Grundy held in Arkham in the comics or was it just the games? Regardless the measures to hold Grundy/Rhino are going to be a lot more specialized with a lot more potential for failure then those needed to contain Swarm. For whom you'd need a box, maybe a good sized rubber made tote. Heck if his bees act anything like regular bees you could put him next to a half open window and they'd still be trapped.

They are going to have records of tactics and gear. It may not be perfect, but it's bound to be more accurate and complete then that of a race with no knowledge of our history.

So here's the thing. This seems like an easy win for the Orcs. The problem is. This is a historical reenactment. Not a fantasy one and Orcs didn't exist in the historical medieval period. So being human is alone an advantage for the Mobile Infantry. They also actually have access to Historical records of the time in question. Something that orcs do not have. So if we grade this on historical accuracy than the Mobile Infantry is going to be able to do much better than the Orcs. If it's just hand them historically appropriate equipment and have them fight it out. Well even than the M.I has a shot. There are a lot of them and they have a surprisingly heavy focus on hand to hand combat for a space fairing marine force. Coupled with more cohesion/discipline. Structured chain of command etc and likely at least a basic understanding of the weapons and tactics of the era. Given there cultures heavy focus on militaria. In other words I think the M.I has a better shot at beating Orcs on a medieval battle field then orcs do beating the M.I in terms of historical accuracy.

Do the cowboys get there cows. 'cause a cattle stampede alone could wreck the Equalists. Who don't have the fire power to scare or put down the charge. Even if the cowboys don't get there cattle. They are basically cavalry and cavalry charges normal break light infantry pretty quick. In this case it might be even worse because the infantry in question is a purely melee force, from what I remember.

I'm not sure Reaper shields are going to stop Romulan weapons. Well Romulan energy weapons anyway. Nor do they have anything to keep Romulans from beaming explosives/troops aboard there ships. Romulans should also have the edge in maneuverability and the benefits provided by cloaking technology.

I'm not sure how to treat the Poseidon here. Because if I remember right in the movie it sank in less than 24 hours. Meaning it doesn't meet the slot requirement of not being completely unsurvivable by a human-ish contender. Unless we count surviving in a life boat/piece ( such as floating on a door or table ) of the ship or even on the surface of the water it used to occupy. If a human has to stay in the ship when it sinks. I can't see survivors surviving, but if that's the case the Poseidon should lose via DQ for not qualified for this slot. So the question becomes how do treat this scenario?

What heavy hitters have been held in Arkham? People like Bane are nowhere near Rhinos weight class. Even Croc should be a couple of tiers below him strength wise. As Rhino has consistently shown the ability to hang with people like Hulk and Thing, even Juggernaut under the right circumstances.

Arkham is normally portrayed as having sealed cells, not jail bars. So while bees should be able to find a way to squeeze through, they still have to find that way. Where as Rhino just has to pick a direction and go. Also once the bees are out of there cell they are still going to have to follow the architecture of the asylum, to some degree. That is going to take the Swarm a little bit as they don't now the layout. Rhino doesn't have to worry about the layout at all. I would also expect Arkham to have lock down doors/gates etc that are going to slow down bees as they find there way around/through. On top of all that. Things like pepper spray and tear gas are actually toxic to bees. So the guards may well have a way to bring them down. Infact activating the fire suppression systems would do a number on bees as well. Speed is also good to factor in Rhino can keep pace with trains. That tend to go between 80-100mph where as the flight speed for bees is about 20mph. In other words Rhino is faster and has fewer true obstacles to work around.

I see no reason why the other inmates would try and stop him. Even if they wanted to with out prep and gear non of those mentioned above could physically detain him. Rhino is strong enough to tussle with Hulk, overpower Spider-Man, one shot trains, and punch Nova into orbit. He is also fast enough to land blows on Spider-Man and run down a train. Again with prep and the right kit Bane or Ivy could win a fight. They are not stopping him mid charge as he smashes his way out of Arkham though.

Is there anything in Arkham to stop Rhino from simply running through the nearest wall? It's largely just a brick and metal building with an iron/brick fence.

Cuchulain was a warrior prince. Bragi was a poet.

