Canadian Fight

[Guest force_echo]

http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....showtopic=13111

 

 

just sayin' ...

You know, there's this tiny little thing people take into account called fighting skill, its how Spiderman beats Venom. And how wolverine has beaten almost every single person on this list. I understand where you're coming from with comic mechanics about the popular character winning, and the good guy always winning and etc. But there's an extent to where you can carry this, to where you threaten invalidating nearly half the feats the character has under his belt. That being said, I still think Wendigo takes this, the guy has taken on the Hulk and Wolverine at the same time and came out of it.

[Guest sirmethos]

You know, there's this tiny little thing people take into account called fighting skill, its how Spiderman beats Venom. And how wolverine has beaten almost every single person on this list. I understand where you're coming from with comic mechanics about the popular character winning, and the good guy always winning and etc. But there's an extent to where you can carry this, to where you threaten invalidating nearly half the feats the character has under his belt. That being said, I still think Wendigo takes this, the guy has taken on the Hulk and Wolverine at the same time and came out of it.

 

 

Wolverine has so much more skill than the Hulk that it's not even funny, but do you see anyone(except die hard fanboys), saying Wolverine can take Hulk?

 

no, why, because Hulk is simply so physically superior that superior skills don't bridge the gap.

 

the same goes for Wendigo and Sasquatch.

 

for Sabretooth, the skill gap is Much smaller, and thus, the skill gap does Still not bridge the gap. Sabretooth is physically superior in every way, with his healing factor being only slightly lower.

 

 

for Guardian, Wolverine would probably be able to take him in a straight up fight, but Guardian can fly, Wolverine can't. that's a pretty big gap right there.

[Guest force_echo]

Wolverine has so much more skill than the Hulk that it's not even funny, but do you see anyone(except die hard fanboys), saying Wolverine can take Hulk?

 

no, why, because Hulk is simply so physically superior that superior skills don't bridge the gap.

 

the same goes for Wendigo and Sasquatch.

 

for Sabretooth, the skill gap is Much smaller, and thus, the skill gap does Still not bridge the gap. Sabretooth is physically superior in every way, with his healing factor being only slightly lower.

 

 

for Guardian, Wolverine would probably be able to take him in a straight up fight, but Guardian can fly, Wolverine can't. that's a pretty big gap right there.

Comparing Hulk vs. Wolverine to Sabretooth vs. Wolverine is like comparing Sentry vs. Spiderman to Venom vs. Spiderman. And, Wolverine actually DID fight Hulk, it wasn;t an instant stomp like you are suggesting, Wolverine actually messed Hulk up pretty bad. As for Sabretooth vs. Wolverine, tell that to the comics in which Wolverine beats Sabretooth 7/10 times. We can only assume that Wolverine's skill bridges the SMALL, if any, gap in physical capabilities (I don't even know where you're getting the gap in the first place), from what we've seen in comics. And before you go again with the comics mechanics argument, Sabretooth HAS beaten Wolverine before (Wolverine just wins most of the time), a number of bad guys have beaten Wolverine before. So that "good guys always when so comics are an unreliable source" shit is not working.

[Guest sirmethos]

Comparing Hulk vs. Wolverine to Sabretooth vs. Wolverine is like comparing Sentry vs. Spiderman to Venom vs. Spiderman. And, Wolverine actually DID fight Hulk, it wasn;t an instant stomp like you are suggesting, Wolverine actually messed Hulk up pretty bad. As for Sabretooth vs. Wolverine, tell that to the comics in which Wolverine beats Sabretooth 7/10 times. We can only assume that Wolverine's skill bridges the SMALL, if any, gap in physical capabilities (I don't even know where you're getting the gap in the first place), from what we've seen in comics. And before you go again with the comics mechanics argument, Sabretooth HAS beaten Wolverine before (Wolverine just wins most of the time), a number of bad guys have beaten Wolverine before. So that "good guys always when so comics are an unreliable source" shit is not working.

 

 

i'm getting the gap from Sabretooth and Wolverines stated powers.

 

 

physically, Wolverine is a Peak Human, bordering on superhuman due to his Healing Factor.

 

while Sabretooth is just plain Superhuman, 10+ tons strength(after his last enhancement), superhuman speed, reflexes and agility.

 

 

even in his early showings, Sabretooth was strong enough to crush a metal ball with his bare hands.

 

 

as for Wolverine beating Sabretooth in the comics. i'll refer you to the link i posted a bit earlier.

