Guest sirmethos Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 MArvel was smart enough to recon the events DC did not TLT > DCU again go write DC and beg for a recon. Facts are facts you post is opinion and your iterpretation. So I post facts you post your opinion. The Brothers were the supreme of both companies turns out wasnt so for marvel. A few facts: 1. While the two Brothers are co-owned by Marvel and DC, the universes are not. Thus, the 'Brother' that appeared in Adventures of the X-men, was not the DC universe, since that particular comic was pure Marvel, and they don't own the rights to the DCU. and 2. According to what you're saying. TLT is more powerful than The-One-Above-All. Which we both know is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 A few facts: 1. While the two Brothers are co-owned by Marvel and DC, the universes are not. Thus, the 'Brother' that appeared in Adventures of the X-men, was not the DC universe, since that particular comic was pure Marvel, and they don't own the rights to the DCU. and 2. According to what you're saying. TLT is more powerful than The-One-Above-All. Which we both know is bullshit. No the FACT is that each brother represented the companies be all end all. Both brothers appeared in both MArvel and DC solicitations. MArvel reconned paticular parts of the cross over .DC DID NOT how can you see that. I plain fact fact facts you can read them. so based on that TLT>DC U and if you want to say TOAA and The PRessence are equal fine but TLT > to eveything in the DCU based on the comics. If I were you write to DC and ask them to recon some of the crossovers events. Christ DC specializes in recon so tell, start a petition or something. Oh and NOWHERE does it stated Lue and Mike +the PResence. No TLT is more powerful then The PResence is what it says I MArvel mythos nothing is superior of TOAA but the events I laid out means TLT > DCU and if you want Ill let you say TOAA and PResence are equal but most consider the Brothers t obe manifestation of the 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Until DC recons certain events like MArvel did DC loses in a who is more powerful. I speak facts lais out in comics your speak opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Until DC recons certain events like MArvel did DC loses in a who is more powerful. I speak facts lais out in comics your speak opinions And yet you are still refusing(or ignoring) some of the facts. 1. The Presence and The-One-Above-All are considered equal by both Marvel and DC. This is a fact. 2. Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos are, when together, equal to the Presence, and thus(because of fact. 1) equal to The-One-Above-All. this is a fact. 3. The two Brothers, in the crossover, are representations of the Marvel and DC universes, including the Presence and The-One-Above-All. This is a fact. 4. If the Living Tribunal is more powerful than the two Brothers, then he is(because of fact 3) more powerful than The-One-Above-All. This is a fact. Now, we both know that TLT is in fact not more powerful than The-One-Above-All. Thus, he is also weaker than The Presence, and weaker than Lucifer and Michael, when the two are working together. So, there are 3 options: 1. The two brothers were severely weakened in the comic that showed TLT as being more powerful than them. In which case, TLT is still weaker than the Brothers when they are at full strength. 2. TLT was empowered by an outside source which made him far more powerful than he normally is. 3. The two 'brothers' seen in the comic, was not actually the two Brothers, but possibly representations of them. Avatars, wielding far less power than the actual Brothers. And yes, it is stated directly, that Michael and Lucifer, when together, are equal in power to The Presence. It is also stated directly, that it was Michael and Lucifer working together, that created the DC Multiverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 And yet you are still refusing(or ignoring) some of the facts. 1. The Presence and The-One-Above-All are considered equal by both Marvel and DC. This is a fact. 2. Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos are, when together, equal to the Presence, and thus(because of fact. 1) equal to The-One-Above-All. this is a fact. 3. The two Brothers, in the crossover, are representations of the Marvel and DC universes, including the Presence and The-One-Above-All. This is a fact. 4. If the Living Tribunal is more powerful than the two Brothers, then he is(because of fact 3) more powerful than The-One-Above-All. This is a fact. Now, we both know that TLT is in fact not more powerful than The-One-Above-All. Thus, he is also weaker than The Presence, and weaker than Lucifer and Michael, when the two are working together. So, there are 3 options: 1. The two brothers were severely weakened in the comic that showed TLT as being more powerful than them. In which case, TLT is still weaker than the Brothers when they are at full strength. 