Deadliest Warriors:Predators(Yautja) vs Elites(Sangheili)

[Guest force_echo]

The output of the rifle is less than a lightning bolt, but anyway, in terms of heat, even the lightning wins. It generally heats up the air by tens of thousands of degrees Fahrenheit, so assuming that only a few grams of air, then it's still tens of kilojoules.

 

 

 

And according to Bungie themselves, Covenant plasma is not normal plasma, but some exotic shit, as supported by Halo Reach's cutscene in Nights of Solstice.

Yes but the plasma diffuses within microseconds, you don't see people who have survived being struck by lightning with parts of their body melted off do you? They die because the electrical current shorts out the sinoaterial node and perkinje fibers of the heart, the heart cannot sent electrical impulses= the heart does not ebat. If your heart does not beat, you die. This has nothing to do with heat, or anything. So the Predator surviving the lightning bolt has nothing to do with surviving the millions of degrees celsius, it could be luck, it could be that the Predator's heart is stronger, it could be that the mesh grounded the predator, hell, since we don't know the specificities of an alien body, it could mean that its heart somehow dosen't operate on electrical impulses. My point is, the lightning debate really has nothing to do with a Covenant weapon.

[Skirmisher]

Also, of note is that if the Lightning doesn't pass though the heart then none of that matters... There's a simple trick to surviving deadly currents if you happen to touch them. Make sure that when you do touch them you do not make a path to ground with your heart in the way.

 

If you touch the current with your left hand, then you make the shortest path through your left foot. It's that simple.

 

Not only that but Lightning =/= Plasma Weapon.

 

This is a Plasma Torch.

 

 

It operates along the Exact Same line of thought that a Plasma Weapon would. The only difference is that Plasma Weapons in fiction have some sort of mechanism to turn that short spurt of Blindingly Hot Plasma into a ball or bolt of death. With very little effort a Modern Plasma Torch can effortlessly cut through inches of Steel Plate.

 

Lightning cannot cut through steel plate, ergo, all this talk about f***ing Lightning is invalid.

[Guest Red Blue Blur]

??? I was kinda hoping for the entire thing...

 

Specifically face =/= head. So, I dunno where you are saying "melted face" means "melted head".

 

Or wait, wasn't this Elite in some sort of grappled with the MC? Why then, are we taking it as a given that it's attemptint go "claw at nothing" at it's face? Given that it was just, you know, shot in the face, it could be "clawing at nothing" in a blinded attempted to harm the MC. Or the pain from being shot in the face made it literalyl claw at nothing, ie it was waving it's arms around in a death knell before finally dying.

 

So I don't see where it's established that its entire head was gone.

So there is no actual proof that it blew his hea off. The elite was shot in the head then swung his arms in an attempt to hit MC. Like I have sadi from the beginning. In this set up with low numbers in a jungle evironment the preds have the advantage and weapons equal to the elites most destructive (fuel rod, which the elites only have one of)

 

Predators win in this match up!

[Skirmisher]

So there is no actual proof that it blew his hea off.

There is plenty, you are just to daft to see it.

 

 

The elite was shot in the head then swung his arms in an attempt to hit MC.

Nope, it was kicked away from the Chief, and attempted to raise it's arms up to ward the shot away from it's head... however the Head disappeared before it's hands got there. The nerve impulses though kept on truckin, raising it's hands to where it's head used to be. But at the end of that action the last pulses of activity were of the pain of having it's head melted off, therefore making it's hands claw in pain at the Head that was no more.

 

 

Like I have sadi from the beginning. In this set up with low numbers in a jungle evironment the preds have the advantage and weapons equal to the elites most destructive (fuel rod, which the elites only have one of)

Nope, the Elites weapons are Much more then capable of easily dispatching a Predator. As well, the Environment and their Cloaks would be of no use.

 

 

Predators win in this match up!

If RedBlueBlur hates an idea, it needs to be implemented yesterday. That guy is pretty much a litmus test for suck.

[Guest force_echo]

That was a burn. You gonna take that RBB?