[Guest force_echo]

Wolverine has been shown to break out of steel chains and lift cars depending on the writer. Thats a strength of 2-3 tons. I've never recalled Sabretooth having 10+ ton strength. Didn't seem to do him much good when Wolverine killed him.

[CanisMax]

I'm pretty sure that the McKenzie brothers win this fight by some means.

[Guest sirmethos]

Wolverine has been shown to break out of steel chains and lift cars depending on the writer. Thats a strength of 2-3 tons. I've never recalled Sabretooth having 10+ ton strength. Didn't seem to do him much good when Wolverine killed him.

 

http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....showtopic=13111

[comic_book_fan]

how, exactly, is Wolverine going to win this one?

 

every single character on the list is physically superior to Wolverine.

because he is smarter and a better fighter then everyone on the list and in that hulk vs wolverine vs Wendigo

it was wolverine who beat wendigo . well maybe not smarter then sasquatch .

still bears are stronger then wolverines but i have seen a wolverine fight off 2 bears at the same time i don't see how this will be much different.

[Guest sirmethos]

because he is smarter and a better fighter then everyone on the list and in that hulk vs wolverine vs Wendigo

it was wolverine who beat wendigo . well maybe not smarter then sasquatch .

still bears are stronger then wolverines but i have seen a wolverine fight off 2 bears at the same time i don't see how this will be much different.

 

a bear is not 100+ times stronger than Wolverine, or even 20+ times stronger.

 

which everyone on of the characters actually is.

[comic_book_fan]

a bear is not 100+ times stronger than Wolverine, or even 20+ times stronger.

 

which everyone on of the characters actually is.

no i did not mean wolverine vs a bear i mean a wolverine vs a bear but never mind that it would take me far to long to get you to see where i was going with that.

but the fight could go either way it's just wolverine is my pick.

[Guest sirmethos]

no i did not mean wolverine vs a bear i mean a wolverine vs a bear but never mind that it would take me far to long to get you to see where i was going with that.

but the fight could go either way it's just wolverine is my pick.

 

my point about the strength difference works with a wolverine vs. a bear as well.

 

 

as bear is nowhere near 20+ times stronger than a wolverine, and definitely not 100+ times stronger.

[Guest force_echo]

http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....showtopic=13111

Ok, I'm honestly sick and tired of this shit. Who says "comic mechanics" don't apply to CBUB? You, the great and mighty Sirmethos? A feat is a feat regardless. I could see PIS because it only happens once in a while, but this bullshit comic mechanic argument seems to apply to half the feats in MArvel, and entire characters. Example: Do you really think Captain America can beat Onslaught and Hulk? No, but he beats those caliber characters in almost every other comic he's in. The same with Wolverine, half of the people he fights should logically beat the living hell out of him, but guess what? This is a site arguing comic book battles and thats just how Wolverine is. Like ir or not, some people on this site actually like comic books, and aren't willing to throw them out of the window. Some people don't wanna debate based on wikipedia statistics like you do, so stop using that thread as an excuse to not come up with a viable argument, stop using it as some godly weapon that instantly voids the other person's argument. Come up with an actual argument and then I'll bite.

[Guest account01]

I dont think Sabretooth is even Canadian

[Guest sirmethos]

Ok, I'm honestly sick and tired of this shit. Who says "comic mechanics" don't apply to CBUB? You, the great and mighty Sirmethos? A feat is a feat regardless. I could see PIS because it only happens once in a while, but this bullshit comic mechanic argument seems to apply to half the feats in MArvel, and entire characters. Example: Do you really think Captain America can beat Onslaught and Hulk? No, but he beats those caliber characters in almost every other comic he's in. The same with Wolverine, half of the people he fights should logically beat the living hell out of him, but guess what? This is a site arguing comic book battles and thats just how Wolverine is. Like ir or not, some people on this site actually like comic books, and aren't willing to throw them out of the window. Some people don't wanna debate based on wikipedia statistics like you do, so stop using that thread as an excuse to not come up with a viable argument, stop using it as some godly weapon that instantly voids the other person's argument. Come up with an actual argument and then I'll bite.

 

i don't use "wikipedia statistics", i use the stated Powers and Abilities for the characters.

 

ie. the powers that Marvel has Stated that Wolverine and Sabretooth has.

 

 

if you look real closely, you'll see that the point of pages like cbub, is to find out how fights would actually turn out. ie. if they did Not happen in comics, where things like popularity, plot importance, hero/villain, and a ton of other things are in play.