2. TLT was empowered by an outside source which made him far more powerful than he normally is. 3. The two 'brothers' seen in the comic, was not actually the two Brothers, but possibly representations of them. Avatars, wielding far less power than the actual Brothers. And yes, it is stated directly, that Michael and Lucifer, when together, are equal in power to The Presence. It is also stated directly, that it was Michael and Lucifer working together, that created the DC Multiverse. wrong again THAT is your opinion not fact The Brothers were the supreme beings stated by MArvel and DC that s fact. Marvel reconned their structure showing TLT was superior to both. That is fact. Lucifer and Michael are not = to TOAA or The PResence that is once again your opinion. Thas never been stated anywhere but with your own opinionated words. Going by comic sources the crossover TLT > DCU That is fact we have comics that show it. Fact nowhere does it state the Brothers are avatars again you spout opinion. MArvel AND DC said they were the supreme beings. Sorry but you are now just throwing your oppinion around with no basis other then you cant stand that with a simple comic MArvel over powers the DC U with TLT. Please show your source that states Lue and Mike ore on par with the Presence or even the Brothers. I have actuall comics that show TLT is superior to the DCU. So again Its FATCS vs your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 wrong again THAT is your opinion not fact The Brothers were the supreme beings stated by MArvel and DC that s fact. Marvel reconned their structure showing TLT was superior to both. That is fact. Lucifer and Michael are not = to TOAA or The PResence that is once again your opinion. Thas never been stated anywhere but with your own opinionated words. Going by comic sources the crossover TLT > DCU That is fact we have comics that show it. Fact nowhere does it state the Brothers are avatars again you spout opinion. MArvel AND DC said they were the supreme beings. Sorry but you are now just throwing your oppinion around with no basis other then you cant stand that with a simple comic MArvel over powers the DC U with TLT. Please show your source that states Lue and Mike ore on par with the Presence or even the Brothers. I have actuall comics that show TLT is superior to the DCU. So again Its FATCS vs your opinion. Yes, it has been directly stated that Michael and Lucifer together are equal to The Presence. It has been directly stated that Michael and Lucifer were the ones that created the DC Multiverse. And again, if TLT is superior to the Brothers, then he is also superior to TOAA. Which even you know is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Yes, it has been directly stated that Michael and Lucifer together are equal to The Presence. It has been directly stated that Michael and Lucifer were the ones that created the DC Multiverse. And again, if TLT is superior to the Brothers, then he is also superior to TOAA. Which even you know is bullshit. Prove it has been stated. I stated the Brothers are supreme in their 2 universe. I stated MArvel reconned and TLT is superior to the brothers. Everything I stated has been legit and published in comics. You still have yet to prove anything other then your flawed OPINION. Which part of RECON do you not understand????Seriously???hmmm which part does not register? TLT > Dcu based on comics. Oh and even if Michael and Lucifer created the multiverse then Marvel is superior to the DC in power because OF YOUR OWN WORDS. You called the Michael and Lucifer EQAUL to the Presence yet state That Michael and Lucifer are multiversal being. TOAA is omniversal. So again the means The Presence is only Multiversal. Thank you for now stating Marvel is superior to DC in terms of power. Omniversal > Multiversal. So that raps it up. Cheers Marvel wins......or are you going to deny what you said earlier to ummmm jump the Presence up the power grid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Prove it has been stated. I stated the Brothers are supreme in their 2 universe. I stated MArvel reconned and TLT is superior to the brothers. Everything I stated has been legit and published in comics. You still have yet to prove anything other then your flawed OPINION. Which part of RECON do you not understand????Seriously???hmmm which part does not register? TLT > Dcu based on comics. Oh and even if Michael and Lucifer created the multiverse then Marvel is superior to the DC in power because OF YOUR OWN WORDS. You called the Michael and Lucifer EQAUL to the Presence yet state That Michael and Lucifer are multiversal being. TOAA is omniversal. So again the means The Presence is only Multiversal. Thank you for now stating Marvel is superior to DC in terms of power. Omniversal > Multiversal. So that raps it up. Cheers Marvel wins......or are you going to deny what you said earlier to ummmm jump the Presence up the power grid? I have already provided you with proof. I have given you all the issues of the comics you need to read in order to get your proof. As I have already said(several times), both Marvel and DC consider TOAA and The Presence as equal. Both are representations of the writers. Thus, if TLT is more powerful than The Presence, he is also more powerful than TOAA, which we both know is bullshit. As I have also said(several times), it has been directly stated that Michael and Lucifer together are equal to The Presence. Since Marvel acknowledges The Presence as equal to TOAA, that means that Michael and Lucifer together are also equal to TOAA. So. Either you think that TLT is more powerful than TOAA, or