[Guest Red Blue Blur]

That was a burn. You gonna take that RBB?

not really. Skirmisher still hasnt proven how jungle hunters using a cloaking device that the Elites have been proven not to see using weapons equal to the best a single elite has to offer will win here. ThePredators in this set up have the suprerior weapons, advantage in terrain, advantage in tech, advantage in strategy, and advantage in guerilla warfare here. The only attribute the Elites have that the Preds dont are there shields but seeing a how Dlex has been shown to be similar to adamantium I dont see it making a difference. Time and again Skirmisher has been disproven but refuses to acknowledge it. Through out the 11 pages of debate Skirmisher constantly provides speculation upon assumptions. Ricry has provided facts backed by more facts. Ruinus has pointed out multiple situations disproving Skirm as well and yet he responds with more assumptions. As far as I can tell very little of what has been said in favor of the Elites is proven fact. Most is only speculation by Skirm with no REAL evidence other than hear say. With more factual proof in favor of the Preds again I say they win.

 

I'll concede that in an all out War the Elites would win but this is guerilla style warfare in this situation the Preds have just about every advantage here.

 

and you echo never actual provide anything useful. You ride the coat tails of whoever is debating in your favor and just reitterate there points. So you have no room to talk.

[Indolent]

Just to point out, RBB, only Plasma Grade Dlex is close to Primary Adamantium, as per Rakai. Not all Dlex is the same as Primary Adamantium.

[Skirmisher]

Red Blue Blur, you're one to talk. "Riding Coat Tails" is something you do best, oh and don't forget the sniveling brown nosing your doing. Most of the time I don't really know if this is actually your opinion or just the flavor of the month for you. And Routinely you have been thought the Worst debater on this discussion.

 

Rice had a nice game early on in this debate, but the longer it dragged on, the more his arguments started to fall apart. Again and again, I disproved his Assumptions, and the same to your own. Ruinus only points out a different and rather odd way of looking at one scene from the book. And yet it looks like your nose is fully wedged between their cheeks.

 

Your own point is also rather invalid too. Out of all Predator lore, That is the ONLY scene that can support you? Is there more? Actually, remind me if you actually posted the quote from the book about all that happening.

 

All your argument has been about is how one Pred tossed a couple towers, and then you started comparing Elites to the Thai Army... And not only that but you have not proven ANYTHING about what type of Caster he was using. For all we know, he could have been given one of those fabled Super Plasma Casters that can actually do that kind of stuff.

 

All other plasma Casters Everywhere in the fiction have operated at the same level that I am assuming (Max) to what we've seen in the Predator Movies (Min). Going from melting a head off, to being stopped by a 3mm steel plate. Note that that Steel feat would actually not be a good thing, if it were at the temp of Covie plasma the plate would have liquefied, causing further damage.

[Guest ricrery]

Rice had a nice game early on in this debate, but the longer it dragged on, the more his arguments started to fall apart.

 

Alright, then let's get back to that.

 

1) So, according to you, we can take Bungie's word when they make a vague statement for a nonexistent piece of work with an unknown canon rating, but we must take it that Bungie, the creators of Halo, were wrong with their own numbers when stating the output of a Covenant plasma rifle. That seems rather impossible when they can't be, because, surprise, they aren't limited by anything with words, and that would show what they think of firepower more clearly than anything else.

 

2) Halo makes use of 7.62 NATO rounds, which would make 20-45 kJ standard weapons insane. Take

for example. Forge fires for just over a second on the Elite when the shields apparently fail. Going by Halopedia, the MA5B has a RoF of 15 rounds per second, so around 20 rounds hit the Arbiter. Assuming a 9.4 gram mass like the other MA5 bullets, and a muzzle velocity of 905 m/s (which would be dumb unless the UNSC were actually stupid enough to replace the MA5B with the inferior 32 round MA5 variants), we get 77,000 J as our final energy. This would impressive if the Covenant couldn't take it down in one volley and kill the shielded individual. Even if you believe the shields weren't down until after he used his pistol, there is still no room for 20-45 kJ plasma bolts in this scene.

 

A) Miranda fires two SMGs at the Arbiter in Halo 2, and within 4 seconds (120 bullets), or 72,000 J going by Halopedia's specs. The yield is quite consistent with that of the Halo Wars scene.

 

3) According to Halo The Fall of Reach, plasma rifles can melt a noticeable amount of titanium off Spartan MJOLNIR armor, yet in the game, it does no visible damage to Noble Six's armor. Another kick to the teeth for 45 kJ bolts.

[Indolent]

3) According to Halo The Fall of Reach, plasma rifles can melt a noticeable amount of titanium off Spartan MJOLNIR armor, yet in the game, it does no visible damage to Noble Six's armor. Another kick to the teeth for 45 kJ bolts.

You clearly see blood spurting out of his body when he's hit by the bolts yet we see no physical damage or openings done to the armor. How is this quantifiable?