 

 

 

there's no need to start raging just because you can't come up with any logical way for your favorite to win. but given the stated Powers and Abilities of the characters in this particular 'match'. Wolverine would get beaten.

 

 

i don't "throw comics out the window", comics are the only way to determine Feats of a character(when the Powers and Abilities are too close to make a decision right away), but you need to keep in mind that the Feats in comics are affected by more than just the Powers and Abilities of the characters. thus, Spider-Man lifting way more than his powers actually says he can, is not a viable feat.

 

for the same reason, Captain America beating someone like Onslaught or Magneto, would not be a viable feat either. because whether he has done it in a comic or not, everyone knows that in an Actual fight, Captain America would get ripped apart.

 

and yes, Comics Mechanics do apply to half the feats in any comics universe. that's the general nature of comics. they are written with a Plot in mind, they are affected by Character Popularity, the Hero of the story always wins In the End. the Villain always Loses in the End. overly powerful characters Never use their full potential, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

just because you don't like Comics Mechanics, doesn't mean that they don't exist. just like PIS still exists whether you like it or not. and raging about it doesn't change that.

[Guest sirmethos]

as for this

Come up with an actual argument and then I'll bite.

 

 

Wolverine's stated powers: "Wolverine is a mutant who possesses the ability to regenerate damaged or destroyed areas of his cellular structure at a rate far greater than that of an ordinary human. The speed at which this healing factor works varies in direct proportion with the severity of the damage Wolverine suffers. For example, he can fully recover from an ordinary gunshot wound in a non-vital area of his body within minutes, but it took him almost two months to fully recover from injuries sustained in a duel with Lord Shingen, which included one from a sword that went all the way through his trunk.

 

Wolverine’s natural healing also affords him virtual immunity to poisons and most drugs, as well as an enhanced resistance to diseases. For example, it is nearly impossible for him to become intoxicated from drinking alcohol. He also has a limited immunity to the fatigue poisons generated by bodily activity, and hence he has greater endurance than an ordinary human. His agility and reflexes are similarly enhanced.

 

In addition, Wolverine’s healing factor provides him with an extended lifespan by slowing the effects of the aging process. Although over a century old, Wolverine is as healthy and physically fit as a man in his prime.

 

Wolverine also possesses superhumanly acute senses, making him capable of seeing things at a maximum distance greater than a normal human’s. His hearing is enhanced in a similar manner, and he is able to recognize people and objects by scent, even if that person or object is hidden. Wolverine can use these enhanced senses to track any creature with an impressive degree of success.

 

Wolverine’s skeleton includes six retractable one-foot long bone claws, three in each arm, that are housed beneath the skin and muscle of his forearms. Wolverine can, at will, release these slightly curved claws through his skin beneath the knuckles on each hand. The skin between the knuckles tears and bleeds, but the blood loss is quickly halted by his healing factor. Wolverine can unsheathe any number of his claws at once, although he must keep his wrists straight at the moment his claws shoot from his forearms into his hands. When unsheathed, the claws are fully within his hands, and thus Wolverine can still bend his wrists. The claws are naturally sharp and tougher than that of normal human bone structure, allowing Wolverine to cut through most types of flesh and natural materials."

 

 

please note, no mention of any Superhuman capabilities aside from Senses and Healing Factor/Stamina.

 

 

 

Sabretooth: "Sabretooth is a mutant possessing various superhuman attributes that are the result of genetic mutation and artificial enhancement. Sabretooth's primary mutant power is an accelerated healing factor that enables him to regenerate damaged or destroyed tissue with far greater speed and efficiency than an ordinary human. Sabretooth can fully heal from injuries that result in massive tissue and blood loss such as multiple gunshots, slashes, puncture wounds, and severe burns within only a few minutes. This mutant healing factor also renders Sabretooth highly resistant, possibly even totally immune, to disease. Sabretooth's healing powers, also, render him immune to most drugs and toxins, except within massive doses. sabretooth can lift [press] 118 tons. Sabretooth ages much slower than an ordinary human. Despite having a much greater chronological age, Sabretooth possesses the appearance and vitality of a man in the physical prime of his life. All of Sabretooth's natural mutant abilities stem from, at least partially, his accelerated healing factor.when sabretooth goes feral his brute strength increases without limit.

