Iron man VS Optimus Prime

[Guest sirmethos]

That doesn't mean that Hulk beat him you idiot. You explicitly said, and I quote, "Everytime Stark has created a 'buster' armor, he has been defeated by the person that the armor was supposed to 'bust'". This is blatantly wrong and misleading. Hulkbuster MKI was not defeated by Hulk, therefore you- are- wrong. It's plain and simple. Nothing in the panels even mentioned or indicated that the armor sustained damage, forget about it "almost smashed into bits". I never said that the Hulkbuster would have worked against Hulk, because I'm not a dumbass and I don't make retarded assumptions based on little to no evidence. I don't go around saying that Hulkbuster MKI beat Hulk, because it didn't. But it didn't lose either- an obvious fact that you're not aware of.

 

No, you just made it sound like the armor was a lot more efficient than it was, and like Hulk was surrendering, neither of which is true.

 

Also, I never said it was "almost smashed into bits". I said that "it only avoided getting smashed into bits because the fight was halted/interrupted prematurely", which is simply a fact.

 

If you actually look at the fight, the Buster armor wasn't doing any damage to Hulk at all, while(as already said) every punch from Hulk sent Iron Man flying. Unlike Iron Man's machines(that have a limited energy supply), Hulk has unlimited stamina, and while it would likely have taken a while(since it was the weakest version of Hulk), Stark would eventually have ended up with another destroyed armor, if Hulk hadn't halted the fight due to never looking for a fight in the first place.

 

In just 13 pages, Hulk didn't just prove the Hulk-Buster armor to be pretty much worthless, he also made Stark look like an idiot.

 

 

Here is the fight in scans, for those that wish to look for themselves. http://imageshack.us/g/571/ironman30502.jpg/

 

If anyone requests, I'll post the actual scans.

 

 

If Iron Man wins, which he definitely could, it wouldnt be easy.

 

In the Bleeding Edge armor, and possibly in the Extremis armor, it would.

[Guest force_echo]

No, you just made it sound like the armor was a lot more efficient than it was, and like Hulk was surrendering, neither of which is true.

 

Also, I never said it was "almost smashed into bits". I said that "it only avoided getting smashed into bits because the fight was halted/interrupted prematurely", which is simply a fact.

 

If you actually look at the fight, the Buster armor wasn't doing any damage to Hulk at all, while(as already said) every punch from Hulk sent Iron Man flying. Unlike Iron Man's machines(that have a limited energy supply), Hulk has unlimited stamina, and while it would likely have taken a while(since it was the weakest version of Hulk), Stark would eventually have ended up with another destroyed armor, if Hulk hadn't halted the fight due to never looking for a fight in the first place.

 

In just 13 pages, Hulk didn't just prove the Hulk-Buster armor to be pretty much worthless, he also made Stark look like an idiot.

 

 

Here is the fight in scans, for those that wish to look for themselves. http://imageshack.us/g/571/ironman30502.jpg/

 

If anyone requests, I'll post the actual scans.

No, I did neither, if you knew how to read, you would see that my last post was expelling that notion. I never said anywhere that Iron Man beat the Hulk in that encounter. If I wanted to give examples of him beating the Hulk, I have many, from his second golden armor to Bleeding Edge, that are much more impressive.

 

It's not a fact, I think you need to go back to 1st grade and learn what a fact is. What you're saying is a half-assed speculation based on no evidence. The fact was that noone won the fight. Another fact was that you said the Hulk won the fight. I'm not seeing any way you're in the right here.

 

Actually, if you want to speculate, I'll play your game. Instead of depending on comic graphics, the MKI was rated at a base strength of 150 tons, 150% Hulk's strength, and this version can't get stronger. That's Hulk's main advantage taken away from him. Besides, as we can obviously see from the huge textured lettering of Stark's blow on the page, he was obviously hitting harder than Hulk (that's me making fun of your flawed logic, in case you didn't catch that). Besides, Stark also sent Hulk flying, as seen by his head snapping back and the movement lines. Also, for the last two pages before they stopped, Stark was beating the hell out of Hulk, he didn't get a single hit in while Stark was using his face as a speedbag. Plus, there were literally no signs of damage whatsoever on the armor, Hulk's hits obviously didn't effect Stark.

[Guest sirmethos]

No, I did neither, if you knew how to read, you would see that my last post was expelling that notion. I never said anywhere that Iron Man beat the Hulk in that encounter. If I wanted to give examples of him beating the Hulk, I have many, from his second golden armor to Bleeding Edge, that are much more impressive.

 

You didn't?

 

"Hulk didn't even hit him. Iron Man punched him two times, and then Hulk talked him out of fighting."

 

The underlined part is false(i.e. making the armor sound more efficient than it actually was), and you are/were making it sound like Hulk was giving up.

 

 

 

It's not a fact, I think you need to go back to 1st grade and learn what a fact is. What you're saying is a half-assed speculation based on no evidence. The fact was that noone won the fight. Another fact was that you said the Hulk won the fight. I'm not seeing any way you're in the right here.

