Guest bigballerju Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 So, Spider-Man can defeat Firelord, Black Panther can physically restrain the Silver Surfer and Squirrel Girl can defeat Thanos, after all, all those fights were canon. In that case, Thor definitely loses. He was taken out, a long with the other avengers, by Magneto. Darkseid is easily more powerful than Magneto. Sites like this, is to find out "who would actually win in a fight between X and Y", thus, we have to look at the actual capabilities of the characters and discard various results of bad writing, like the examples I provided above. For example, Thor in Berserker Rage lost to Professor Hulk, after Hulk got a grenade splinter lodged in his brain. Hulk easily punted Thor away from the battle field when the military launched nukes to take out Hulk, who was at the time considered to have gone insane. Another example, Thor lost to the weakest version of the Destroyer so far(controlled by some random military guy), and was actually killed, before Odin's Raven in human form(his name eludes me right now) forced Hela to send him back. Now, personally, I prefer to discard the results of bad writing, but if you want, we can include things like that, in which case Thor doesn't stand a chance. I agree Methos I hate bad writing and I do discard them But we need some basis so we can debate on fights and there has to be a limit. What is official in the comics is that. Superman without PIS I could easily say myself would destroy Darkseid because he is more powerful and without comic mechanics he wouldn't have to hold back. Superman at full power and not holding back would be a Superman-Prime to be honest. Superman with all of that at full power and nothing to hold him back would pawn most in comics. I'm just using that as a example so you know Methos. I mean come on you have seen the debates go nuts on CBUB. PIS and Mechanics is what keeps some of them at times in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Falcon Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I agree Methos I hate bad writing and I do discard them But we need some basis so we can debate on fights and there has to be a limit. What is official in the comics is that. Superman without PIS I could easily say myself would destroy Darkseid because he is more powerful and without comic mechanics he wouldn't have to hold back. Superman at full power and not holding back would be a Superman-Prime to be honest. Superman with all of that at full power and nothing to hold him back would pawn most in comics. I'm just using that as a example so you know Methos. I mean come on you have seen the debates go nuts on CBUB. PIS and Mechanics is what keeps some of them at times in check.Superman could do that but he wouldnt because he doesnt want to kill. Thats what makes him Superman, he doesnt kill because it would make him no better than his enemies. Also NO, the only thing Superman has an advantage in is speed. In every other way Darkseid is superior. That is why in a straight up fist fight Darkseid prevails when he actually tries, as shown earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 "Superman without PIS I could easily say myself would destroy Darkseid because he is more powerful and without comic mechanics he wouldn't have to hold back." Without Comics Mechanics, Darkseid could simply de-evolve Superman, or use Matter Manipulation to rip him apart on a molecular level. With no Comics Mechanics, Superman wouldn't stand a chance against Darkseid unless they keep it to a purely physical fight. "Superman at full power and not holding back would be a Superman-Prime to be honest." uh.. no, there are a few differences that makes that statement wrong. the main one being(i'm assuming you're talking about Superman-Prime One Million), the 16 Thousand years Superman-Prime spent in the core of the sun. Superman hasn't even spent 100 years Under the sun. And if you're talking about Superboy-Prime, then there are also a few differences that makes the statement wrong. 1. Prime is stated as being equal to Pre-Crisis Superman, someone who was Far more powerful than the modern day version. and 2. Prime absorbs All kinds of energy, where the regular Superman only absorbs Sunlight. "Superman with all of that at full power and nothing to hold him back would pawn most in comics." Not quite, there are a LOT of characters that would defeat Superman without breaking a sweat, i can easily name 10 if needs be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Superman could do that but he wouldnt because he doesnt want to kill. Thats what makes him Superman, he doesnt kill because it would make him no better than his enemies. Also NO, the only thing Superman has an advantage in is speed. In every other way Darkseid is superior. That is why in a straight up fist fight Darkseid prevails when he actually tries, as shown earlier. Yes but remember we are talking no PIS or mechanics. Superman without that may feel it is needed to kill Darkseid because not being held down by dumb comic restrictions. Also I think Superman would also with all the power stored from the sun and finally unleashing his full 100% power which has never been seen kill Darkseid. If I am misunderstanding PIS and Comic Mechanics let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Yes but remember we are talking no PIS or mechanics. Superman without that may feel it is needed to kill Darkseid because not being held down by dumb comic restrictions. Also I think Superman would also with all the power stored from the sun and finally unleashing his full 100% power which has never been seen kill Darkseid. If I am misunderstanding PIS and Comic Mechanics let me know. You don't seem to be misunderstanding it. However, you seem to be focusing on the fact that it's holding Superman back, and completely ignoring the fact that it's holding Darkseid back even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkender Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Batman/Superman: Supergirl the comic where it happened is cannon. Seriously If Supergirl was able to break it. What makes people think Thor can't? So wait people on CBUB think Thor can beat Superman and not Darkseid? LOL this is interesting. Thor beats Superman because of his mystical...ness. Superman's weakness to magic bring them to a closer level while Darksied has no weakness to Magic and would beat Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 You don't seem to be misunderstanding it. However, you seem to be focusing on the fact that it's holding Superman back, and completely