 

Sabretooth possesses superhumanly acute senses of sight, hearing, smell, and taste - although perhaps not of touch - comparable to those of certain animals, allowing him to track prey similar to the way dogs and wolves do. His night vision is preternaturally sensitive, containing twice the average human being’s area of light-gathering retina, and extends into the infrared portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. His hearing is extraordinarily acute, able to detect light breathing in a cave at 200 feet. His sense of taste can detect 1 part of foreign matter in 10,000. His highly developed olfactory sense and memory allow him to detect and track a scent over eight hours old, possibly a concentration of 20 parts per million, that he had not been exposed to for up to several months previously. Dilute, common odors of perspiration, perfumes, cigarettes, candies, and food are beacons to his senses.

 

Many of Sabretooth's physical abilities function with superhuman levels of efficiency. He possesses some degree of superhuman strength, the limits of which are unknown. Originally, Sabretooth possessed sufficient physical strength to crush an iron barbell, with ease. Sabretooth has undergone various procedures, some willingly and some unwillingly, that have increased his strength considerably beyond his original levels. Sabretooth's mutant healing factor grants him much greater immunity to the lactic acids generated by his muscles during physical activity than the musculature of an ordinary human. Hence, Sabretooth possesses superhuman stamina in all physical activities. His natural agility and reflexes are enhanced to levels that are beyond the natural limits of the human body. Sabretooth's agility and reaction time are superior to those of the finest human athlete. "

 

 

please note the Bolded parts, directly stating Superhuman capabilities.

 

 

 

now for their Abilities/Skills:

 

 

Wolverine: "Due to his extensive training as a soldier, a C.I.A. operative, a samurai, a spy, and a member of the X-Men, Wolverine is an exceptional hand-to-hand combatant, having mastered virtually every fighting style on Earth. He is also a trained expert in multiple types of weapons, vehicles, computer systems, explosives, and assassination techniques. Wolverine is fluent in many languages, including Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Cheyenne, Lakota, and Spanish; he has some knowledge of French, Thai, and Vietnamese."

 

 

Sabretooth: "Sabretooth is a formidable hand-to-hand combatant, having been trained by the Foreigner, the C.I.A., and many others. Sabretooth is also an extraordinary hunter and tracker."

 

 

 

as i've previously stated, Wolverine has superior skills, but the skill gap between the two, is not big enough to bridge the gap in their Physical Capabilities.

[Guest force_echo]

Your logic is extremly faulty, we get the stated powers and such FROM the comics, not the other away around, thus the COMICS are always superior, not the other way around. Thus, Wolverine breaking out of steel chains, lifting cars, etc. etc. Is still viable, which means that Sabretooth has a miniscule, if any advantage over Wolverine. Wolverine's healing factor is basically the same as Sabretooth's so the counteraction of lactic acid would work for him too, thats even on stamina. According to the passage YOU put up, Wolverine's reflexes and agility are also enhanced (look at the last sentace second paragraph). The skill gap between Wolverine and Sabretooth would easily overcome whatever miniscule if any enhancements Sabretooth has. Also, as stated before, Wolverine's repeated pwning of Sabretooth (which eventually ends in the death of Sabretooth I might add) also adds to the fact that wolverine is superior. I do not think Wolverine would win however, I think Wendigo would.

[Guest sirmethos]

Your logic is extremly faulty, we get the stated powers and such FROM the comics, not the other away around, thus the COMICS are always superior, not the other way around. Thus, Wolverine breaking out of steel chains, lifting cars, etc. etc. Is still viable, which means that Sabretooth has a miniscule, if any advantage over Wolverine. Wolverine's healing factor is basically the same as Sabretooth's so the counteraction of lactic acid would work for him too, thats even on stamina. According to the passage YOU put up, Wolverine's reflexes and agility are also enhanced (look at the last sentace second paragraph). The skill gap between Wolverine and Sabretooth would easily overcome whatever miniscule if any enhancements Sabretooth has. Also, as stated before, Wolverine's repeated pwning of Sabretooth (which eventually ends in the death of Sabretooth I might add) also adds to the fact that wolverine is superior. I do not think Wolverine would win however, I think Wendigo would.

 

 

Wolverine has broken out of steel chains is nothing compared to crushing a solid steel ball in his hands. and the steel ball was back in the beginning, when Sabretooth was at his weakest. since then he has had 3 or 4 enhancements to his strength and other abilities, after the last one his strength level was unknown. before that it topped at around 5-8 tons.