So far there have been three purposes outcomes for Gaston interacting with Elsa. Interestingly they are all victory conditions for Gaston in one way or another. Let's look at those purposed as clear wins. 1. Gaston preys on Elsa's loneliness and need for privacy, support, comfort, and family. Ends up take her to live in a rustic hunting lodge surrounded by all of that. To live out his own more mundane an insidious version of the dark side. 2. Like Fox said. Gaston basically runs the playbook against Elsa that he already did against the Beast. A situation that has proven to push Elsa to the dark side. Now for the one that people think is Gaston failing. 3. Some variation of Gaston insults Elsa and she turns him into a popsicle. So in this outcome we have our good person, our hero turning to assault, murder, or kidnapping. All because some one annoyed her. How is that not turning dark? Let's address a few other things. There seems to be consensus that Elsa would react to Gaston's sexism the way a modern woman would. I see no evidence of this in Frozen. If anything Elsa does her best to be demure, conservative, etc. She is the quite traditionalist of the sisters. Yes she loses her cool, but that is not who she wants to be. Also the idea that Arrendale is way more progressive than France because it allows for Queens. Is not really accurate. Not only do we know that Arrendale engages in colonization of the indigenous population and tries to eras there existence, but historically kingdoms that allowed queens to rule alone. We're just as sexist in every other matter as those that didn't. England has Queen, but it's noble titles can't pass to daughters and it's had queens that promised to honor and obey when they were married. In other words Gaston's world views are not going to be out of place in Arrendale. We should probably also talk about the idea that Belle's home town. Is a backwater dump, full of moronic bigots. Sure Belle says as much, but she is also an angsty 17 year old longing for adventure and magic. Every teen goes through a phase where they want to escape home and think nobody understands them. However. If you actually look at what we are shown. We see a town that supports multiple food vendors, a dress shop, a book store etc. We see a number of merchants and craftsman. Sure we see farmers and live stock as well, but the town has a bustling town square. Full of vendors. Vendors and customers exchanging currency. We also see that much of the town has enough leisure time to hang out in the tavern. They also hunt recreationally. This is not a village of dirt farmers scrapping by. This is a town of merchants and craftsman with money and time. Who read and are fairly fashion forward, based on likely time period and clothes seen. Same goes for Gaston. While a point is made to suggest he can't read. He can count and has fairly developed vocabulary. ( He uses expectorate in a sentence and uses it correctly. ), And is an accomplished hunter. Which means contrary to perception Gaston is an observant and patient person. Who can track and read clues in the environment. So chances are he simply has little interest in books. Rather than being dumb. On a related note. It's been suggested that he is a boorish brute. Likely because that is how the audience is supposed to perceived him and because Belle says so. It's already been addressed that he is well loved in universe. By a town of fairly well to do somewhat educated folks. As to how he would do in real life. With out going to into it. Because of site rules. I think it's safe to say. That a number of modern elections suggest that much of the population is drawn to candidates that the other half, would no doubt classify as boorish brutes or sexist bigots. We see this in sales tactics too. Things like aggressive salespeople and upselling work well on some and are a complete turn off for others. Then we have cults of personality around serial killers etc. Not to mention musical artist/celebrities/influencers whose fanbase hang on there every word, but whose directors describe them as morons, punks, thugs etc. Heck Gaston has a huge fanbase and there are all sorts of videos of people finding Gaston at Disney parks just how he can trash talk them. I also think the towns folk are being under estimated too. They are actually fairly friendly and understanding. Belle spends here day ignoring or trash talking them and there response. Is not something like "she reads and says mean things let's burn her as witch". Rather there worst thing they say about her is that she is odd. Same thing goes for her dad. The towns folk are by and large even tempered respectful people until Gaston steps in. As for La. The only option purposed for her so far is bond with Elsa over being a queen and turn her to world domination? Something Elsa has shown no interest in. It's also been suggested that her Royal station would be an in with Arrendale ruling class vs Gaston who is a country bumpkin. However Gaston is a white male adventuring hero from a powerful respected nation, while La is woman of color from an unknown African kingdom. With monster aids. We know how Arrendale dealt with its own indigenous population. Sadly I think Gaston's going to have an easier time making in roads than La. Now the short version. Even if Gaston incites Elsa to violence, that's a step to the dark side. We shouldn't use our own moral judgement to determine whether Gaston's leadership and charisma draw people in, because it obviously does. The citizens of Arrendale are no more enlightened than the residents of Belle's town. As evidenced by there treatment of there northern brethren. Because of those biases, her own drive for conquest, and no clear strategy. La is at a disadvantage. Even if we count the one strategy for La that has been mentioned. It means she's got one angle to come at this from vs the multiple in character approaches Gaston could use.

