Guest Redemption X Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 -Superboy-Prime -Black Adam -Darkseid -The Fury -The Sentry -Ultraman Can they defeat Dark Phoenix in a fight, or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Isn't Dark Phoenix a reality manipulator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MarvelFan15 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Which version of The Fury is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "Can they defeat Dark Phoenix in a fight, or not? " Yes, they can. Quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Pymp(mex) Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "Can they defeat Dark Phoenix in a fight, or not? " Yes, they can. Quite easily. you like using the phrase "Quite Easily" name one guy that is a galactic threat?The Sentry isn't, Black Adam isn't, but the other guys are? I don't know them. But I do know that the phoenix can destroy solar systems in one shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bladephyre Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 you like using the phrase "Quite Easily" name one guy that is a galactic threat?The Sentry isn't, Black Adam isn't, but the other guys are? I don't know them. But I do know that the phoenix can destroy solar systems in one shot. There is a huge difference in The Phoenix, and Dark Phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 you like using the phrase "Quite Easily" name one guy that is a galactic threat?The Sentry isn't, Black Adam isn't, but the other guys are? I don't know them. But I do know that the phoenix can destroy solar systems in one shot. And how does this affect the teams ability to beat her? Hell, most of them could beat her 1on1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Pymp(mex) Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And how does this affect the teams ability to beat her? Hell, most of them could beat her 1on1. What? Solar system buster able to take that damage can withstand any version of Sentry superbly can't absorb mind rapingBlack Adam wouldn't even get close with her telekinesis ad yeah put a bunch of sharks vs a submarine scenario Fearsome as they are they are nothing to her full wrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What? Solar system buster able to take that damage can withstand any version of Sentry superbly can't absorb mind rapingBlack Adam wouldn't even get close with her telekinesis ad yeah put a bunch of sharks vs a submarine scenario Fearsome as they are they are nothing to her full wrath -sigh- Ok, I'll explain it in simple and easy to understand terms. Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force in human form(an identical copy of Jean Grey's body). Dark Phoenix(and Jean Grey) in her human body, has the reflexes and speed(not to mention Durability), of a regular human(though a well-trained one). On the team, every single member has speed and reflexes far beyond human peak, and 4 of them are considerably faster than light. Every one of those 4, can hit Dark Phoenix before she can even think, let alone react. This is the same weakness that most high-level Reality Warpers(and probability manipulators) has. A weakness that most people seem to completely ignore, but it is there nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comic_book_fan Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 -sigh- Ok, I'll explain it in simple and easy to understand terms. Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force in human form(an identical copy of Jean Grey's body). Dark Phoenix(and Jean Grey) in her human body, has the reflexes and speed(not to mention Durability), of a regular human(though a well-trained one). On the team, every single member has speed and reflexes far beyond human peak, and 4 of them are considerably faster than light. Every one of those 4, can hit Dark Phoenix before she can even think, let alone react. This is the same weakness that most high-level Reality Warpers(and probability manipulators) has. A weakness that most people seem to completely ignore, but it is there nonetheless.darkphoenix has ripped gladiator in half and can not be hurt by physical means while she is in control the only time she has been hurt is when jean took control long enough to let them destroy her body still did nothing to the phoenix and so yes if jean wants them to kill her they can if not then the team dies . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 darkphoenix has ripped gladiator in half and can not be hurt by physical means while she is in control the only time she has been hurt is when jean took control long enough to let them destroy her body still did nothing to the phoenix and so yes if jean wants them to kill her they can if not then the team dies . No one in the comics attacked her at super human speeds, and the reason that she was never hurt by physical means, is due to her protecting herself with telekinesis. If the team attacks her before she can protect herself, then she goes *splat*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 -sigh- Ok, I'll explain it in simple and easy to understand terms. Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force in human form(an identical copy of Jean Grey's body). Dark Phoenix(and Jean Grey) in her human body, has the reflexes and speed(not to mention Durability), of a regular human(though a well-trained one). On the team, every single member has speed and reflexes far beyond human peak, and 4 of them are considerably faster than light. Every one of those 4, can hit Dark Phoenix before she can even think, let alone react. This is the same weakness that most high-level Reality Warpers(and probability manipulators) has. A weakness that most people seem to completely ignore, but it is there nonetheless. Dark Phoenix is the full power of the Phoenix Force unleashed/not holding back. DarkP in a stomp. Dark Phoenix powers not being interupted buy Jean wont even let her die. One sided stomp fight for Dark P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Dark Phoenix is the full power of the Phoenix Force unleashed/not holding back. DarkP in a stomp. Dark Phoenix powers not being interupted buy Jean wont even let her die. One sided stomp fight for Dark P.What, exactly, is Phoenix going to do to avoid being speed-blitzed before she can even react? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What, exactly, is Phoenix going to do to avoid being speed-blitzed before she can even react? The Phoenix Force enables her to die and be reborn. With the mastery of the PF she has nothing to fear from a speed blitz because it cant even harm her. She can stand in a supernova with no harm to her, a speed blitz does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What, exactly, is Phoenix going to do to avoid being speed-blitzed before she can even react? For ur scenario to work she must not be aware of herself having the Phoenix Force backing her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The Phoenix Force enables her to die and be reborn. With the mastery of the PF she has nothing to fear from a speed blitz because it cant even harm her. She can stand in a supernova with no harm to her, a speed blitz does nothing. The reason that "she can stand a supernova with no harm to her", is due to her protecting herself with telekinesis. A speed blitz would hit her before she can get her shields up. I.e. she would, for all intents and purposes, have the durability of a normal human when she gets hit. Once that happens, the Phoenix Force would be released from the physical body, and Dark Phoenix no longer exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The reason that "she can stand a supernova with no harm to her", is due to her protecting herself with telekinesis. A speed blitz would hit her before she can get her shields up. I.e. she would, for all intents and purposes, have the durability of a normal human when she gets hit. Once that happens, the Phoenix Force would be released from the physical body, and Dark Phoenix no longer exists. No clearly you dont understand, she does not need to put sheilds up as Dark Phoenix, shields dont factor in. With the power of Dark Phoenix she cant be hurt at all by anything less powerful then her. You would need Eternity or Death to harm her. She is only vulnerable when Jean trys to surpress its power and no where does it state that is going on. All it says in can they beat her. No they can not if she is truely Dark Phoenix at the time. It the person posted more info rather then can they beat her things might change. With so little info I assume they mean she is truely Dark Phoenix not a lame Jean Grey surpressing the Phoenix Force power. She shit stomps them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 No clearly you dont understand, she does not need to put sheilds up as Dark Phoenix, shields dont factor in. With the power of Dark Phoenix she cant be hurt at all by anything less powerful then her. You would need Eternity or Death to harm her. She is only vulnerable when Jean trys to surpress its power and no where does it state that is going on. All it says in can they beat her. No they can not if she is truely Dark Phoenix at the time. It the person posted more info rather then can they beat her things might change. With so little info I assume they mean she is truely Dark Phoenix not a lame Jean Grey surpressing the Phoenix Force power. She shit stomps them. Not true. Dark Phoenix is physically, for all intents and purposes, purely human(or mutant if you want to get technical about it). If you, to give an example, were to walk up to her while she was sleeping, and shoot her in the head with a gun, then her body would die, and the Phoenix Force would be released. The same thing would happen here, once she gets hit by 4(possibly only 3) heavy hitters at speeds close to the speed of light(i.e. Dark Phoenix's body goes *splat* and the Phoenix Force is released). The fact that she is in a purely human body, is the reason she became Dark Phoenix in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shellsbut Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Not true. Dark Phoenix is physically, for all intents and purposes, purely human(or mutant if you want to get technical about it). If you, to give an example, were to walk up to her while she was sleeping, and shoot her in the head with a gun, then her body would die, and the Phoenix Force would be released. The same thing would happen here, once she gets hit by 4(possibly only 3) heavy hitters at speeds close to the speed of light(i.e. Dark Phoenix's body goes *splat* and the Phoenix Force is released). The fact that she is in a purely