Batman vs Batman sidekicks

[C.T.]

No. No he is not.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

The best Batman sidekick would kick all of their asses. At the same time. With both hands tied behind his back. And blindfolded.

Bat-Mite?

[C.T.]

Yes.

[Guest Darxeth]

Hm. Interesting topic. Cain and Grayson are the better fighters of the sidekicks and Batman would struggle with either of them. Tim is good and all, but he's nowhere near Batman's level; especially combat-wise. Jason Todd would be a handful with his handguns but Batman still holds the upper hand. In all honesty I think Grayson would fair better against Jason than Batman simply because of Grayson's fantastic reflexes and his uncanny ability to think quickly on his feet; something even Batman prides him for. Well that, and his ability to learn very quickly. Regardless, I still think Batman would win. Jason lets his temper get the better of him, and Batman would exploit that. The rest of the Bat Family poses no real threat, save for Azrael. Whom can be defeated by Batman without too much effort. But If I had to pick which one would have the best chance overall, I'd say Grayson. Why? Because Grayson can think like Batman. He's served as Batman longer than most of the other sidekicks, and he's defeated most of Batman's enemies. He's a gifted tactician and he's notably faster than Batman. He's been able to sneak up on Batman and surprise him. So my money's on Grayson.

[Guest bigballerju]

Terry McGinnis was never a sidekick and was a better Batman in the future. Bruce actually played the sidekick role to be honest from the computer in the Bat Cave. Terry beat Hush, Joker, the Justice League twice, Superman, and powerful villians who surpassed Batman's own rogue's gallery. Terry in training performed better then what Bruce was back when Bruce was Batman against Bruce's villians in his day and Bruce told him don't get cocky while grinning even. Terry's fighting skills, strategies, intellect, tech, weapons, equipment, and more surpass Bruce due to the villians Terry has to face on a daily basis. Terry's villians are both smart and powerful which is a deadly combination.

[Guest Spytheman]

You all seem to be forgetting one thing. The one, most powerful attack Batman has, that so far none of his wards have been able to duplicate. The one, shining advantage he has against all of them, that renders any advantages any of them could possibly have absolutely mute.

 

The batkick.

 

[Guest bigballerju]

LOL what a wonderful moment that was.

[comic_book_fan]

batman beats them all.

[The Blue Flame]

batman beats them all.

 

That's not very in depth

[Guest Darxeth]

That's not very in depth

 

Mine was

[comic_book_fan]

That's not very in depth

it's late i will explain later right no i am hitting the bed

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Yes.

So....what do I win?

[Guest Redemption X]

The ONLY one who can come even close to beating Batman is Cassandra Cain, and even she is not as tough, experienced or intelligent as Batman.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

The ONLY one who can come even close to beating Batman is Cassandra Cain, and even she is not as tough, experienced or intelligent as Batman.

Really? Not Azrael or Batman Beyond with their enhanced physical stats? Or Dick Grayson, who has roughly the same amount of experience as Batman, and is a superior acrobat and hand-to-hand fighter?

[C.T.]

So....what do I win?

 

A cookie?

[Guest xman4life]

Really? Not Azrael or Batman Beyond with their enhanced physical stats? Or Dick Grayson, who has roughly the same amount of experience as Batman, and is a superior acrobat and hand-to-hand fighter?

Listen honestly I think we can all agree Cassandra is honestly the better fighter. She is better than Batman and the rest of them just being honest. She was trained from birth to be a world class assassin so just being real who can compete with her when she clearly has much more hand o hand skills, abilities, and experience than anyone. Like AVP said each has their own talent but Hand to hand is hers. Dick can maybe beat batman too, along with Azrael and maybe even Jason but while Batman loses after a long fight she can really beat him the fastest because she is a better fighter all around. Each plays to their strength and H2H is hers alone. Who else can you name beat Lady Shiva H2H on this list? Hell she damn near killed Huntress, and Dick.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Listen honestly I think we can all agree Cassandra is honestly the better fighter. She is better than Batman and the rest of them just being honest. She was trained from birth to be a world class assassin so just being real who can compete with her when she clearly has much more hand o hand skills, abilities, and experience than anyone. Like AVP said each has their own talent but Hand to hand is hers. Dick can maybe beat batman too, along with Azrael and maybe even Jason but while Batman loses after a long fight she can really beat him the fastest because she is a better fighter all around. Each plays to their strength and H2H is hers alone. Who else can you name beat Lady Shiva H2H on this list? Hell she damn near killed Huntress, and Dick.