As militarialy gifted as Thrawn is he had problems with the politic-ing that was rampant in the Chiss military and society. As well as the bureaucracy and strict rules of engagement. To the point that he searched out greener pastures in the Imperial Navy, but he is actually a controversial and divisive figure among the Chiss. So it is highly unlikely that the powers that be would allow him command of the entire operation even if he is present. Assuming they do this is an uphill battle even for Thrawn. He doesn't have prep time. Which he thrives on Batman style. He also doesn't have much to work with art wise to figure out the Dominion. At best he has Dominion ships design, but it's unclear who in the Dominion designed the ships. Said race may not even be commanding the present forces. That's the other problem. He will have to deal with three very different style of command/tactics/strategy at different levels of the Dominion. Depending on whether he is engaging units led by the Founders, Vorta, or Jem'Hadar. He will also still be facing a vast disparity in numbers of ship, troops, and resources and they are going to be ships and troops he is unfamiliar with using tech, like transporters, that are game changers. On top of that he still has to abide by the Chiss's strict rules of engagement. Infact given there normal rules the Chiss may not be able to attack Earth or the Dominion with out being fired upon first and even if they can. They are likely to have restrictions on engaging civilian target. Of course a lot of these problems are amplified if Thrawn is not in command, but others are worse if he is. Because resentment and distrust towards him is going to screw up efficiency. So all in all. The Chiss are a smaller force, with heavy bureaucracy and internal bickering, and no answer for transporters or Founder sabotage/infiltration. Even if Thrawn can sus out Founder in his direct circle, which I'm not entirely sold on. He's not going to see them on other ships or suspect service droids, rats, spiders, atmospheric conditions etc. That's assuming the Founders don't just replace Thrawn himself while he is studying Dominion ship design. This is another case where the Dominion just has way more options, on top of way more fire power, and there win conditions are way more of a sure thing. Than maybe Thrawn is there and maybe he can cut threw the bureaucratic red tap and rules of engagement and get something done, and do it all before the Dominion does what they do best.

Agreed. Thanks for the debate. Looking forward to our next match. Should Umpire grant us such.

I can see the comparison to Hans. In some ways, but Hans was playing a part in way Gaston never did nor needed to. Gaston won't be overly saccharin nice the way Hans was. Nor like you said would Elsa want him to. Elsa is not looking for a yes man. She would however appreciate somebody who has his own life and purpose. That wants to support hers, but never loses himself. The thing about Gaston is that he doesn't have any grand scheme to take over or destroy the world. His dark side doesn't look like that. It looks like a cabin in the woods where he and Elsa are surrounded by friends and family. You going to tell me that's not going to appeal to Elsa more than murder mayhem and the conquest of Africa?

The Chiss have very strict rules of engagement. I'm not sure they'd even be allowed to fire on Earth or the Dominion. If not fired upon first. Even if they were. They are faced with the same problem the Necrons were in the Dominions last match. That is the Founders ability to infiltrate, manipulate, and sabotage the both Earth and the Chiss. Via shape shifting and transporters. Failing that. If the Dominion can't plant operatives and have to shoot it out. The Chiss Ascendency is small compared to the Dominion. Lacking both it's resources and military size. The Chiss and the Earth will both be easily over run. If the decide to fight all.

If Gaston has decided he needs to sway Elsa to his cause. It shouldn't be hard for him. Gaston is actually very clever and manipulative. With all the faults the audience perceives in him. His people and his town love him. He is also fairly creative and quick on to uptake. He went from having the town laughing at the idea of the Beast, before being shown the magic mirror, to transitioning straight into inciting a mob. When shown the mirror. He was also not slowed by the introduction of magic/the Beast. He is strong and confident. With at least an exterior sense of traditional proprietary, but also the ability to exist outside of society and relax. These things are all going to appeal to Elsa. As is the fact that he is not mustache twirling evil, bent on global domination and that he won't allow himself to be afraid of her. It's worth remembering that Belle ( who has a very particular personality ) aside Gaston was actually quite the ladies man. Gaston is going to provide a strong shoulder for Elsa to lean on, and that is what Elsa tends to look for, support. Once he's got here ear. It's gy to be easy enough to bender to his causes.

Most of La's success is based on magic, not manipulation. Even her subjects created via magic.

Most villains think they are doing the right thing.

1. What sort of technology? 2. This was an answer to the question who could kill a Spartan, not about killing the Flood. 3. Augments are multiple times faster, stronger, and smarter than humans. They can crush metal bare handed and flip between disrupter fire. Data can hold back a car trying to run him over with one hand, dodge laser fire, and move his hands at blur speed while doing precision work. Vulcans can bend metal and nerve pinch horses. Hirogen are physically more powerful than Vulcans. Not that any of those are in this match, but I guess neither are Spartans.