ignoring the fact that it's holding Darkseid back even more. I didn't ignore the fact. I bascally told you if both men weren't held back I think Superman would win because he would go full power at 100% and at that level he would be too much for Darkseid. No Darkender people thought Thor could beat Superman even without magic and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkender Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Basic Thor vs Basic Superman? Without the Magic to weaken Superman? I'd have to disagree. Unless Thor has had some recent power up that I'm not aware of, which can totally be the case, I don't think he could beat Superman. Superman has too much over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Falcon Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Basic Thor vs Basic Superman? Without the Magic to weaken Superman? I'd have to disagree. Unless Thor has had some recent power up that I'm not aware of, which can totally be the case, I don't think he could beat Superman. Superman has too much over him.I have to agree. Even with the magic I think it would go down like in the JLA/Avengers crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Doomsday have been able to be hit by it and not die.I would like to point out that Darkseid DID kill him with the omega beams, Doomsday being who he is, came back to life and attacked Darkseid when he had his back turned. Also that was an avatar of Darkseid, making it weaker then the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Falcon Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I would like to point out that Darkseid DID kill him with the omega beams, Doomsday being who he is, came back to life and attacked Darkseid when he had his back turned. Also that was an avatar of Darkseid, making it weaker then the real deal.I dont think it actually killed him, it seemed like it more just temp. knocked him out and Darkseid thought it was over. Also yes it was only an Avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Pymp(mex) Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 So if DC said Green Arrow could beat Superman in a foot race you wouldn't question it cause they said so? And bad writing should not be used against characters... Unfortunately yes that is like you telling me how MY character will win or lose. Bad writing has always been used. which is why Sentry has been accepted as more powerful than Terrax, which is why Squirrel Girl beat Thanos, which is why Wolverine can fight Hulk, which is why Flash can zap the speed out of you. etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Basic Thor vs Basic Superman? Without the Magic to weaken Superman? I'd have to disagree. Unless Thor has had some recent power up that I'm not aware of, which can totally be the case, I don't think he could beat Superman. Superman has too much over him.Um he did. lol he is way more powerful now than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I dont think it actually killed him, it seemed like it more just temp. knocked him out and Darkseid thought it was over. Also yes it was only an Avatar.Well let us not forget that was Hunter Prey Doomsday, but even Darkseid said he was dead, that is why he was so surprised at Doomsday getting up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkender Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Did Doomsday beat Darksied in that comic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Did Doomsday beat Darksied in that comic?That was an avatar of Darkseid, not the real deal, but when Darkseid has his back turned Doomsday attacks him and beat him down. I guess you could say Doomsday won, but Darkseid did kill him, and as I said it wasn't the real DS, it was a much weaker avatar. That was also Hunter Prey Doomsday that was caPable of evolving on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G4hardcore Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 That was an avatar of Darkseid, not the real deal, but when Darkseid has his back turned Doomsday attacks him and beat him down. I guess you could say Doomsday won, but Darkseid did kill him, and as I said it wasn't the real DS, it was a much weaker avatar. That was also Hunter Prey Doomsday that was caPable of evolving on the spot.Do you think Hunter Prey Doomsday could beat the real Darkseid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Do you think Hunter Prey Doomsday could beat the real Darkseid?I think not because it only beat the Avatar of Darkseid because he had his back turned and left himself opened for attack, though you can't blame Doomsday for doing it. I see Thor has 8 votes now, who all voted for him? No one has yet to convince me that Thor will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Falcon Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I would like to point out that on pg 24 of the main Final Crisis graphic novel, Superman specifically states that Darkseid and the other new gods are celestials and each has the power to crack planets open or enslave millions. So if they are Celestials, doesnt that mean they are equal to some Marvel celestials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I think not because it only beat the Avatar of Darkseid because he had his back turned and left himself opened for attack, though you can't blame Doomsday for doing it. I see Thor has 8 votes now, who all voted for him? No one has yet to convince me that Thor will win. Alot of people voted for Thor and didn't give there reasons. That has been happened alot on CBUB where people vote on matchs, or here in the forums, or even rate setups without giving reasons. I know I said Thor wins and gave my own reasons. Falcon DC changes there characters power levels so much its not funny. DC could have meant it differently. I have that comic myself and will take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 It's better to just create the Rumbles as regular threads, instead of adding the option of voting. That way, there are no 'silent voters', and you get a much more accurate picture of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Flame Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 It's better to just create the Rumbles as regular threads, instead of adding the option of voting. That way, there are no 'silent voters', and you get a much more accurate picture of the match. Now that I did this and people didn't speak up for why they voted for Thor. Next time I won't put the option of voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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