 

Actually, if you want to speculate, I'll play your game. Instead of depending on comic graphics, the MKI was rated at a base strength of 150 tons, 150% Hulk's strength, and this version can't get stronger. That's Hulk's main advantage taken away from him. Besides, as we can obviously see from the huge textured lettering of Stark's blow on the page, he was obviously hitting harder than Hulk (that's me making fun of your flawed logic, in case you didn't catch that). Besides, Stark also sent Hulk flying, as seen by his head snapping back and the movement lines. Also, for the last two pages before they stopped, Stark was beating the hell out of Hulk, he didn't get a single hit in while Stark was using his face as a speedbag. Plus, there were literally no signs of damage whatsoever on the armor, Hulk's hits obviously didn't effect Stark.

 

Yes, the merged Hulk does get stronger, unlike the others though, he has a limit to how much stronger he can get(a limit that has never been specified).

 

And the armor was rated at 175 tons, not 150.

 

Stark was going all out, trying to take Hulk down, while Hulk was barely making an effort, since he never wanted the fight in the first place. Yet when you look at Hulk at the end of the fight, there is no damage on him at all, despite Iron Man having wailed away at him, like on a punching bag after a bad day.

 

Hell, towards the end of the fight, Hulk even blocked one of Iron Man's hits. That is hardly "Stark beating the hell hout of Hulk" "using his face like a speedbag" "while Hulk didn't get a single hit in".

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: Iron Man didn't have a chance of winning the fight. And as already mentioned, Iron Man's armors have a limited energy supply, which means that eventually, the armor would have stopped working, aside from the purely protective measures(armor plating). On the other side, Hulk has unlimited stamina, which means he could keep pounding on Iron Man at full strength all day.

 

I already said that it would take a while, specifically because this is the weakest version of the Hulk(with only a limited strength upgrade from rage), though Banner's intellect kinda makes up for the lacking raw strength.

 

 

And again, at the end of the fight, there was not a scratch on Hulk, no sign of any damage whatsoever, despite Iron Man pounding on him.

 

[Guest force_echo]

You didn't?

 

"Hulk didn't even hit him. Iron Man punched him two times, and then Hulk talked him out of fighting."

 

The underlined part is false(i.e. making the armor sound more efficient than it actually was), and you are/were making it sound like Hulk was giving up.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the merged Hulk does get stronger, unlike the others though, he has a limit to how much stronger he can get(a limit that has never been specified).

 

And the armor was rated at 175 tons, not 150.

 

Stark was going all out, trying to take Hulk down, while Hulk was barely making an effort, since he never wanted the fight in the first place. Yet when you look at Hulk at the end of the fight, there is no damage on him at all, despite Iron Man having wailed away at him, like on a punching bag after a bad day.

 

Hell, towards the end of the fight, Hulk even blocked one of Iron Man's hits. That is hardly "Stark beating the hell hout of Hulk" "using his face like a speedbag" "while Hulk didn't get a single hit in".

 

Conclusion: Iron Man didn't have a chance of winning the fight. And as already mentioned, Iron Man's armors have a limited energy supply, which means that eventually, the armor would have stopped working, aside from the purely protective measures(armor plating). On the other side, Hulk has unlimited stamina, which means he could keep pounding on Iron Man at full strength all day.

 

I already said that it would take a while, specifically because this is the weakest version of the Hulk(with only a limited strength upgrade from rage), though Banner's intellect kinda makes up for the lacking raw strength.

 

 

And again, at the end of the fight, there was not a scratch on Hulk, no sign of any damage whatsoever, despite Iron Man pounding on him.

Are you f*cking retarded? No, are you serious? You're really telling me that Hulk didn't take any damage? Show me where on Iron Man there were any signs of battle, THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF DAMAGE ON HIM EITHER. Also, I like how you keep avoiding the fact, that you were blatantly wrong. Whether or not Hulk would have won, he didn't. And you said he did.

 

Then how does Iron Man EVER win a fight against the Hulk? Iron Man beat Hulk in his SECOND armor. I'm pretty sure the power supply on his armor was upgraded manyfold, stamina isn't an issue. Besides that, Iron Man is stronger, and tactically smarter than Banner.

 

How was I wrong, Hulk DIDN'T get any hits in. The image is right in f*cking front of you, why don't you look at it? Also, that grimace on his face, that looked like it hurt. Basically, the last page of the fight was just Iron Man hitting the Hulk repeatedly. Which I said, and which was right.

[Guest sirmethos]

Are you f*cking retarded? No, are you serious? You're really telling me that Hulk didn't take any damage? Show me where on Iron Man there were any signs of battle, THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF DAMAGE ON HIM EITHER. Also, I like how you keep avoiding the fact, that you were blatantly wrong. Whether or not Hulk would have won, he didn't. And you said he did.

 

Then how does Iron Man EVER win a fight against the Hulk? Iron Man beat Hulk in his SECOND armor. I'm pretty sure the power supply on his armor was upgraded manyfold, stamina isn't an issue. Besides that, Iron Man is stronger, and tactically smarter than Banner.

 

How was I wrong, Hulk DIDN'T get any hits in. The image is right in f*cking front of you, why don't you look at it? Also, that grimace on his face, that looked like it hurt. Basically, the last page of the fight was just Iron Man hitting the Hulk repeatedly. Which I said, and which was right.

 

"the last page of the fight was just Iron Man hitting the Hulk repeatedly. Which I said, and which was right."