human body, is the reason she became Dark Phoenix in the first place. No The entity consumes her. She and the Entity are one. Her Human body is as the Phoenix Force itself. Oh and she can moves far faster then lightspeed. She destroys them all. I dont think you understand Dark Phoenix concept, you are stuck on the Phoenix Force while struggling with Jeans influence. Dark Phoenix IS the Phoenix Force itself without Jean battling for control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 No The entity consumes her. She and the Entity are one. Her Human body is as the Phoenix Force itself. Oh and she can moves far faster then lightspeed. She destroys them all. I dont think you understand Dark Phoenix concept, you are stuck on the Phoenix Force while struggling with Jeans influence. Dark Phoenix IS the Phoenix Force itself without Jean battling for control. Not quite. Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix, she never has been. The Dark Phoenix was the Phoenix Force in a copy of Jean's body(created by the Phoenix Force itself, using Jean Grey's memories), that had been driven mad. At the time of the Dark Phoenix, Jean Grey was comatose, still being healed in a cocoon(again, created by the Phoenix Force). The whole point of the Dark Phoenix, was that the Phoenix Force itself, was in a mortal, human body and was driven crazy. There was never any changes made to her physical form. And no, she can not move at the speed of light, nor can she react at that speed. What she can do, is create portals that allows her to travel almost instantly, to pretty much anywhere in the universe. She is, however, still limited by her physical body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comic_book_fan Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Not quite. Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix, she never has been. The Dark Phoenix was the Phoenix Force in a copy of Jean's body(created by the Phoenix Force itself, using Jean Grey's memories), that had been driven mad. At the time of the Dark Phoenix, Jean Grey was comatose, still being healed in a cocoon(again, created by the Phoenix Force). The whole point of the Dark Phoenix, was that the Phoenix Force itself, was in a mortal, human body and was driven crazy. There was never any changes made to her physical form. And no, she can not move at the speed of light, nor can she react at that speed. What she can do, is create portals that allows her to travel almost instantly, to pretty much anywhere in the universe. She is, however, still limited by her physical body.in x-men the end casandra nova while controled by the phoenix ripped gladiator's head off.and in one of her first aperinces she beat down firelord who is faster then light.so yeah dp can move faster then light and no one here can realy hurt her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 in x-men the end casandra nova while controled by the phoenix ripped gladiator's head off.and in one of her first aperinces she beat down firelord who is faster then light.so yeah dp can move faster then light and no one here can realy hurt her. 1. X-men: The End, is not canon in the 616 continuity. 2. Firelord is not faster than light(just like Silver Surfer, he jumps into Hyperspace once he passes the speed of light) 3. Dark Phoenix has regular human speed and reflexes/reaction time, and is physically a regular human/mutant. Though, tell you what. If you can provide a scan(or give provide me with the comics issue) of Dark Phoenix moving and reacting faster than light, then I'll concede the argument right there. On the other hand, just to make it fair, if no one has provided a scan within the next 48 hours(should be more than enough time), or if the comics issue does not show DP moving and reacting faster than light, then I'll consider that as the rest of you conceding the argument. After all, if she really can move and react faster than light, as you claim, then it should be easy to find proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allicew Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 1. X-men: The End, is not canon in the 616 continuity. 2. Firelord is not faster than light(just like Silver Surfer, he jumps into Hyperspace once he passes the speed of light) 3. Dark Phoenix has regular human speed and reflexes/reaction time, and is physically a regular human/mutant. Though, tell you what. If you can provide a scan(or give provide me with the comics issue) of Dark Phoenix moving and reacting faster than light, then I'll concede the argument right there. On the other hand, just to make it fair, if no one has provided a scan within the next 48 hours(should be more than enough time), or if the comics issue does not show DP moving and reacting faster than light, then I'll consider that as the rest of you conceding the argument. After all, if she really can move and react faster than light, as you claim, then it should be easy to find proof. Sorry but Dark Phoenix wins rather easily. As the embodiment ofthe Phoenix Force she has almost no equal. The only time she has been vulnerable is when Jean has struggled to keep the power at bay. You are wrong on this point. As dark Phoenix she was again as stated only vulnerable when Jean is struggling for control. no where does it say that is happening so consider her to be at full power which means