AVP vs The Terminator Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm interested in seeing everyone's opinion on this; how well does Batman stack up against his sidekicks/partners in their current incarnations? I've heard it being said that a few of them have actually surpassed him in several areas at this point. The match-ups are as follows (Note: I'm not including Damien Wayne as he hasn't reached physical maturity yet, and is thus not a match for Bats): Batman vs Dick Grayson (Nightwing) Batman vs Jason Todd (Red Hood) Batman vs Tim Drake (Red Robin) Batman vs Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) Batman vs Cassandra Cain (Black Bat) Batman vs Stephanie Brown (Batgirl) Batman vs Kate Kane (Batwoman) Batman vs Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael) Batman vs Terry McGinnis (Batman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MarvelFan15 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Theoretically, if he has prep, Bats can defeat all of them. Or are these impromptu battles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Yeah, I was thinking random encounters, no prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Flame Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 From what I know and heard which is limited compared to most people. Here our my thoughts. First Batman vs. Red Robin: Tim is Talented in his own right but Batman still outclasses him in almost every field. Batman a better hand to hand fighter and I assume Bats has better equipment in his Utility Belt. Winner Batman after a fairly good fight. Batman vs. Barbara Gordon (Batgirl): Batman better fight again I believe but Barbara's faster I think. Batman again has better toy's and Batgirl has been out of fighting for awhile. So Winner Batman 10 out of 10 times. Batman vs. Red Hood: Jason has before both stalemated Nightwing and Batman (I read that on the DC wikia & think heard it on this site also) stalemated them in hand to hand combat. So I"m fairly sure Red Hood is almost as skilled as Batman in hand to hand combat. Now for equipment Jason's Utility Belt probably doesn't have as good as toys as Batman. However he does have guns and his knife. His a master marksman trained in guns by Brace and later on by other trainers who trained him how to kill targets with many different guns. So I"m fairly sure if Jason uses his guns right and doesn't let bats out smart him with Bat's utility belt he can win. Jason can win 4 out of ten times and Bat wins 6 of the ten times. Because his smarter than Jason and can come up with a plan to out him out. More to come later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Good points, thanks for the comment. Yeah, while Red Hood's tech isn't as advanced as Batman's, it's more lethal. He has a lot of military-style equipment. Oh, and I'm not sure if this will have any effect on the fight, but I think I vaguely remember it being stated that Tim is smarter than Batman. I think it was either in Battle for the Cowl, or while Red Robin was searching for Bats after he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm interested in seeing everyone's opinion on this; how well does Batman stack up against his sidekicks/partners in their current incarnations? I've heard it being said that a few of them have actually surpassed him in several areas at this point. The match-ups are as follows (Note: I'm not including Damien Wayne as he hasn't reached physical maturity yet, and is thus not a match for Bats): Batman vs Dick Grayson (Nightwing) Batman vs Jason Todd (Red Hood) Batman vs Tim Drake (Red Robin) Batman vs Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) Batman vs Cassandra Cain (Black Bat) Batman vs Stephanie Brown (Batgirl) Batman vs Kate Kane (Batwoman) Batman vs Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael) Batman vs Terry McGinnis (Batman)He beats everyone but Cassandra who is hands down a better fighter and probably not Terry due to how much his suit gives him an advantage. the person to give him the most trouble and NOT beat him is maybe Red Hood and jean-paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 He beats everyone but Cassandra who is hands down a better fighter and probably not Terry due to how much his suit gives him an advantage. the person to give him the most trouble and NOT beat him is maybe Red Hood and jean-paul.Keep in mind that Batman himself has stated that Nightwing would beat him in a hand-to-hand fight. And Tim Drake, Jason Todd and Jean-Paul Valley have all fought Nightwing to a standstill at least once. Also, eighty-year-old Bruce Wayne was able to make a fool of Terry in the original Batsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Keep in mind that Batman himself has stated that Nightwing would beat him in a hand-to-hand fight. And Tim Drake, Jason Todd and Jean-Paul Valley have all fought Nightwing to a standstill at least once. Also, eighty-year-old Bruce Wayne was able to make a fool of Terry in the original Batsuit. well thats nice but even better than nightwing is Cassandra. She is heads above the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 No arguments there. In terms of raw skill, she is by far the best, but other members of the Bat family excel in other areas (e.g Nightwing in acrobatics, Red Robin in stick fighting, Red Hood in marksmanship) that would allow them to have decent fights against her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 No arguments there. In terms of raw skill, she is by far the best, but other members of the Bat family excel in other areas (e.g Nightwing in acrobatics, Red Robin in stick fighting, Red Hood in marksmanship) that would allow them to have decent fights against her.yes the only thing they could be is acrobatic because hand to hand she could kill every last member of the bat family AND Bats himself. Without trickery she could beat everyone very easily. If Cassandra could beat lady shiva then..........They all go down. But again it's only so much they can do or only so long they can run and dodge before she gets to them but again in the end she wins.10/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 True enough. Though, as I recall, there have been several instances where other members of the Bat family have fought evenly with her by sticking to their strengths. Tim Drake took the one thing he has over her-- stick fighting-- and put it to good use, managing to knock her unconscious, Dick Grayson used his strength and punched her out in Teen Titans, etc. But yeah, in an actual fight (free of PIS and comics mechanics), she'd pretty much beat all of them, the only ones she'd have any real difficulty with being Grayson, Drake, Todd, Valley, McGinnis and Bruce himself, but even those would go