 

Yea, the last page of the fight. You just ignored the previous 12 pages of the fight.

 

As for the grimace on his face, if a small kid punches you in the stomach/solar plexus or in the face(which is the general areas he hits Hulk), you make a grimace as well, doesn't particularly mean that the kid has actually done any damage. Why? Because despite the kid being too weak to actually hurt you, it still causes a degree of pain. Same issue here.

 

And I'm not avoiding anything. You seem to be retracting your words with every other post though.

 

At first, you were saying that the fight consisted of 2 hits from Iron Man, while Hulk got no hits in, no mention of it being "the last page" or last few pages or anything like that.

 

Then you said that for the last 2 pages, Iron Man was beating Hulk like a speed-bag, despite the fact that Hulk actually dodges one of his punches, and blocks another.

 

Now you're down to focusing on the last page.

 

You should at least try being consistent.

 

 

 

First page (and first picture of second) of the fight:Iron Man is flying after a punch from Hulk

 

 

Fifth page of the fight: Iron Man goes flying again, after a backhand from Hulk

 

 

Seventh page of the fight: Iron Man gets knocked back after a punch from Hulk

 

 

That is far from "Hulk didn't get a single punch in", as you put it.

 

Not to mention Banner making Stark look like an idiot at the end of the fight.

 

 

 

Facts:

 

1. Stark is wearing an armor specifically designed to take down the Hulk.

2. Stark went in, with the purpose of taking Hulk down.

3. Hulk never wanted to fight in the first place, wanting to deal with the issue at hand logically instead.

4. Despite the specialized armor, and Stark aiming to take down Hulk. Hulk didn't have a scratch on him at the end of the fight.

 

Yes, the eventual outcome of the fight(had it continued) is speculation, though logical speculation. But everything we do on this site is speculation. Hell, it's the main purpose of the site(cbub).

 

Facts that the speculation is based on:

 

1. Despite the armor being specifically built to take down Hulk, Hulk took no actual damage from the fight, despite Iron Man beating on him like a punching bag.

2. Even in calm state, Hulk was sending Stark flying with his punches, which drains his energy. And Hulk can(and most likely would) get stronger as the fight progresses, though severely less so than his other, more powerful, versions.

3. Iron Man's armor has a limited power supply, while Hulk has unlimited stamina.

4. This version of Hulk has Banner's intellect as well, which removes Stark's usual main advantage(the merged Hulk has proven on several occasions to be tactically minded, as leader of the Pantheon, among other times).

 

If the fight had kept going, Hulk is intelligent(and tactically minded) enough, to keep the fight going and use his advantages(namely his stamina). As seen in the fight, Stark wasn't particularly in a mindset to use his usual tactical flair, which removes his other usual main advantage. Eventually, the armor would either have run out of power, at which point Hulk would rip it off of Stark, or Stark would have run away. Either way, the end result would be the same: Hulk Wins.

 

 

As for why I say that Hulk won the fight, it's pretty simple and you're a fairly intelligent guy, so I'm actually surprised that you haven't seen it/figured it out yourself(though your usual bias towards Iron Man, though better than it has been, might play a part in that). Stark went in there looking for a fight, he went in with the goal of taking Hulk down, while Hulk came there, not to fight, but to find a peaceful solution to the issue at hand. What happened in the end? Did Iron Man come out victorious, taking Hulk down as he intended? No, quite the opposite, things went exactly as Hulk wanted, and things were solved through peaceful means. That = a win for Hulk in this case.

 

 

As for how Iron Man "usually" wins against Hulk. On the few times that he has actually won, it has been due to his(as already mentioned) two main advantages, Intelligence, and tactics/strategy. Hulk has always been the more powerful one when the two of them has fought, so Iron Man has generally outsmarted him one way or another, proving that Brains beats Brawn.

[Guest skadoosh]

In the Bleeding Edge armor, and possibly in the Extremis armor, it would.

 

Not really. Duramantium Steel is something Iron Man has not encountered before, if im correct in assuming that the Avengers/Transformers crossover wasnt cannon, as most crossovers arnt. So, Stark will have to adapt during the fight, and seeing as Starks armor is normally equipt to fight whoever or whatever hes fighting because hes planned for it and adapted the armor accordingly, hes not used to fighting something he isnt at least a little prepared for. Not to mention Primes sheer physical strength and firepower, his superior size and tactical knowledge, and his ability to scan almost any machine and transform into it, which would all make the whole fight a lot harder for Stark.

 

I actually think Stark would probably win, but, essentially, by cheating; tricking Prime into falling into a volcano, or something ridiculous like that, because Stark cant straight-up kill him himself.

[Guest sirmethos]

Not really. Duramantium Steel is something Iron Man has not encountered before, if im correct in assuming that the Avengers/Transformers crossover wasnt cannon, as most crossovers arnt. So, Stark will have to adapt during the fight, and seeing as Starks armor is normally equipt to fight whoever or whatever hes fighting because hes planned for it and adapted the armor accordingly, hes not used to fighting something he isnt at least a little prepared for. Not to mention Primes sheer physical strength and firepower, his superior size and tactical knowledge, and his ability to scan almost any machine and transform into it, which would all make the whole fight a lot harder for Stark.