[Guest ricrery]

You clearly see blood spurting out of his body when he's hit by the bolts yet we see no physical damage or openings done to the armor. How is this quantifiable?

 

There were openings?

[Indolent]

There were openings?

Are you being snarky with me?

[Guest ricrery]

Are you being snarky with me?

 

Possibly.

[Guest Red Blue Blur]

Red Blue Blur, you're one to talk. "Riding Coat Tails" is something you do best, oh and don't forget the sniveling brown nosing your doing. Most of the time I don't really know if this is actually your opinion or just the flavor of the month for you. And Routinely you have been thought the Worst debater on this discussion.

 

Rice had a nice game early on in this debate, but the longer it dragged on, the more his arguments started to fall apart. Again and again, I disproved his Assumptions, and the same to your own. Ruinus only points out a different and rather odd way of looking at one scene from the book. And yet it looks like your nose is fully wedged between their cheeks.

 

Your own point is also rather invalid too. Out of all Predator lore, That is the ONLY scene that can support you? Is there more? Actually, remind me if you actually posted the quote from the book about all that happening.

 

All your argument has been about is how one Pred tossed a couple towers, and then you started comparing Elites to the Thai Army... And not only that but you have not proven ANYTHING about what type of Caster he was using. For all we know, he could have been given one of those fabled Super Plasma Casters that can actually do that kind of stuff.

 

All other plasma Casters Everywhere in the fiction have operated at the same level that I am assuming (Max) to what we've seen in the Predator Movies (Min). Going from melting a head off, to being stopped by a 3mm steel plate. Note that that Steel feat would actually not be a good thing, if it were at the temp of Covie plasma the plate would have liquefied, causing further damage.

First of, how was I riding coat tails? I provided my own proof and facts that had nothing to do with any one elses favoring the preds. Strike 1

 

Second, worst debater by YOU because why? You havent disproven the facts. You have used assumptions. Strike 2

 

Third, I never compared the Elites to the Thai army. That was you. I just pointed out that a single Pred took out 150 soildiers single handidly with mostly blades. Also I stated repeatedly that he is using your basic plasma caster. Strike 3

 

YOUR OUT and the Preds will STILL win in this set up.

[Stranglehold-prime]

I do not mean to bump this thread, but I want proof that Plasma Grade Dlex=to Adamantium.

[Guest Red Blue Blur]

I do not mean to bump this thread, but I want proof that Plasma Grade Dlex=to Adamantium.

there is no real way to prove it. They are both just said to be unbreakable.

[Indolent]

Adamantium has far more feats than Plasma Grade Dlex so one could say that its harder than Plasma Grade Dlex, though its not far behind.

[Guest Red Blue Blur]

Adamantium has far more feats than Plasma Grade Dlex so one could say that its harder than Plasma Grade Dlex, though its not far behind.

I could go for that. It sounds reasonable.

[Skirmisher]

First of, how was I riding coat tails? I provided my own proof and facts that had nothing to do with any one elses favoring the preds. Strike 1

Yes, you only cling to one small source. If you actually want to support your Theories come to the table with Multiple feats. So far, the Majority of Proper Feats shown in Multiple Movies (which due to their visual medium are superior at portraying scenes then Books or even Comics), throws your "Blowing up a Tower" into question.

 

Not only that, but you just dodged my Question about actually giving a quote from that book.

 

 

Second, worst debater by YOU because why? You havent disproven the facts. You have used assumptions. Strike 2

You don't go on Mibbit much, do you...

 

As for Disproving stuff, I do it routinely, like for instance Rice's post just after mine is mostly invalid due to the fact that Movies always >>> other sources in a Canon Hierarchy, He forgot to add in the fact that not only was the Arbiter shot with a second or two of MA5 rounds, he was also almost crushed by the Slip Drive, and had a full clip of M6 ammo pumped into his hand at point blank. And his last point is the icing on the cake of invalid as it relies on Game Mechanics, which are Non-Canon.

 

As for my assumptions, most of them are backed up if you were actually smart enough to reason it through.

 

 

Third, I never compared the Elites to the Thai army. That was you. I just pointed out that a single Pred took out 150 soildiers single handidly with mostly blades. Also I stated repeatedly that he is using your basic plasma caster. Strike 3

 

YOUR OUT and the Preds will STILL win in this set up.

No, you routinely try to obfuscate the issue by pointing out a rather ho-hum feat, of panicking into the hearts of superstitions jungle peoples, who were fighting at what I believe to be night, in the dark, against a creature that moves faster and hits harder then a regular human... Something that could easily be described as a Demon, and thus turn their Panic into full on Terror.