you accept the fact that The Presence and, by proxy, Michael and Lucifer, are more powerful than TLT. Also, there are beings and artifacts that have shown to be more powerful than TLT in the Marvel Multiverse, how do you explain that, if TLT is more powerful than the entire Marvel Multiverse(as represented by the Brothers) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 By the way, shellsbut, it isn't "recon." I believe the word is "Retcon" as shown in the title of this thread. Saying "Marvel reconned(which isn't even a word) it" doesn't make one goddamn bit of sense. Of course, none of your posts really do, but I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I have already provided you with proof. I have given you all the issues of the comics you need to read in order to get your proof. As I have already said(several times), both Marvel and DC consider TOAA and The Presence as equal. Both are representations of the writers. Thus, if TLT is more powerful than The Presence, he is also more powerful than TOAA, which we both know is bullshit. As I have also said(several times), it has been directly stated that Michael and Lucifer together are equal to The Presence. Since Marvel acknowledges The Presence as equal to TOAA, that means that Michael and Lucifer together are also equal to TOAA. So. Either you think that TLT is more powerful than TOAA, or you accept the fact that The Presence and, by proxy, Michael and Lucifer, are more powerful than TLT. Also, there are beings and artifacts that have shown to be more powerful than TLT in the Marvel Multiverse, how do you explain that, if TLT is more powerful than the entire Marvel Multiverse(as represented by the Brothers) ? the funny thing is I have comics bscking what I have stated you have nothing. Please show your sources.....there is none, it was nothing but your opinion. A quick recon shows TLT is superior to the DCU and it has also been stated that TLT that delt with the HEart of the Universe (which is what you are reffering to) was an M body. So sorry bub TLT > DCU and even you state with your words The PResence is = Mickael and Lucifer whicch you also state are only multiversal. THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS. TOAA is omniversal and give TLT what ever need be in the form of power. Facts vs your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 By the way, shellsbut, it isn't "recon." I believe the word is "Retcon" as shown in the title of this thread. Saying "Marvel reconned(which isn't even a word) it" doesn't make one goddamn bit of sense. Of course, none of your posts really do, but I digress. hey you can nbe a baby and state I may have spelled something wrong but unless you are an idiot my statements are facts backed by comics that have been published. You are not even involved in this but since your friend lost his little battle in which his opinionated statments were quashed with HARD FACTS go baby else where. You bring nothing to the table. The only trhing that doesnt make sense is you are to jaded to read facts layed out in comics. Mabey they dont have comics where you come from.Your lil friend by his own words and logic stated the PResence is only multiversal. TOAA is stated as omniversal. Go eleswhere your post are nothing you clearly didnt read or cant understand the written word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 hey you can nbe a baby and state I may have spelled something wrong but unless you are an idiot my statements are facts backed by comics that have been published. You are not even involved in this but since your friend lost his little battle in which his opinionated statments were quashed with HARD FACTS go baby else where. You bring nothing to the table. The only trhing that doesnt make sense is you are to jaded to read facts layed out in comics. Mabey they dont have comics where you come from.Your lil friend by his own words and logic stated the PResence is only multiversal. TOAA is stated as omniversal. Go eleswhere your post are nothing you clearly didnt read or cant understand the written word. The best you can do is a spelling err, I thought it ws reconsidered fair enough. But I put out camic based facts he didnt. I fully expect you to come to his aid, you are on his freinds list and have been for years, going through post you also ambicably back him on almost every post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 the funny thing is I have comics bscking what I have stated you have nothing. Please show your sources.....there is none, it was nothing but your opinion. A quick recon shows TLT is superior to the DCU and it has also been stated that TLT that delt with the HEart of the Universe (which is what you are reffering to) was an M body. So sorry bub TLT > DCU and even you state with your words The PResence is = Mickael and Lucifer whicch you also state are only multiversal. THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS. TOAA is omniversal and give TLT what ever need be in the form of power. Facts vs your opinions. Ok, since you seem to be incapable of reading the comics for yourself(even though I have provided you with the issues that you should read to get the proof), I'll go through them again and post a few screenshots later today. It has never been stated that TLT that was absorbed by Thanos during