 

I actually think Stark would probably win, but, essentially, by cheating; tricking Prime into falling into a volcano, or something ridiculous like that, because Stark cant straight-up kill him himself.

 

In the Bleeding Edge armor, Stark has repulsors powerful enough to destroy the planet in a single blast, he has anti-matter bullets, he has shields powerful enough to tank several nukes, even at only 10% shield energy, he has the capability of drawing energy from the surrounding area to power his energy blasts(basically making blasts more powerful than his own internal power source), he has a copy of the Spider-Sense. The armor can repair itself almost instantly, despite being nearly completely destroyed(happened against an alternate reality version of Scarlet Witch, who was a Horseman of Apocalypse). Additionally, the armor upgrades Stark himself(especially his brain) and gives him superhuman intelligence and learning abilities.

 

 

The purely destructive capabilities of the Bleeding Edge armor is more than enough to take out Optimus Prime, he simply can't take that kind of punishment, while the defensive measures effectively renders Optimus unable to damage him(Optimus simply isn't capable of dishing out that much damage). While the upgrades to Tony's own brain, will allow him to think circles around the Autobot.

 

 

Personally, I am far from a fan of the Bleeding Edge armor(I think it's overpowered), but I can't deny the raw power of the armor, that puts Iron Man in a completely new league, compared to his earlier armors.

[Twogunkid]

In the Bleeding Edge armor, Stark has repulsors powerful enough to destroy the planet in a single blast, he has anti-matter bullets, he has shields powerful enough to tank several nukes, even at only 10% shield energy, he has the capability of drawing energy from the surrounding area to power his energy blasts(basically making blasts more powerful than his own internal power source), he has a copy of the Spider-Sense. The armor can repair itself almost instantly, despite being nearly completely destroyed(happened against an alternate reality version of Scarlet Witch, who was a Horseman of Apocalypse). Additionally, the armor upgrades Stark himself(especially his brain) and gives him superhuman intelligence and learning abilities.

 

 

The purely destructive capabilities of the Bleeding Edge armor is more than enough to take out Optimus Prime, he simply can't take that kind of punishment, while the defensive measures effectively renders Optimus unable to damage him(Optimus simply isn't capable of dishing out that much damage). While the upgrades to Tony's own brain, will allow him to think circles around the Autobot.

 

 

Personally, I am far from a fan of the Bleeding Edge armor(I think it's overpowered), but I can't deny the raw power of the armor, that puts Iron Man in a completely new league, compared to his earlier armors.

This is why I really want Tony to get killed off. They want to make him into friggin cosmic level in a tin can.

[Guest Spytheman]

In the Bleeding Edge armor, Stark has repulsors powerful enough to destroy the planet in a single blast, he has anti-matter bullets, he has shields powerful enough to tank several nukes, even at only 10% shield energy, he has the capability of drawing energy from the surrounding area to power his energy blasts(basically making blasts more powerful than his own internal power source), he has a copy of the Spider-Sense. The armor can repair itself almost instantly, despite being nearly completely destroyed(happened against an alternate reality version of Scarlet Witch, who was a Horseman of Apocalypse). Additionally, the armor upgrades Stark himself(especially his brain) and gives him superhuman intelligence and learning abilities.

Are you f*cking serious????

[Guest force_echo]

"the last page of the fight was just Iron Man hitting the Hulk repeatedly. Which I said, and which was right."

 

Yea, the last page of the fight. You just ignored the previous 12 pages of the fight.

 

As for the grimace on his face, if a small kid punches you in the stomach/solar plexus or in the face(which is the general areas he hits Hulk), you make a grimace as well, doesn't particularly mean that the kid has actually done any damage. Why? Because despite the kid being too weak to actually hurt you, it still causes a degree of pain. Same issue here.

 

And I'm not avoiding anything. You seem to be retracting your words with every other post though.

 

At first, you were saying that the fight consisted of 2 hits from Iron Man, while Hulk got no hits in, no mention of it being "the last page" or last few pages or anything like that.

 

Then you said that for the last 2 pages, Iron Man was beating Hulk like a speed-bag, despite the fact that Hulk actually dodges one of his punches, and blocks another.

 

Now you're down to focusing on the last page.

 

You should at least try being consistent.

 

 

 

First page (and first picture of second) of the fight:Iron Man is flying after a punch from Hulk

 

 

Fifth page of the fight: Iron Man goes flying again, after a backhand from Hulk

 

 

Seventh page of the fight: Iron Man gets knocked back after a punch from Hulk

 

 

That is far from "Hulk didn't get a single punch in", as you put it.

 

Not to mention Banner making Stark look like an idiot at the end of the fight.

 

 

 

Facts:

 

1. Stark is wearing an armor specifically designed to take down the Hulk.

2. Stark went in, with the purpose of taking Hulk down.

3. Hulk never wanted to fight in the first place, wanting to deal with the issue at hand logically instead.

4. Despite the specialized armor, and Stark aiming to take down Hulk. Hulk didn't have a scratch on him at the end of the fight.

 

Yes, the eventual outcome of the fight(had it continued) is speculation, though logical speculation. But everything we do on this site is speculation. Hell, it's the main purpose of the site(cbub).