 

You would be surprised how easy it is to win a battle if you utterly annihilate the Morale of the enemy and send them into a Terrified Panic. Lambs to the Slaughter, like Lambs to the Slaughter.

[Guest Red Blue Blur]

Yes, you only cling to one small source. If you actually want to support your Theories come to the table with Multiple feats. So far, the Majority of Proper Feats shown in Multiple Movies (which due to their visual medium are superior at portraying scenes then Books or even Comics), throws your "Blowing up a Tower" into question.

 

Not only that, but you just dodged my Question about actually giving a quote from that book.

 

 

 

You don't go on Mibbit much, do you...

 

As for Disproving stuff, I do it routinely, like for instance Rice's post just after mine is mostly invalid due to the fact that Movies always >>> other sources in a Canon Hierarchy, He forgot to add in the fact that not only was the Arbiter shot with a second or two of MA5 rounds, he was also almost crushed by the Slip Drive, and had a full clip of M6 ammo pumped into his hand at point blank. And his last point is the icing on the cake of invalid as it relies on Game Mechanics, which are Non-Canon.

 

As for my assumptions, most of them are backed up if you were actually smart enough to reason it through.

 

 

 

No, you routinely try to obfuscate the issue by pointing out a rather ho-hum feat, of panicking into the hearts of superstitions jungle peoples, who were fighting at what I believe to be night, in the dark, against a creature that moves faster and hits harder then a regular human... Something that could easily be described as a Demon, and thus turn their Panic into full on Terror.

 

You would be surprised how easy it is to win a battle if you utterly annihilate the Morale of the enemy and send them into a Terrified Panic. Lambs to the Slaughter, like Lambs to the Slaughter.

I didnt dodge your request for a quote. Im simply just not going to type an entire chapter. Either read Predator South China Sea or look it up yourself. I know it to be true and its in written form. Do your own research.

 

Also most things you post are your opinion and not fact so I disregard your assumptions on matters seeing as how it isnt backed on proof. In Predator Turnabout a Predator shoots a passenger jet out of the sky with his plasma caster. Another feat that proves its at minimum an equal to the fuel rod.

 

There are multiple examples of Pred feats and you dont get to declare what is more cannon for a character. In your logic movies are cannon first so technically ALL halo feats could be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Like I have stated all along that the way the set up has placed the preds in the environment with the weapons they have here they win.

[Guest ricrery]

As for Disproving stuff, I do it routinely, like for instance Rice's post just after mine is mostly invalid due to the fact that Movies always >>> other sources in a Canon Hierarchy

 

Wrong. The norms for other universes is not relevant to Halo, and therefor there is no evidence the movies are higher canon than games, movies, or even propaganda. You will require ACTUAL evidence the movies are canon at all, and given that your claims require us to ignore a much more descriptive calculation made by Bungie themselves, it won't be as much of a victory at all.

 

1) He forgot to add in the fact that not only was the Arbiter shot with a second or two of MA5 rounds, 2) he was also almost crushed by the Slip Drive, and 3) had a full clip of M6 ammo pumped into his hand at point blank. 4) And his last point is the icing on the cake of invalid as it relies on Game Mechanics, which are Non-Canon.

 

1) Yes I did.

 

2) Oh, and that would effect his shields how much?

 

3) Yes I did.

 

4) Wrong. That's counts as a cutscene, therefor it's higher canon than anything else. Unless you want to argue EVERY cutscene in the Halo series is noncanon because they use game mechanics?

[Skirmisher]

therefor there is no evidence the movies are higher canon than games, movies, or even propaganda.

Name one universe that does not put it's own movies above it's games, books and supplemental material.

 

All you have is an Assumption, based on a lack of evidence. And since your Whole Point stands on this, you are dragging it through the dirt with this utter bullshit.

 

If Bungie or whoever has the rights to Halo decides to make a Movie, then that movie would be at the Very Top of canon. Why? Because you can make the Movie much more closer to how the universe should look then in Games, you can actually show how the universe acts better then Books, and well, who cares about supplementary material.

 

It's the Natural Order of the Universe to have Movies at a higher Tier then Games, Books and extras.

 

 

1) Yes I did.

 

2) Oh, and that would effect his shields how much?

 

3) Yes I did.

 

4) Wrong. That's counts as a cutscene, therefor it's higher canon than anything else. Unless you want to argue EVERY cutscene in the Halo series is noncanon because they use game mechanics?

