Can this team beat Dark Phoenix?

[Guest sirmethos]

1.if she had human durability then when firelord hit her one time she would have been dead but it did not even harm her.

2.all hearlds of galactus are hudreds of times faster then light that warp bubble is called hyperspace it is where all things that go that fast travel.

3. no she does not fight at those speeds but neither does any of her opponets superboy prime threatened to but he has never gone that fast only the flash has broke the light speed in dc thats how you enter the speed force if any superman or superman like chericter ever broke lightspeed he would have entered the speed force.

4. she has also traveld through space and has flown through stars also something a human body can't do.

5. when racheal had the phoenix powers wolverine cut right through her head onley for the wounds to close up instantly.

6.in x-men 105 the shiar are chaseing her in as fast as they can without going into hyperspace the (the speed of light) and she leavs them sitting.

 

1. Which part of "she uses her Telekinesis to protect herself", is hard to understand?

 

2. All the Heralds of Galactus jump into Hyperspace when they pass the speed of light. Other characters, like Blue Marvel, Sentry, Thor, etc. are fully capable of moving faster than light without jumping into Hyperspace. Hence, the former are incapable of fighting at faster than light speeds, while the latter are very much capable of doing so.

 

3. No, moving faster than light is not how you enter the Speed Force. Superboy, Superman, Superboy-Prime, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc. etc. etc. ad nausem, regularly move at speeds faster than light. Superboy-Prime, Black Adam and Ultraman have even been shown to fight at those speeds(Sentry is capable of it as well, but I can't remember seeing him fighting at those speeds, though I might be mistaken about that one).

 

4. Which part of "she uses her Telekinesis to protect herself", is hard to understand?

 

5. Rachel =/= Dark Phoenix. They are two different characters, with completely different feats, Rachel's feats are useless for the purpose of this fight.

 

6. I'll check the issue and see for myself

[comic_book_fan]

1. Which part of "she uses her Telekinesis to protect herself", is hard to understand?

 

2. All the Heralds of Galactus jump into Hyperspace when they pass the speed of light. Other characters, like Blue Marvel, Sentry, Thor, etc. are fully capable of moving faster than light without jumping into Hyperspace. Hence, the former are incapable of fighting at faster than light speeds, while the latter are very much capable of doing so.

 

3. No, moving faster than light is not how you enter the Speed Force. Superboy, Superman, Superboy-Prime, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc. etc. etc. ad nausem, regularly move at speeds faster than light. Superboy-Prime, Black Adam and Ultraman have even been shown to fight at those speeds(Sentry is capable of it as well, but I can't remember seeing him fighting at those speeds, though I might be mistaken about that one).

 

4. Which part of "she uses her Telekinesis to protect herself", is hard to understand?

 

5. Rachel =/= Dark Phoenix. They are two different characters, with completely different feats, Rachel's feats are useless for the purpose of this fight.

 

6. I'll check the issue and see for myself

lets see some scans that show them fighting at light speed .

[Guest sirmethos]

lets see some scans that show them fighting at light speed .

 

Since I don't want to spam the thread with scans, here are a few scans of FTL combat.

 

Captain Marvel blitzing Bizarro, Solomon Grundy, Parasite(with Superman's powers), and Metallo.

 

 

 

Then we have Captain Marvel(again) catching up to Flash who has lost control of himself.

 

 

 

Wonder Woman showing FTL reflexes

 

 

 

Captain Marvel feats are because it has been directly stated that Black Adam has the exact same powers as Captain Marvel, hence he can do the same things. Black Adam has also gotten a power-up(through gaining Isis' powers) that makes him more powerful. And because he has been stated as being equal to Superman. Ultraman has the exact same powers as Superman, and Superboy-Prime has all of Superman's powers, only more powerful.

 

 

I'm still waiting for scans that shows Dark Phoenix having FTL reflexes, which she would need in order to react to(and survive) a Blitz attack from Superboy-Prime, Black Adam and Ultraman(and possibly Sentry).