 

Facts that the speculation is based on:

 

1. Despite the armor being specifically built to take down Hulk, Hulk took no actual damage from the fight, despite Iron Man beating on him like a punching bag.

2. Even in calm state, Hulk was sending Stark flying with his punches, which drains his energy. And Hulk can(and most likely would) get stronger as the fight progresses, though severely less so than his other, more powerful, versions.

3. Iron Man's armor has a limited power supply, while Hulk has unlimited stamina.

4. This version of Hulk has Banner's intellect as well, which removes Stark's usual main advantage(the merged Hulk has proven on several occasions to be tactically minded, as leader of the Pantheon, among other times).

 

If the fight had kept going, Hulk is intelligent(and tactically minded) enough, to keep the fight going and use his advantages(namely his stamina). As seen in the fight, Stark wasn't particularly in a mindset to use his usual tactical flair, which removes his other usual main advantage. Eventually, the armor would either have run out of power, at which point Hulk would rip it off of Stark, or Stark would have run away. Either way, the end result would be the same: Hulk Wins.

 

 

As for why I say that Hulk won the fight, it's pretty simple and you're a fairly intelligent guy, so I'm actually surprised that you haven't seen it/figured it out yourself(though your usual bias towards Iron Man, though better than it has been, might play a part in that). Stark went in there looking for a fight, he went in with the goal of taking Hulk down, while Hulk came there, not to fight, but to find a peaceful solution to the issue at hand. What happened in the end? Did Iron Man come out victorious, taking Hulk down as he intended? No, quite the opposite, things went exactly as Hulk wanted, and things were solved through peaceful means. That = a win for Hulk in this case.

 

 

As for how Iron Man "usually" wins against Hulk. On the few times that he has actually won, it has been due to his(as already mentioned) two main advantages, Intelligence, and tactics/strategy. Hulk has always been the more powerful one when the two of them has fought, so Iron Man has generally outsmarted him one way or another, proving that Brains beats Brawn.

/i admit the first one was false due to a bad recollection of said events, but just because Hulk blocked one punch doesn't mean that Iron Man didn't dominate the last two pages of the fight, which, as I correctly said, were Stark beating on Hulk, with Hulk getting no hits in. A boxer getting pummeled will certainly block a few hits with his gaurd, doesn't change the fact that he's still getting his ass beat.

 

1. The fight didn't go on long enough for EITHER combatants to incur any damage. For like the 5th time, Stark had no scratches on his armor either, despite "being sent flying". Hulk's attacks weren't effective at all.

2. Being sent flying wouldn't drain his energy, staying in place taking the punches would. Its basic physics: if you resist the force, more of it is transferred to the physical frame. If you move in direction of the force, the energy transferred is significantly less.

3. Power has never been an issue in Iron Man's battles with the Hulk. It's safely assumed that he has enough energy to last the fight. Besides, the energy of the suit is going down at a fixed rate, its constantly recharging from solar energy and other sources. He can also absorb the energy of Hulk's punches if he needs stimulus.

4. He's not as tactically minded as Stark. Banner's intellect is more geared towards making interdimensional portals, Stark's intellect comes from an engineering/problem solving stand point, i.e much more intuitive in a combat situation. Cap stated that Stark is the greatest tactician he knows. Yeah, Hulk showed great intelligence when he was duped in the Pantheon by the man in charge. That takes real smarts.

 

I think that Iron Man would win the fight. But I can't say that, because he didn't. I can't use that as a feat. That's like using the feat where Sentry beat Galactus, even though we've never seen it happen.

 

Iron Man didn't come there to beat the hell out Hulk, he went out there to solve the problem and thought that violence was the only way Hulk would respond from experience. So when both of them resolved, technically it was a victory for Stark too, because he achieved his initial goal. So now I guess I can go around saying that Hulkbuster MKI can beat Hulk, because of that ridiculous and misleading technicality. The Hulkbuster worked.

[Guest force_echo]

This is why I really want Tony to get killed off. They want to make him into friggin cosmic level in a tin can.

Too bad he's still among the best written titles in Marvel's current lineup thanks to Matt Fraction.

[Guest sirmethos]

/i admit the first one was false due to a bad recollection of said events, but just because Hulk blocked one punch doesn't mean that Iron Man didn't dominate the last two pages of the fight, which, as I correctly said, were Stark beating on Hulk, with Hulk getting no hits in. A boxer getting pummeled will certainly block a few hits with his gaurd, doesn't change the fact that he's still getting his ass beat.

 

1. The fight didn't go on long enough for EITHER combatants to incur any damage. For like the 5th time, Stark had no scratches on his armor either, despite "being sent flying". Hulk's attacks weren't effective at all.

2. Being sent flying wouldn't drain his energy, staying in place taking the punches would. Its basic physics: if you resist the force, more of it is transferred to the physical frame. If you move in direction of the force, the energy transferred is significantly less.

3. Power has never been an issue in Iron Man's battles with the Hulk. It's safely assumed that he has enough energy to last the fight. Besides, the energy of the suit is going down at a fixed rate, its constantly recharging from solar energy and other sources. He can also absorb the energy of Hulk's punches if he needs stimulus.