1) You're being asinine with this point. Rather then shove your little points into my quote, try actually Reading it.

 

2) IDK? Like being rammed by a tank?

 

3) No, actually you didn't.

 

4) Nope, not in the slightest. All Halo cutscenes are modeled on the Game Engine. The only things in the Halo games that are actually Canon is the General Story, almost everything else is either Non-Canon or Iffy.

[Guest ricrery]

1) Name one universe that does not put it's own movies above it's games, books and supplemental material.

 

Um... Well, that's not important, given that Bungie never stated where the movie would rank, and given that they outright stated the damned yield of plasma weapons, it should be abundantly clear what they consider Covenant weapons to be like.

 

1) All you have is an Assumption, based on a lack of evidence. And since your Whole Point stands on this, you are dragging it through the dirt with this utter bullshit.

 

2) If Bungie or whoever has the rights to Halo decides to make a Movie, then that movie would be at the Very Top of canon. Why? Because you can make the Movie much more closer to how the universe should look then in Games, you can actually show how the universe acts better then Books, and well, who cares about supplementary material.

 

3) It's the Natural Order of the Universe to have Movies at a higher Tier then Games, Books and extras.

 

1) Don't ever, ever state someone else is making an assumption with no backing evidence while you're in this position. You have no evidence that the movie would be higher canon than the games and instead are making an assumption that it would based on the norms of other universes.

 

2) Given that they clearly tell us the actual yield, it's quite clear they want to show how it powerful it would actually look.

 

1) You're being asinine with this point. Rather then shove your little points into my quote, try actually Reading it.

 

2) IDK? Like being rammed by a tank?

 

3) No, actually you didn't.

 

4) Nope, not in the slightest. All Halo cutscenes are modeled on the Game Engine. The only things in the Halo games that are actually Canon is the General Story, almost everything else is either Non-Canon or Iffy.

 

1) Wow, your point must be more complicated than I thought, elaborate.

 

2) And that has how much KE?

 

3) Yes I did, actually. I said even if you believe the shields weren't down until after he used his pistol, there is still no room for 20-45 kJ plasma bolts in this scene.

 

4) Then you've lost me completely. Bungie said that games are high canon. Obviously game mechanics don't count, but cutscenes clearly do.

[RakaiThwei]

Name one universe that does not put it's own movies above it's games, books and supplemental material.

 

Capcom. SNK. Namco. Twentieth Century Fox. Terminator.

 

....I'm just bein' a dick, dude. Just for laughs.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Skirmisher]

Um... Well, that's not important, given that Bungie never stated where the movie would rank, and given that they outright stated the damned yield of plasma weapons, it should be abundantly clear what they consider Covenant weapons to be like.

No, because every number they give out in any book seems to contradict everything else. It's easy to see how they could screw up a simple formula when you have to juggle the Rate of Fire into it. I believe they didn't go that far.

 

 

1) Don't ever, ever state someone else is making an assumption with no backing evidence while you're in this position. You have no evidence that the movie would be higher canon than the games and instead are making an assumption that it would based on the norms of other universes.

 

2) Given that they clearly tell us the actual yield, it's quite clear they want to show how it powerful it would actually look.

1) Same to you. You don't know their stance on Movies, and you have the rather idiotic assumption that the Movie would be Lower then the Games and Books. Even though EVERYTHING in it would be Canon, as it does not use Game Mechanics. My Assumption is much, much more founded, as based on almost all other works that have movies (Except for the very few that Rekai posted) Movies hold much more prestige then other works of the same universe.

 

3) What happened to your third point?

 

 

1) Wow, your point must be more complicated than I thought, elaborate.

 

2) And that has how much KE?

 

3) Yes I did, actually. I said even if you believe the shields weren't down until after he used his pistol, there is still no room for 20-45 kJ plasma bolts in this scene.

 

4) Then you've lost me completely. Bungie said that games are high canon. Obviously game mechanics don't count, but cutscenes clearly do.

1) The whole thing, read it like I wrote it, one full sentence.

 

2) IDK how heavy a Slip Drive is, presumably it's rather heavy as it required an Elephant to carry it.

 

3) His shields weren't down as we saw no damage to his actual hand from having that entire clip pumped into it, and his shields never regenerated as we never saw that happen.

 

4) No... Bungie is absolutely 100% Correct in stating that the Games are the Highest Tier of existing works... But only their Story. Game Mechanics and therefore Everything But the Story, is therefor Non-Canon.