Yep, she is, by far, the best overall fighter in the Bats family. The only ones who would stand a proper chance of beating her would be Terry or Azrael with their physical stats. I think what you said earlier about Batman being the "all-rounder" of the Bats Family is true. Like, Bruce is good at everything, but some of his partners are GREAT in one area, then not so great in others. For example:

 

Nightwing - Best acrobat, but not the best strength-wise

 

Cassandra - By far the best hand-to-hand fighter, but not exactly up to par in the mental department (not to say that she's dumb, just not as smart as others in the Batman Family)

 

Barbara Gordon - Probably the most tech-savvy and possibly smartest, but not great in fighting skills

 

Red Robin - Best detective, but not the best in pure hand-to-hand

 

Red Hood - Best marksman, but gives into his rage too often

 

Azrael - Total tank in the physical department, but has a tendency to turn insane when under a lot of stress

 

etc.

[corvette1710]

Wait wait wait... He said current incarnations.

 

Isn't Barbara Gordon in a wheelchair?

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Wait wait wait... He said current incarnations.

 

Isn't Barbara Gordon in a wheelchair?

No. Get with da times.

[Indolent]

Adam West wins.

[Guest xman4life]

Yep, she is, by far, the best overall fighter in the Bats family. The only ones who would stand a proper chance of beating her would be Terry or Azrael with their physical stats. I think what you said earlier about Batman being the "all-rounder" of the Bats Family is true. Like, Bruce is good at everything, but some of his partners are GREAT in one area, then not so great in others. For example:

 

Nightwing - Best acrobat, but not the best strength-wise

 

Cassandra - By far the best hand-to-hand fighter, but not exactly up to par in the mental department (not to say that she's dumb, just not as smart as others in the Batman Family)

 

Barbara Gordon - Probably the most tech-savvy and possibly smartest, but not great in fighting skills

 

Red Robin - Best detective, but not the best in pure hand-to-hand

 

Red Hood - Best marksman, but gives into his rage too often

 

Azrael - Total tank in the physical department, but has a tendency to turn insane when under a lot of stress

 

etc.

And with that I total agree. Case closed. Batman has everyones skills rolled into one. But in other areas they are less than him and greater than him as well. That is the reason where you have to address how the fight is?

 

Pure hand to hand he loses to Cassandra everytime.10/10 but if he has his utility belt then he could pull of a win.

In the brains department he loses to barbra but in a fight he would own her

in detective skills he loses to Tim but again in H2H would beat him

strength he loses to Azrael but could outsmart him

Again in strength he would lose to Jason but could outsmart him and maybe beat him H2H

He could probably lose to Nightwing in H2H due to his acrobatic skills but could outsmart him.

[Guest Darxeth]

:l I have a DC rpg with the entire Bat-family in it (Save for Terry) and It listed Batman as the best fighter of the family, Cassandra Second, and Nightwing 3rd. Batman is a WAYYYY better detective than Tim and don't even get me started on how much higher they listed his intellect. Normally I wouldn't say this could be canon, but I read that they actually got Geoff Johns and the rest of the big names in DC to look over it to agree to the stats. Soooo, yeah. I wouldn't say that Cassandra Cain is the best fighter because honestly, if she was, how could Batman have furthered her training? On the DC Comic Database she received additional training from Batman; she apparently wasn't as good as Batman if he was giving her pointers. Therefore It is safe to say Batman owns the rest in h2h. I can even tell you how much some of them bench press.

 

Batman: 750-800 lbs.

Azrael: ~600 lbs. (Without costume, +1000 with)

Red Hood: 400-450 lbs.

Nightwing: 350-400 lbs.

Red Robin: 250-290 lbs.

Black Bat: 230-250 lbs.

 

(Batman can lift (Squat) around 1100 lbs. and Nightwing around 950 lbs.)

-This shows how strong Nightwing's legs are compared to his arms, which is probably the reason he can run faster and jump farther and higher than Batman.

Nonetheless, Idk why you all are saying Cain is the best fighter, because according to Green Ronin (RPG Company), Geoff Johns and his creative staff, she's not, Batman is. And I'm inclined to believe them as well as the DC Comics Database.