I think somewhere there is a disconnect in how we understand canon/continuity. I'm not entirely sure where it is. So let me try and explain myself again. When I asked for a canon example of contact between the Necrons and the Lacrymoles. I was looking for something written by and acknowledged by the owners of the 40k property. Individual games/campaigns can have there own continuity, but that does not effect the universe at large nor is Games workshop beholden to it. Going back to the Sly Marbo example. If I play a game that has him killed by a random PDF conscript. That doesn't mean I can change his wiki entry, nor is GW going to change guide books. It would also not make sense to bring up said death in a versus debate. Involving Marbo. It is the same situation, on a larger scale with the Necrons and the Lacrymoles. The fact that it could go in favor of either side. Regardless of the chances is the issue. Because what we would be talking about is possible out comes. If the Necrons and the Lacrymoles interacted rather then what did happen. Because we don't have in universe records of what happened. I've never said that there aren't things the Lacrymoles are better at. Just that when it comes to the ability to mimic others in the complete sense, down to brain waves, life signs etc, the ability to mimic complex machinery, and esoteric things like fire, fog, and energy. The Founders are better. So far you have not provided evidence to the contrary. Do we know to what level they can mimic Necrons. It could be purely cosmetic. Right circumstances. That could still briefly fool Necrons. Most of the time world leaders are not surrounded by that many people. Truth is in an invasion scenario most are going to be moved to secure bunkers etc. That would protect them under normal circumstances, but just makes them easy pickens for transporter fielding shape shifters. The Necrons are different from the Federation and do have different tech base. Which is why I provided examples of what Federation sensor tech can do. So far you have not provided evidence that suggests that Necrons have superior or even equal sensor capabilities. So as of right now it still looks like the Founders are better at fooling sensors. Also especially in fiction ( and even more so when comparing different franchises ) the age of the group doesn't necessarily mean they will be more advanced. For example Firefly is set after Star Trek the Next Generations and Space 1999 and 2001 a Space Odyssey are set 20+ years ago and we can't match there spaceflight capabilities. Do they receive sent data or is it a constant stream of all the information that any individual Necron has? Also how precise is it? Do individuals retain enough information on each other's brain waves to seek out and identify individual thoughts and memories? And once again even if Necrons are this precise. We still don't have a good gauge of how good Lacrymoles are at tricking them or Necrons and identifying said Lacrymoles. Even running around randomly poking your compatriots and superiors in a combat environment is not going to do wonders for efficiency. Nor is the discontent of thinking any one could be a Changeling. I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. Rather I think there was a misunderstanding in terminology. When I said the Dominion brought a quarter of the galaxy to heel. I meant they took it over and rules. Where as when you used it. I think you meant they held back the advances of the other powers. Which is impressive, but still not the same thing. The Dominion waged a war of conquest against 3 military power while still maintaining control of there own Quadrant and did so for the most part with a fraction of there forces and no logistical supply from there home territory. In the end it took the combined forces of the Federation, Romulan, Klingons, Cardassians, and the intervention of damn near literal gods to push the Dominion back to it previous borders. Do you wanna know how the Founders repaid the Vorta's kindest? By turning them into a bio engineered slave race. Forced to worship the Founders. The Starfleet admiralty was all for commiting genocide against the Borg, Sisko poisoned the atmosphere of an inhabited world, Klingons wear jewelry made from Jem'Hadar bones. I could go on, but the point is while Star Trek has a lighter tone that the Grimdark that is 40k all sorts horrific things are lurking below the surface. Good guys, bad guys, it doesn't matter the Dominion are the guys with more options and more win conditions.

No reason to feel like a jerk. I appreciate the apology. Though I'm not sure it's needed. You thought I was coming after you. So you stood up for yourself and I don't like the idea of some one apologizing for standing up for themselves. Standing up for yourself is also not something to feel embarrassed about. Your good. I'm also not gonna hold you to that promise. If I'm being a dick call me out on it. Here's the thing what I said about coming from different places applies to me as well. I come from a world of snark, quips, trash talk, and sarcasm. It's just how most in my circle communicate and it's not taken seriously. So it's easy for me to forgot that to some people, heck a lot of people. That sort of behavior makes you an asshole of the not endearing or charming kind. So I want a cordial debate, but thank you for calling me out and please continue to check me if I over step. I don't want your frustration to just simmer inside. That's not healthy, it's also not good for communication. As to your extra note. I hope things are going better and that you are doing the same. Again no need to feel sorry I got caught in the crossfire if anything I'm glad you had a rando on the internet to vent at so you anger didn't spill into other parts of your real life. Thanks for responding and being open to working this out. Now back to the regularly scheduled debate.