down. Except maybe Batman Beyond, his suit might give him the win over her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 True enough. Though, as I recall, there have been several instances where other members of the Bat family have fought evenly with her by sticking to their strengths. Tim Drake took the one thing he has over her-- stick fighting-- and put it to good use, managing to knock her unconscious, Dick Grayson used his strength and punched her out in Teen Titans, etc. But yeah, in an actual fight (free of PIS and comics mechanics), she'd pretty much beat all of them, the only ones she'd have any real difficulty with being Grayson, Drake, Todd, Valley, McGinnis and Bruce himself, but even those would go down. Except maybe Batman Beyond, his suit might give him the win over her.him knocking her out was pure PIS. Terry would be the only person to beat her honestly and it's only due to the suit. even for people to hang with her is PIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Damian Wayne in ten years owns them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spytheman Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Damian Wayne in ten years owns them all.Probably. But as it stands in current timeline, my vote goes to good ol' Brucie for each fight, except Cassandra. With prep that all changes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Probably. But as it stands in current timeline, my vote goes to good ol' Brucie for each fight, except Cassandra. With prep that all changes though.I'd say Batman can beat them all. The ones with the best chance to beat him are Azrael, Nightwing, and Cain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I'm interested in seeing everyone's opinion on this; how well does Batman stack up against his sidekicks/partners in their current incarnations? I've heard it being said that a few of them have actually surpassed him in several areas at this point. The match-ups are as follows (Note: I'm not including Damien Wayne as he hasn't reached physical maturity yet, and is thus not a match for Bats): Batman vs Dick Grayson (Nightwing) Nightwing wins as over the years in the comics he has passed Bruce in H2H fighting. Batman vs Jason Todd (Red Hood) Jason is as good as Dick but not good enough to beat Bruce. Batman wins.Batman vs Tim Drake (Red Robin) Tim is smarter then Batman and a better Detective. With prep Tim wins and without prep Bruce wins. Batman vs Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) Batman beats her easily. Batman vs Cassandra Cain (Black Bat) Cassandra Cain wins whether Bruce has prep or not.Batman vs Stephanie Brown (Batgirl) Batman could do this in his sleep. Batman vs Kate Kane (Batwoman) Batman wins without breaking a sweat. Batman vs Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael) Batman wins after a short battle where Jean once again realizes he is nothing compared to Bruce. Batman vs Terry McGinnis (Batman) Terry is a better Batman period. Terry wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 @bigballerju- So Batman loses to Nightwing, but beats Red Hood, who as you describe is "just as good as Dick"? Also Batman only beat Azrael through wits. He could not get past his armor, so Bruce tricked him into taking it off. Batman will have a tougher time with Azrael then you think, I don't see Azrael making the same mistake twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spytheman Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I just want to add that, IMO, Tim isn't smarter then Batman yet. He's 19 now correct? I like to think that he's smarter then Bruce when he was 19, and when Tim reaches Bruces current age he'll be smarter, but with Bruce so much older and having so much more experiene and time to learn things, he's currently smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I worded the Jason Todd part wrong. Current Batman is more then equipped and skilled enough to take out Jean. Jason close to Nightwing and right under him. Actually it has been said Tim is a better Detective then Bruce and smarter intellect wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I worded the Jason Todd part wrong. Current Batman is more then equipped and skilled enough to take out Jean. Jason close to Nightwing and right under him. Actually it has been said Tim is a better Detective then Bruce and smarter intellect wise.To sum it up Bruce is the prefect Balance of EVERYTHING that makes the bat family good. but in certain aspects people are better than him but there isn't a person better all around. For example you have 5 brothers. Your the oldest and you average a b in school. Your younger brother could be faster, then another one maybe smarter, then another maybe the most athletic, but you being the oldest have ALL the aspects your younger brothers have but your the best well rounded. They have an advantage because your teaching them all the skills it took you years to learn then perfect and compacted it down to maybe months. Cassandra-better fighterTim-faster learnerJason-tougherDick-better detective and better acrobatBarbra-"same" coming from a detective household THEN being trained by BatmanKate-More discipline coming from a military backgroundJean Paul-Almost as balanced but not as there mentallyTerry-Better instincts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 him knocking her out was pure PIS. Terry would be the only person to beat her honestly and it's only due to the suit. even for people to hang with her is PIS.Not really, pretty much everyone in the Bats family could at least hang with her, the exceptions being Barbara, Spoiler, Batwoman and Damian, who would get wtfstomped. The rest would go down after a moderately difficult fight by, like I said before, sticking to their strengths. For example, Cassandra outclasses Nightwing in hand-to-hand, but he could hang with her by using his wits and acrobatic skills, Cassandra outclasses Drake in most martial arts categories, the exception being stick fighting (Drake's taken Shiva down using his staff in the past), so if he stuck to that, he could hang with her, etc. @Spytheman: No, it's been directly stated that Tim is smarter than Bruce. It was during the War Games storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The best Batman sidekick would kick all of their asses. At the same time. With both hands tied behind his back. And blindfolded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Yeah, Ace the Bat-Hound would do that for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Nope. Wrong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 No. Ace is by far the best Batman sidekick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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