[Guest Darxeth]

Listen honestly I think we can all agree Cassandra is honestly the better fighter. She is better than Batman and the rest of them just being honest. She was trained from birth to be a world class assassin so just being real who can compete with her when she clearly has much more hand o hand skills, abilities, and experience than anyone. Like AVP said each has their own talent but Hand to hand is hers. Dick can maybe beat batman too, along with Azrael and maybe even Jason but while Batman loses after a long fight she can really beat him the fastest because she is a better fighter all around. Each plays to their strength and H2H is hers alone. Who else can you name beat Lady Shiva H2H on this list? Hell she damn near killed Huntress, and Dick.

 

No. I must say I disagree with most of your statement, respectfully of course. :]

Nightwing and Cassandra would have to try their very hardest to beat Batman. Azrael wouldn't be able to and neither would Jason Todd. Batman knows all of them too well. He helped train them. The only two who'd come close to defeating him would be Nightwing and Cain. Cassandra's superiority in combat results not just from her excellent physical condition, but from her cognitive functions (the result of her idiosyncratic upbringing). She can "read" people. And Batman knows this, he'd use that against her. How? Because he could use his flash pellets to disrupt her train of thought (or any gadget of his that disorients opponents), which negates her ability to read him. Her excellent combat capabilities and defensive tactics all stem from her ability to read people, so if she loses her train of concentration, she's done. Nightwing knows Batman better than anyone. He knows how he thinks, he knows how he fights, everything. And Vice versa, Batman knows everything about Nightwing too. Nightwing is a master improviser. Batman is a master strategist, second only to Deathstroke; as stated on the DC Comics Database. Batman wins 6/10 times against Grayson, 7/10 against cain, and the rest are around 8/10 and 9/10. in a fight without prep time.

 

WITH prep time and this changes dramtically, with Batman beating them all with relative ease, save for Grayson and Drake, who have proven to be quite formidable with prep time.

 

Nonetheless, Batman wins overall. Grayson trails slightly. Cain is tough but she can't compete with the combination of smarts, combat skills and the tech of Batman and Grayson. Game, set and match.

[C.T.]

Batman is a WAYYYY better detective than Tim and don't even get me started on how much higher they listed his intellect.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

:l I have a DC rpg with the entire Bat-family in it (Save for Terry) and It listed Batman as the best fighter of the family, Cassandra Second, and Nightwing 3rd. Batman is a WAYYYY better detective than Tim and don't even get me started on how much higher they listed his intellect. Normally I wouldn't say this could be canon, but I read that they actually got Geoff Johns and the rest of the big names in DC to look over it to agree to the stats. Soooo, yeah. I wouldn't say that Cassandra Cain is the best fighter because honestly, if she was, how could Batman have furthered her training? On the DC Comic Database she received additional training from Batman; she apparently wasn't as good as Batman if he was giving her pointers. Therefore It is safe to say Batman owns the rest in h2h. I can even tell you how much some of them bench press.

 

Batman: 750-800 lbs.

Nightwing: 350-400 lbs.

Red Robin: 250-290 lbs.

Red Hood: 400-450 lbs.

Black Bat: 230-250 lbs.

 

(Batman can lift (Squat) around 1100 lbs. and Nightwing around 950 lbs.)

 

Sooo Idk why you all are saying Cain is the best fighter, because according to Green Ronin (RPG Company), Geoff Johns and his creative staff, she's not, Batman is. And I'm inclined to believe them as well as the DC Comics Database.

Yeah... no. Maybe instead of looking at an obscure DC RPG and a fan-edited wiki, how about you look at the actual comics? Because what the comics say > what some RPG says.

 

And, in the comics:

 

Batman himself has stated that both Cassandra Cain and Dick Grayson are better than him in hand-to-hand fighting.

 

Oracle has stated that Tim Drake is a better detective than Batman.

 

Hell, even by looking at what they've accomplished in the comics, the above should be plain to see. But I can see why you're mixed up, since apparently you've been looking at an obscure, non-canon RPG instead of the actual comics. :/

 

Edit: Oh, and Cassandra Cain's superior combat abilities don't stem from her body reading technique. That's just a bonus she learned. It stems from the fact that Cain is a much better martial artist than Batman ever was.

 

Also, you don't seem to be taking into account the fact that the rest of the Bats family are equipped with gadgets on par with Batman's at all times. And they know Batman jut as well as he knows then.