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Let's go with sirmethos on saying that dark Phoenix is human physically. That doesn't prevent her from blocking any attack done to her physically and otherwise.

 

She can stop a sun exploding from harming her and that blast was the speed of light. She will rearrange their molecules. She Sid it even in the cartoon and the comic she took out everyone that she came across her.

 

By the way are you implying that wonder woman can beat dark Phoenix?

[Guest sirmethos]

Let's go with sirmethos on saying that dark Phoenix is human physically. That doesn't prevent her from blocking any attack done to her physically and otherwise.

 

She can stop a sun exploding from harming her and that blast was the speed of light. She will rearrange their molecules. She Sid it even in the cartoon and the comic she took out everyone that she came across her.

 

By the way are you implying that wonder woman can beat dark Phoenix?

 

I'm not implying anything, I've flat out said it.

 

As for stopping an exploding sun from damaging her.

"Which part of "she uses her Telekinesis to protect herself", is hard to understand?"

 

When she is in space, she has her telekinetic shield around her to protect her from the vacuum.

 

 

You're absolutely correct in saying that she could block their attacks. but only if she can actually react FTL. Something that people still haven't given any evidence for.

 

 

That said, people have about 42 hours left, to provide scans(or the issues of specific comics) that shows Dark Phoenix being able to move and react faster than light, before I consider the point conceded.

 

As I said earlier, if she actually can do it, then it shouldn't be hard to find proof of it.

[comic_book_fan]

Since I don't want to spam the thread with scans, here are a few scans of FTL combat.

 

Captain Marvel blitzing Bizarro, Solomon Grundy, Parasite(with Superman's powers), and Metallo.

 

 

 

Then we have Captain Marvel(again) catching up to Flash who has lost control of himself.

 

 

 

Wonder Woman showing FTL reflexes

 

 

 

Captain Marvel feats are because it has been directly stated that Black Adam has the exact same powers as Captain Marvel, hence he can do the same things. Black Adam has also gotten a power-up(through gaining Isis' powers) that makes him more powerful. And because he has been stated as being equal to Superman. Ultraman has the exact same powers as Superman, and Superboy-Prime has all of Superman's powers, only more powerful.

 

 

I'm still waiting for scans that shows Dark Phoenix having FTL reflexes, which she would need in order to react to(and survive) a Blitz attack from Superboy-Prime, Black Adam and Ultraman(and possibly Sentry).

you said scan or issue number i already gave you an issue number i don't have a scanner.

[Guest bigballerju]

Are we talking the same Dark Phoenix that did this who Methos seems to be downplaying her abilities and killed billions?

 

 

Are we going to ignore the fact she could teleport Superboy-Prime and Ultraman into a Red Sun easily? Are we going to ignore the rest of her powers? Thank you for showing those scans of FTL however most of the villains in this match usual don't result to FTL from the start of the fight which Methos seems to forget also and will first go to brawl which most of them have showed to be that stupid to do. Also between Dark Phoenix being able to either teleport them wherever she wants (Darkseid would be the only one who that wouldn't work on) and her energy absorption being past Superboy-Prime she is plenty capable of winning this match very easily as well in all sort of ways.

[Guest Bladephyre]

Are we talking the same Dark Phoenix that did this who Methos seems to be downplaying her abilities and killed billions?

Are we going to ignore the fact she could teleport Superboy-Prime and Ultraman into a Red Sun easily? Are we going to ignore the rest of her powers? Thank you for showing those scans of FTL however most of the villains in this match usual don't result to FTL from the start of the fight which Methos seems to forget also and will first go to brawl which most of them have showed to be that stupid to do. Also between Dark Phoenix being able to either teleport them wherever she wants (Darkseid would be the only one who that wouldn't work on) and her energy absorption being past Superboy-Prime she is plenty capable of winning this match very easily as well in all sort of ways.