the HotU was an M-Body, in fact it was stated during the HotU storyline that the Heart of the Universe(more accurately known as the Heart of the Infinite) was omniversal "Bonded to Omni-reality" (in Marvel Universe - The End #5). And again. Both Marvel and DC accept that TOAA is equal to The Presence. Also, the retcon of The Brothers doesn't just put TLT above the Brothers, it also puts Spectre above the Brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Ok, since you seem to be incapable of reading the comics for yourself(even though I have provided you with the issues that you should read to get the proof), I'll go through them again and post a few screenshots later today. It has never been stated that TLT that was absorbed by Thanos during the HotU was an M-Body, in fact it was stated during the HotU storyline that the Heart of the Universe(more accurately known as the Heart of the Infinite) was omniversal "Bonded to Omni-reality" (in Marvel Universe - The End #5). And again. Both Marvel and DC accept that TOAA is equal to The Presence. Also, the retcon of The Brothers doesn't just put TLT above the Brothers, it also puts Spectre above the Brothers.Jesus this thread is still going on? lol shells let me tell you now Micheal and lucifer ARE equal to TOAA I promise they are. If you actually read them then you would know that. I'm not even sure the WHITE phoenix is as powerful as lucifer EVEN though it is stated that she is just below TOAA and is omnipotent. just please read on them it is clearly stated that EITHER one of the brothers could QUICKLY do away with 99.9 percent of anyone in any comics or in magna or anime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 hey you can nbe a baby and state I may have spelled something wrong but unless you are an idiot my statements are facts backed by comics that have been published. You are not even involved in this but since your friend lost his little battle in which his opinionated statments were quashed with HARD FACTS go baby else where. You bring nothing to the table. The only trhing that doesnt make sense is you are to jaded to read facts layed out in comics. Mabey they dont have comics where you come from.Your lil friend by his own words and logic stated the PResence is only multiversal. TOAA is stated as omniversal. Go eleswhere your post are nothing you clearly didnt read or cant understand the written word.Wha..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Ok, since you seem to be incapable of reading the comics for yourself(even though I have provided you with the issues that you should read to get the proof), I'll go through them again and post a few screenshots later today. It has never been stated that TLT that was absorbed by Thanos during the HotU was an M-Body, in fact it was stated during the HotU storyline that the Heart of the Universe(more accurately known as the Heart of the Infinite) was omniversal "Bonded to Omni-reality" (in Marvel Universe - The End #5). And again. Both Marvel and DC accept that TOAA is equal to The Presence. Also, the retcon of The Brothers doesn't just put TLT above the Brothers, it also puts Spectre above the Brothers. yawn you are incapable of facts like I state. You have nothing but your jaded fan boy opinion. In your own words you stated Michael and Lucifer are equal to the Presence. Then thast means they are only multiveral TOOA is stated as omniversal. Come back when you have facts instead of your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Jesus this thread is still going on? lol shells let me tell you now Micheal and lucifer ARE equal to TOAA I promise they are. If you actually read them then you would know that. I'm not even sure the WHITE phoenix is as powerful as lucifer EVEN though it is stated that she is just below TOAA and is omnipotent. just please read on them it is clearly stated that EITHER one of the brothers could QUICKLY do away with 99.9 percent of anyone in any comics or in magna or anime. Sorry but on whewre in any DC comic does it state Lucifuer/Michale are multiversal beings. And BY Sirmethos's OWN WORDS if they are mutliversal like he states (even though no where it says that) then the PResence is nocked down to only a multiversal being. TOAA is omniversal. by Sirmethos's own words The PResence is now not longer on par with TOAA, the PResence is now only on par with a lesser being the TOAA. The fact that Marvel (lol and I'll spell it right this time) Recton the crossover stroyline by making TLT superior to them means he trumps the DCU for they did not do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indolent Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Still didn't get Retcon right. -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 yawn you are incapable of facts like I state. You have nothing but your jaded fan boy opinion. In your own words you stated Michael and Lucifer are equal to the Presence. Then thast means they are only multiveral TOOA is stated as omniversal. Come back when you have facts instead of your opinion. And yet, Marvel and DC both(still) accept TOAA and The Presence as being equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 And yet, Marvel and DC both(still) accept TOAA and The Presence as being equal. That is fine Okay (though according to you yourself Lucifer and MAchiel