 

 

also, the powers might start being shown in comics. but the companies also directly state them in other places, ie. handbooks, marvel.com, etc.

 

 

 

but by your logic i'm guessing you think Black Panther can actually beat Silver Surfer, as long as he surprises him, or Spider-Man can actually take down Firelord, or that Captain America could actually take out the Hulk.

[Guest force_echo]

Wolverine has broken out of steel chains is nothing compared to crushing a solid steel ball in his hands. and the steel ball was back in the beginning, when Sabretooth was at his weakest. since then he has had 3 or 4 enhancements to his strength and other abilities, after the last one his strength level was unknown. before that it topped at around 5-8 tons.

 

 

also, the powers might start being shown in comics. but the companies also directly state them in other places, ie. handbooks, marvel.com, etc.

 

 

 

but by your logic i'm guessing you think Black Panther can actually beat Silver Surfer, as long as he surprises him, or Spider-Man can actually take down Firelord, or that Captain America could actually take out the Hulk.

The first two are PIS, which I accept, along with all of the other users on CBUB, not some comic mechanics crap. PIs I accept, because it is an occassional phenomenon easily identified, vs. comic mechanics which applies to almost the entire MU, and therefore logically has no relevance. The third however, is conceivable, Captain America regularly takes down people on Hulk's caliber, if you'd understand the character you would realize that Cap is basically the Chuck Norris of comics.

 

Proof that the "Sabretooth crushing steel ball" feat was before enhancements?

[Guest sirmethos]

The first two are PIS, which I accept, along with all of the other users on CBUB, not some comic mechanics crap. PIs I accept, because it is an occassional phenomenon easily identified, vs. comic mechanics which applies to almost the entire MU, and therefore logically has no relevance. The third however, is conceivable, Captain America regularly takes down people on Hulk's caliber, if you'd understand the character you would realize that Cap is basically the Chuck Norris of comics.

 

Proof that the "Sabretooth crushing steel ball" feat was before enhancements?

 

the 'crushing steel ball' feat happened in a late 80's or early 90's Spider-Man comic.

 

i can't remember the exact issue, but Spider-Man was working together with Solo and Silver Sable taking down a terrorist group in... some african country.

 

if you give me some time i might be able to find the exact issue for you.

[Guest sirmethos]

found it: Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #324

 

part of the "The Assassin Nation Plot" arc.

 

Edit: and it is from 1989

[Guest force_echo]

found it: Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #324

 

part of the "The Assassin Nation Plot" arc.

 

Edit: and it is from 1989

Ok, well, do you have a feat of strength for enhanced Sabretooth?

[Guest sirmethos]

in Wolverine Vol 2 #166 from 2001, we're directly told that Sabretooth has received enhancements to his strength among other things, from the Weapon X program.

 

 

gimme a little time to look through some comics and i'll get you some actual feats for the enhanced Sabretooth. however, it is known(and stated) that he has been enhanced at least 3 times.

[Guest sirmethos]

we can start with a scan from an old comic, directly stating that Sabretooth is faster and stronger.

 

 

 

a scan from a newer comic(after enhancements), that shows Sabretooths healing factor has also been enhanced.

 

 

 

a scan from a newer comic(after Sabretooth got Adamantium again), with Wolverine, again, Directly stating that Sabretooth is stronger and faster

 

 

 

 

 

i'll get back to you with more specific strength feats once i locate them.

[Guest shellsbut]

we can start with a scan from an old comic, directly stating that Sabretooth is faster and stronger.

 

 

 

a scan from a newer comic(after enhancements), that shows Sabretooths healing factor has also been enhanced.

 

 

 

a scan from a newer comic(after Sabretooth got Adamantium again), with Wolverine, again, Directly stating that Sabretooth is stronger and faster

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'll get back to you with more specific strength feats once i locate them.

 

yeah Wolverine lost that tussle but an issue and a half later he some how fared alot better. the whole Wolverine vs Sabretooth crap is crap. Wendigo takes this. Does it even anywhere mention how Sabretooth lost his Adamantium

[Guest sirmethos]

yeah Wolverine lost that tussle but an issue and a half later he some how fared alot better. the whole Wolverine vs Sabretooth crap is crap. Wendigo takes this. Does it even anywhere mention how Sabretooth lost his Adamantium

 

the first time around, he lost it when Apocalypse removed it from him, and implanted it in Wolverine, when Wolverine became Death as one of the Four Horsemen. i can't remember how he lost it the second time around though.