a stomp for the entity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Sorry but Dark Phoenix wins rather easily. As the embodiment ofthe Phoenix Force she has almost no equal. The only time she has been vulnerable is when Jean has struggled to keep the power at bay. You are wrong on this point. As dark Phoenix she was again as stated only vulnerable when Jean is struggling for control. no where does it say that is happening so consider her to be at full power which means a stomp for the entity It's remarkable how people can be quite knowledgeable about the comics, and yet so ignorant. I'll try to explain it so it's easy to understand. The Dark Phoenix's physical body, was created by the Phoenix Force as an identical copy of Jean Grey's body. The Dark Phoenix's mind contained Jean Grey's memories, copied from Jean Grey's mind. Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix, she never has been. From the point where Jean Grey saved the X-men, and nearly died in the process, the person that the X-men thought was Jean Grey, was in fact, the Phoenix Force in a physical body. The Phoenix Force, in its (relatively)newly created body, eventually went mad and became the Dark Phoenix. There has never been any "struggle for control" from Jean Grey, because at the time the Dark Phoenix was active, Jean Grey was comatose in a cocoon under-water. The personality that was struggling for control is an aspect of the Phoenix Force. Again: 1. The physical body of the Dark Phoenix is purely human/mortal. 2. Dark Phoenix, limited by her physical body, does not have FTL reflexes, nor is she capable of moving FTL. 3. Dark Phoenix, due to the limitations of her physical body, does not have access to the full power of the Phoenix Force(though even a fraction of that power is still ridiculously powerful). I completely agree with you, that if Dark Phoenix actually uses her powers to attack the team, then the team is almost instantly annihilated. However, Dark Phoenix, just like 99% of all Reality Warpers, has the weakness of purely human reflexes, durability, and speed. Thus, the team(of which 4 of them are FTL) are more than capable, of hitting the Dark Phoenix, before her powers actually come into play. Aka. Dark Phoenix go *splat* and the Phoenix Force is released from its physical body, and the Dark Phoenix has ceased to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comic_book_fan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's remarkable how people can be quite knowledgeable about the comics, and yet so ignorant. I'll try to explain it so it's easy to understand. The Dark Phoenix's physical body, was created by the Phoenix Force as an identical copy of Jean Grey's body. The Dark Phoenix's mind contained Jean Grey's memories, copied from Jean Grey's mind. Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix, she never has been. From the point where Jean Grey saved the X-men, and nearly died in the process, the person that the X-men thought was Jean Grey, was in fact, the Phoenix Force in a physical body. The Phoenix Force, in its (relatively)newly created body, eventually went mad and became the Dark Phoenix. There has never been any "struggle for control" from Jean Grey, because at the time the Dark Phoenix was active, Jean Grey was comatose in a cocoon under-water. The personality that was struggling for control is an aspect of the Phoenix Force. Again: 1. The physical body of the Dark Phoenix is purely human/mortal. 2. Dark Phoenix, limited by her physical body, does not have FTL reflexes, nor is she capable of moving FTL. 3. Dark Phoenix, due to the limitations of her physical body, does not have access to the full power of the Phoenix Force(though even a fraction of that power is still ridiculously powerful). I completely agree with you, that if Dark Phoenix actually uses her powers to attack the team, then the team is almost instantly annihilated. However, Dark Phoenix, just like 99% of all Reality Warpers, has the weakness of purely human reflexes, durability, and speed. Thus, the team(of which 4 of them are FTL) are more than capable, of hitting the Dark Phoenix, before her powers actually come into play. Aka. Dark Phoenix go *splat* and the Phoenix Force is released from its physical body, and the Dark Phoenix has ceased to exist.1.if she had human durability then when firelord hit her one time she would have been dead but it did not even harm her.2.all hearlds of galactus are hudreds of times faster then light that warp bubble is called hyperspace it is where all things that go that fast travel.3. no she does not fight at those speeds but neither does any of her opponets superboy prime threatened to but he has never gone that fast only the flash has broke the light speed in dc thats how you enter the speed force if any superman or superman like chericter ever broke lightspeed he would have entered the speed force.4. she has also traveld through space and has flown through stars also something a human body can't do.5. when racheal had the phoenix powers wolverine cut right through her head onley for the wounds to close up instantly.6.in x-men 105 the shiar are chaseing her in as fast as they can without going into hyperspace the (the speed of light) and she leavs them sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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