4. He's not as tactically minded as Stark. Banner's intellect is more geared towards making interdimensional portals, Stark's intellect comes from an engineering/problem solving stand point, i.e much more intuitive in a combat situation. Cap stated that Stark is the greatest tactician he knows. Yeah, Hulk showed great intelligence when he was duped in the Pantheon by the man in charge. That takes real smarts.

 

I think that Iron Man would win the fight. But I can't say that, because he didn't. I can't use that as a feat. That's like using the feat where Sentry beat Galactus, even though we've never seen it happen.

 

Iron Man didn't come there to beat the hell out Hulk, he went out there to solve the problem and thought that violence was the only way Hulk would respond from experience. So when both of them resolved, technically it was a victory for Stark too, because he achieved his initial goal. So now I guess I can go around saying that Hulkbuster MKI can beat Hulk, because of that ridiculous and misleading technicality. The Hulkbuster worked.

 

Being sent flying drains energy, because Stark has to use energy to fly back each time.

 

Iron Man didn't start absorbing energy until later on. If he was capable of absorbing the energy of Hulk's punches, then he should have defeated him every time they've fought, yet Hulk has still won most of them.

 

It's true that Banner's intellect is generally geared more towards science than combat, but the Merged Hulk isn't completely Banner, it's a different personality with a different skill-set, while not as tactically minded as Stark, he is still considerably more tactically minded than Banner, as well as the other versions of Hulk(barring WWH). While Stark still has an advantage in terms of Tactics, the advantage is a lot less than it usually is.

 

As for Iron Man having "enough energy to last the fight". As already said, the Iron Man armor doesn't have unlimited energy(he has actually run out of energy a few times in the past), while Hulk does have unlimited stamina. Hence, Hulk can keep going for as long as it takes, while Iron Man will eventually run out of energy.

 

and Iron Man not coming there to take down Hulk? It was directly said that Iron Man came there to pick a fight.

 

 

Finally: "I think that Iron Man would win the fight. But I can't say that, because he didn't. I can't use that as a feat. That's like using the feat where Sentry beat Galactus, even though we've never seen it happen."

 

I'm well aware that you think Iron Man would win, as I already pointed out, you tend to have some bias in favor of Iron Man. However, you don't seem to be backing that particular speculation up with any facts.

 

 

Too bad he's still among the best written titles in Marvel's current lineup thanks to Matt Fraction.

 

True. Though with Marvel's current work, that's not particularly saying much. But I agree that Iron Man is currently pretty well written(despite my dislike of the Bleeding Edge armor). Tony seems to be finally getting back to the character he used to be, after the whole fubar period that culminated with the Civil War.

[Guest force_echo]

Being sent flying drains energy, because Stark has to use energy to fly back each time.

 

Iron Man didn't start absorbing energy until later on. If he was capable of absorbing the energy of Hulk's punches, then he should have defeated him every time they've fought, yet Hulk has still won most of them.

 

It's true that Banner's intellect is generally geared more towards science than combat, but the Merged Hulk isn't completely Banner, it's a different personality with a different skill-set, while not as tactically minded as Stark, he is still considerably more tactically minded than Banner, as well as the other versions of Hulk(barring WWH). While Stark still has an advantage in terms of Tactics, the advantage is a lot less than it usually is.

 

As for Iron Man having "enough energy to last the fight". As already said, the Iron Man armor doesn't have unlimited energy(he has actually run out of energy a few times in the past), while Hulk does have unlimited stamina. Hence, Hulk can keep going for as long as it takes, while Iron Man will eventually run out of energy.

 

and Iron Man not coming there to take down Hulk? It was directly said that Iron Man came there to pick a fight.

 

 

Finally: "I think that Iron Man would win the fight. But I can't say that, because he didn't. I can't use that as a feat. That's like using the feat where Sentry beat Galactus, even though we've never seen it happen."

 

I'm well aware that you think Iron Man would win, as I already pointed out, you tend to have some bias in favor of Iron Man. However, you don't seem to be backing that particular speculation up with any facts.

Or, you know, he could just wait for Hulk to come to him...

 

I don't understand, do you just support comic mechanics when it BENEFITS your argument? Cause if I believed in that stuff, this would be the perfect oppurtunity to bring it up.

 

Again, if Stark didn't run out of energy fighting Hulk on his earlier armors, what makes you think a later armor, with an upgraded power supply, would run out? He has run out of energy in the past, but not in his Hulk fights, although he did come close in that one fight in his classic armor (he beat Hulk in that fight btw). Besides, Iron Man's energy is constantly regenerating via supercooled capacitators, and near 100% efficient solar cells.

 

Yes, because he believed that violence was the only thing Hulk responded to, from experience. But at the core, Stark was simply trying to resolve the issue.

 

Except I do. A) Stark showed no damage from Hulk's attack. Stark is CONSIDERABLY stronger than Hulk's base level strength, and this Hulk can't increase strength like the other ones.

[Guest Djgambrell]

Yes, because he believed that violence was the only thing Hulk responded to, from experience. But at the core, Stark was simply trying to resolve the issue.

 

Except I do. A) Stark showed no damage from Hulk's attack. Stark is CONSIDERABLY stronger than Hulk's base level strength, and this Hulk can't increase strength like the other ones.

Just a few things.