I'll get back to the discussion about which fictional space polity pew pews better latter. First though I think it's more important to try and resolve this issue. I'm am not certain what it was in my wordIng or perceived tone that offended you. However, it was not my intention to cause you any real emotional distress, anger, or frustration. The topics being discussed are not worth it. Regardless of the how's and why's. I'm sorry that I did. If you are up for explaining the how's and why's though. It might be helpful as we may end up debating against each other again. And I would rather not offend you again. This is supposed to be fun for everyone. Also I understand that you may not believe me. However remember that we all come from different backgrounds, with different tolerances and different styles of communication. So what might be an obvious slight in your eyes, is a joke or good natured ribbing to someone else. Granted I am somewhat reticent to do so, but I'll try and address your example above. When I suggested a Necron K-pop band it was an attempt at hyperbolic absurdity to point out the logical failing of the idea that anything that happens in a game of 40k is canon to the universe at large. This is also why it was brought at the same time as other more sincere examples. Consider it the silly boiled down basic version of the point. Making it easier to understand with out getting into the minutiae of game play and the universe. Also a Necron pop band is a funny visual. I hope you are ok and I hope we can sort this out.

Your such a pleasant happy person aren't you. I'm sorry people not agreeing with you makes so upset. I'm going to have to do it again though. Cause it looks like according to Games Workshop ( the company that owns 40K ) you can make your own chapter. Those rules state: "If you have created your own chapter/hive/fleet/Sept/stormhost etc..." Discussed here The K-pop things was a bit of a joke. I still naively thought we were engaged in a good natured lightheaded vs debate about fictional characters on the internet. Not a life a death struggle for the future of mankind. You may not be able to declare your units dead, but can you target your own units or get caught in the blast radius of your own weapons. You also didn't address how we deal with named characters like Sly Marbo etc who have miniatures and rules to with them. If I play a game with him and he dies. Is he dead in the 40k universe? Seriously dude, the rules outline how things could/should go down if forces meet. They do not say that those forces have met. On top of that, the same rules will allow for situations where Lacrymoles defeat Necrons. I said the Founders we're on another level because the can and do fool extensive medical screening on top of being able to turn into complex machinery, energy etc. Can the Lacrymoles do those things? As for the 40k is older so must have better tech argument. First off the Dominions not new. Second off can 40k sensors do things like isolate specific memories in a brain scan? The Necrons aren't hierarchal, but they have Overlords? The nature of the way they have spread out means that they have developed very strict and very specific rules for how to interact and whose in charge when they do. However even if they decide on shooting first and asking questions later. First off depending on the weapon the Founder may be able to fool them. Secondly it disrupts operations and not just in that brief moment. From that point on anytime a Necron believes another Necron is acting wrong they are going to start shooting each other all willy nilly. That's not good for cohesion or effective military operations. Yes the beam me Scotty transporter that can beam multiple people at a time and is on all the Dominion ships. They could beam up entire security details and staff and wipe there memories if they so choose. They could beam Jem'hadar down and wipe everybody out and leave a couple of Changelings posing as the leader in question and another survivor. Claim they fought off a Necron attack. Etc frankly the possibilities are extensive. When you've got Dominion all in one place. I'm not talking about a piece of technology, like the webway, to move there own ships. I'm talking about looking at fleets of ships they don't want around and "snapping" them out of existence with a mere thought. Let's see ways to win. Politics, subterfuge, sabotage, war..point is even if it's just two ways to win. That's twice as many as the Necron have. The Necrons only chance is to shoot there way. In battle you never want to be the side with fewer options. So the Imperium and the Eldar have signed peace accords and no longer fight each other? The Orks aren't still making WAAAGH on everybody? Has the grimdark future of the 41 millennium finally found peace? The Necrons took over the Imperium? And destroyed the Tyranids? I don't think that happened. As to your bit about how the Dominion doesn't war. Grimderp 40k fanboying. Both these groups know war. The Founders faced genocide in there early days and have done so to others. The Jem'Hadar are bred and engineered not to surrender etc. The only side bringing something to the table the other, as far we can tell, has never dealt with is the Dominion, with regard to there shape shifting and infiltration abilities.