are = to the PResence and you yourself call them multiversal which means the PResence is only multiversal where TOAA is omniversal) But fine if fThe Presence is equal to TOAA it still means TLT is superior to everything else in the DCU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 That is fine Okay (though according to you yourself Lucifer and MAchiel are = to the PResence and you yourself call them multiversal which means the PResence is only multiversal where TOAA is omniversal) But fine if fThe Presence is equal to TOAA it still means TLT is superior to everything else in the DCUHe didn't call them multiversal, he stated that they created the DC Multiverse - there's a difference. Also, I'm fairly certain that TOAA has never been shown as Omniversal. The omniverse is EVERYTHING - A nexus of universes containing everything from Marvel to Real Life to Middle-Earth. Everything that I've read about TOAA points to him being confined to the vast Marvel multiverse - there's never been any evidence that he could pop up in the Nightmare on Elm Street or Harry Potter universes if he wished to. And seriously, regarding the "TLT > DCU" thing... The Living Tribunal has stated on numerous occasions that he is both servant and inferior to The One Above All. You keep bringing up that one non-canon comic book where The Living Tribunal overpowered the Brother, but you seem to be ignoring some key facts: One, that the Brothers were weakened and being drained of energy. Two, that the Living Tribunal was being powered up by an outside source. And three, that Adventures of X-Men is non-canon. Facts one and two mean that the Spectre (Being equal to the Living Tribunal) or TOAA or the Presence (Being the superiors of The Living Tribunal and the Spectre respectively) could have done the same. When the two Brothers were battling at full power in DC vs Marvel, the combined efforts of the Spectre and the Living Tribunal were absolutely useless. They were so utterly weak compared to the Brothers that they either weren't even noticed by the Brothers or were simply too little a threat to destroy. Fact three means that this is all moot anyway, as both DC vs Marvel and Adventures of X-Men are now non-canon (Meaning that canonically the Brothers probably don't even exist any more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Pymp(mex) Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 He didn't call them multiversal, he stated that they created the DC Multiverse - there's a difference. Also, I'm fairly certain that TOAA has never been shown as Omniversal. The omniverse is EVERYTHING - A nexus of universes containing everything from Marvel to Real Life to Middle-Earth. Everything that I've read about TOAA points to him being confined to the vast Marvel multiverse - there's never been any evidence that he could pop up in the Nightmare on Elm Street or Harry Potter universes if he wished to. And seriously, regarding the "TLT > DCU" thing... The Living Tribunal has stated on numerous occasions that he is both servant and inferior to The One Above All. You keep bringing up that one non-canon comic book where The Living Tribunal overpowered the Brother, but you seem to be ignoring some key facts: One, that the Brothers were weakened and being drained of energy. Two, that the Living Tribunal was being powered up by an outside source. And three, that Adventures of X-Men is non-canon. Facts one and two mean that the Spectre (Being equal to the Living Tribunal) or TOAA or the Presence (Being the superiors of The Living Tribunal and the Spectre respectively) could have done the same. When the two Brothers were battling at full power in DC vs Marvel, the combined efforts of the Spectre and the Living Tribunal were absolutely useless. They were so utterly weak compared to the Brothers that they either weren't even noticed by the Brothers or were simply too little a threat to destroy. Fact three means that this is all moot anyway, as both DC vs Marvel and Adventures of X-Men are now non-canon (Meaning that canonically the Brothers probably don't even exist any more). But TOAA is still more powerful than the brothers? I have never heard of them and I am just curious tp know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen C Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Guys, you're arguing about omnipotence vs omnipotence. It's times like these where you really need to take a step back, and say "I'm taking this way to seriously." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 But TOAA is still more powerful than the brothers? I have never heard of them and I am just curious tp knowNo, the Brothers are the physical embodiments of the Marvel and DC multiverses respectively; Meaning that they are far above both TOAA and the Presence. Think of it like this; The Presence and The One Above All are representation of the writers working for each company, whereas the Brothers are essentially representations of the companies themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indolent Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Wait, I thought it was stated they were equal to The Presence and The One Above All, not above them? Jeez this is getting confusing. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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