 

Simply trying to resolve the issue

 

Because his fists obviously transfer his words into hulks face.

 

CONSIDERABLY stronger

 

75 tons? Meh. Not really.

 

Hulk can't increase strength like the other ones.

 

Yes he does. Just has a limit on this one.

[Guest force_echo]

Just a few things.

 

Simply trying to resolve the issue

 

Because his fists obviously transfer his words into hulks face.

 

CONSIDERABLY stronger

 

75 tons? Meh. Not really.

 

Hulk can't increase strength like the other ones.

 

Yes he does. Just has a limit on this one.

For the third time, violence was the only methodology Stark felt like he could use. Doesn't change the fact that the core objective was to solve the problem. Violence was only a means to a mutual end. Why do you think Stark stopped fighting Hulk once he offered up a treaty? Because Stark's core objective wasn't to beat up the Hulk, it was to solve the issue at hand.

 

Lol, 75 tons is 75% of the Hulk's original base strength. So yes, that is a lot.

 

By "like the other ones" I mean "in the same manner as the other Hulks can".

[Guest sirmethos]

-snip-

 

"Or, you know, he could just wait for Hulk to come to him..."

 

He could, but he generally doesn't. In the fight in question, he comes flying right back to the fight after both times he is sent flying.

 

"I don't understand, do you just support comic mechanics when it BENEFITS your argument? Cause if I believed in that stuff, this would be the perfect oppurtunity to bring it up."

 

No, Comics Mechanics is a part of every single comic, it's part of the makes the stories interesting(no one wants to read about <insert character name> handling the issue in the first 2 pages).

 

 

"Again, if Stark didn't run out of energy fighting Hulk on his earlier armors, what makes you think a later armor, with an upgraded power supply, would run out? He has run out of energy in the past, but not in his Hulk fights, although he did come close in that one fight in his classic armor (he beat Hulk in that fight btw). Besides, Iron Man's energy is constantly regenerating via supercooled capacitators, and near 100% efficient solar cells."

 

Stark didn't run out of energy in his earlier fights with Hulk, because he generally outsmarted him and used his superior tactical abilities to his advantage, instead of trying to take Hulk on an even footing(slugmatch, like WWH's PIS match against Sentry). Against the Merged Hulk that he is dealing with here, he won't be able to do that, hence the fight would actually last long enough for him to run out of energy(or run away when he starts running low). There is also no indication of him constantly regenerating his energy supplies, not until later armors at least.

 

 

"Yes, because he believed that violence was the only thing Hulk responded to, from experience. But at the core, Stark was simply trying to resolve the issue."

 

Now who's speculating. It's true that he believed that violence was the only way to deal with Hulk, and due to that, he came there picking a fight, with the intention of taking Hulk down. Instead, he got smacked around by Hulk a few times, before Hulk let him go wild for a while, then talked some sense into him. Hulk was well aware(according to the comic at least) that Stark came with that particular mindset, hence letting him get it out of his system to the point where he was clear headed enough to actually listen to reason.

 

"Except I do. A) Stark showed no damage from Hulk's attack. B ) Stark is CONSIDERABLY stronger than Hulk's base level strength, and this Hulk can't increase strength like the other ones."

 

A. True, however, Hulk never wanted to fight in the first place, and wasn't actually trying to hurt him. Just a few smacks to try getting him out of his funk. B. First part is true. 175 tons compared to 100 tons. The second part however(as I've already said several times at this point) is not true. The Merged Hulk does have the ability to increase his strength through Anger, just like the other versions. Unlike the other versions though, he has a limit on how much his strength/anger can be increased. Once he passes that limit he reverts back to Banner(the limit has conveniently never been specified though).

[Guest Djgambrell]

(the limit has conveniently never been specified though).

Well whats a powerful feat?

[Guest sirmethos]

Well whats a powerful feat?

 

Do a little reading yourself

 

I highly dislike the use of 'feats', so unless it's absolutely necessary, I won't post them.

 

I can recommend reading Hulk: Future Imperfect, where the Merged Hulk is transported to the future where Maestro(an alternate version of Hulk) rules. That particular storyline has some nice 'feats' for the Merged Hulk

 

I can also recommend reading: Warlock and the Infinity Watch. Issues 12 and 13, where the Merged Hulk fights against Drax.

[Guest Djgambrell]

Do a little reading yourself

I'm broke

[Guest sirmethos]

I'm broke

 

Then download the comics instead.

 

I have absolutely no access to anywhere I can buy comics myself, I keep myself with comics by downloading them.

 

Once in a while(when I get around someplace where I can actually buy comics), I buy some of the ones I really liked.

 

On the computer I have an obscene amount of comics, and in physical form, I have about three thousand comics(give or take), not counting the entire Dragonball collection, or the ridiculous amount of disney comics/collections.

[Guest force_echo]

"Or, you know, he could just wait for Hulk to come to him..."

 

He could, but he generally doesn't. In the fight in question, he comes flying right back to the fight after both times he is sent flying.

 

"I don't understand, do you just support comic mechanics when it BENEFITS your argument? Cause if I believed in that stuff, this would be the perfect oppurtunity to bring it up."

 

No, Comics Mechanics is a part of every single comic, it's part of the makes the stories interesting(no one wants to read about <insert character name> handling the issue in the first 2 pages).

 

 

"Again, if Stark didn't run out of energy fighting Hulk on his earlier armors, what makes you think a later armor, with an upgraded power supply, would run out? He has run out of energy in the past, but not in his Hulk fights, although he did come close in that one fight in his classic armor (he beat Hulk in that fight btw). Besides, Iron Man's energy is constantly regenerating via supercooled capacitators, and near 100% efficient solar cells."

 

Stark didn't run out of energy in his earlier fights with Hulk, because he generally outsmarted him and used his superior tactical abilities to his advantage, instead of trying to take Hulk on an even footing(slugmatch, like WWH's PIS match against Sentry). Against the Merged Hulk that he is dealing with here, he won't be able to do that, hence the fight would actually last long enough for him to run out of energy(or run away when he starts running low). There is also no indication of him constantly regenerating his energy supplies, not until later armors at least.

 

 

"Yes, because he believed that violence was the only thing Hulk responded to, from experience. But at the core, Stark was simply trying to resolve the issue."

 

Now who's speculating. It's true that he believed that violence was the only way to deal with Hulk, and due to that, he came there picking a fight, with the intention of taking Hulk down. Instead, he got smacked around by Hulk a few times, before Hulk let him go wild for a while, then talked some sense into him. Hulk was well aware(according to the comic at least) that Stark came with that particular mindset, hence letting him get it out of his system to the point where he was clear headed enough to actually listen to reason.

 

"Except I do. A) Stark showed no damage from Hulk's attack. B ) Stark is CONSIDERABLY stronger than Hulk's base level strength, and this Hulk can't increase strength like the other ones."

 

A. True, however, Hulk never wanted to fight in the first place, and wasn't actually trying to hurt him. Just a few smacks to try getting him out of his funk. B. First part is true. 175 tons compared to 100 tons. The second part however(as I've already said several times at this point) is not true. The Merged Hulk does have the ability to increase his strength through Anger, just like the other versions. Unlike the other versions though, he has a limit on how much his strength/anger can be increased. Once he passes that limit he reverts back to Banner(the limit has conveniently never been specified though).

Right, I doubt the fight would last long enough either way to take into account the energy needed to fly 10 feet, when the armor is capable of reaching orbital velocities.

 

Exactly, now you should see, according to you, why Iron Man doesn't win every battle against the Hulk.

 

Uhm, no. The Hulkbuster is an extension of the Modular Armor, which had the ability to quickly regenerate energy via nearly 100% solar cells.

 

Exactly, so Stark achieved his goal of resolving the situation.

 

I meant that Hulk doesn't get angry in the same manner as the others do. He's limited against a stronger foe, and he has no advantages whatsoever, while Stark has a few. Those are winning conditions.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Right, I doubt the fight would last long enough either way to take into account the energy needed to fly 10 feet, when the armor is capable of reaching orbital velocities.

 

Exactly, now you should see, according to you, why Iron Man doesn't win every battle against the Hulk.

 

Uhm, no. The Hulkbuster is an extension of the Modular Armor, which had the ability to quickly regenerate energy via nearly 100% solar cells.

 

Exactly, so Stark achieved his goal of resolving the situation.

 

I meant that Hulk doesn't get angry in the same manner as the others do. He's limited against a stronger foe, and he has no advantages whatsoever, while Stark has a few. Those are winning conditions.

 

You clearly need to read the comic again. The entire point of the issue is the irony of Hulk being calm and level headed, while Iron Man is hoping for a fight and jumping to conclusions.

[Guest Justabox]

In the Bleeding Edge armor, Stark has repulsors powerful enough to destroy the planet in a single blast, he has anti-matter bullets, he has shields powerful enough to tank several nukes, even at only 10% shield energy, he has the capability of drawing energy from the surrounding area to power his energy blasts(basically making blasts more powerful than his own internal power source), he has a copy of the Spider-Sense. The armor can repair itself almost instantly, despite being nearly completely destroyed(happened against an alternate reality version of Scarlet Witch, who was a Horseman of Apocalypse). Additionally, the armor upgrades Stark himself(especially his brain) and gives him superhuman intelligence and learning abilities.

 

 

The purely destructive capabilities of the Bleeding Edge armor is more than enough to take out Optimus Prime, he simply can't take that kind of punishment, while the defensive measures effectively renders Optimus unable to damage him(Optimus simply isn't capable of dishing out that much damage). While the upgrades to Tony's own brain, will allow him to think circles around the Autobot.

 

 

Personally, I am far from a fan of the Bleeding Edge armor(I think it's overpowered), but I can't deny the raw power of the armor, that puts Iron Man in a completely new league, compared to his earlier armors.

Talk about overpowered. You got any proof of these claims (specifically the planet destroying replusor blast)?

[Guest force_echo]

The Omnibeam can fire in billions of Petawatts at max output for a relatively sustained amount of time. That's far greater than the amount of energy needed to completely destroy a planet, in fact, that's about the output of a G-Type Star. Even his normal repulsor rays can put out enough energy to ignite nuclear fusion in the targets and make them burn at over twice the temperature of the surface of the Sun.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

Define "destroy." Because the release of a few billion Petawatts isn't enough to flat-out blow up the Earth.