 

That is a travel speed, not a reaction speed.

She can travel much faster than light, everyone knows that. That does not show her reactions at all, just moving from point A to point B.

[Guest sirmethos]

Are we talking the same Dark Phoenix that did this who Methos seems to be downplaying her abilities and killed billions?

 

 

Are we going to ignore the fact she could teleport Superboy-Prime and Ultraman into a Red Sun easily? Are we going to ignore the rest of her powers? Thank you for showing those scans of FTL however most of the villains in this match usual don't result to FTL from the start of the fight which Methos seems to forget also and will first go to brawl which most of them have showed to be that stupid to do. Also between Dark Phoenix being able to either teleport them wherever she wants (Darkseid would be the only one who that wouldn't work on) and her energy absorption being past Superboy-Prime she is plenty capable of winning this match very easily as well in all sort of ways.

 

I'm not downplaying her abilities.

 

In fact, I've said directly, that if she actually uses her powers, she could annihilate the entire team almost instantly(with the exception of Darkseid).

 

The point is, that they can hit her before she ever has a chance to use her powers. She has no defense against that, since she can't react FTL, or even close to it.

 

 

Edit: It's highly amusing, that there is a bunch of people arguing for the side of Dark Phoenix, and they all show a complete lack of understanding for what is pretty much the core concept of the character.

[Guest bigballerju]

I'm not downplaying her abilities.

 

In fact, I've said directly, that if she actually uses her powers, she could annihilate the entire team almost instantly(with the exception of Darkseid).

 

The point is, that they can hit her before she ever has a chance to use her powers. She has no defense against that, since she can't react FTL, or even close to it.

 

Okay I justed wanted to make sure people realize either side could win the match depending on what there first move is. However most of Team Supermen in comics have shown at first to throw a punch rather then use there head and go about beating there opponent the correct way. The only person who would use there intellect and actually think of taking out Dark Phoenix the smart way is Darkseid.

 

If there smart to start off at FTL speeds from the start of the fight then yes they could win that way however most of them like Black Adam, Prime, and Sentry may not think to do that at first. That definitely goes for Prime and Sentry with there egos.

[comic_book_fan]

how many times have you seen darkphoenix by herself without her defences up this is a fight she will be fighting if she fights everyone dies and did you ever see what i was talking about.

[Guest sirmethos]

Okay I justed wanted to make sure people realize either side could win the match depending on what there first move is. However most of Team Supermen in comics have shown at first to throw a punch rather then use there head and go about beating there opponent the correct way. The only person who would use there intellect and actually think of taking out Dark Phoenix the smart way is Darkseid.

 

If there smart to start off at FTL speeds from the start of the fight then yes they could win that way however most of them like Black Adam, Prime, and Sentry may not think to do that at first. That definitely goes for Prime and Sentry with there egos.

 

The question asked in the OP, is "Can this team beat Dark Phoenix?".

 

The answer to that question is, Yes they can.

 

 

I've never said that there are no scenario's where Dark Phoenix would win. The only thing I've said, the entire time, is "Yes, they can beat Dark Phoenix". Which is simply a fact, due to her having normal human reflexes, and 4 of them are capable of FTL movement/combat.

[Guest bigballerju]

Okay then yes the Team can win depending on how they attack Dark Phoenix from the start.

[Guest shellsbut]

It's remarkable how people can be quite knowledgeable about the comics, and yet so ignorant.

 

I'll try to explain it so it's easy to understand.

 

The Dark Phoenix's physical body, was created by the Phoenix Force as an identical copy of Jean Grey's body.

 

The Dark Phoenix's mind contained Jean Grey's memories, copied from Jean Grey's mind.

 

Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix, she never has been.

 

 

 

From the point where Jean Grey saved the X-men, and nearly died in the process, the person that the X-men thought was Jean Grey, was in fact, the Phoenix Force in a physical body.

 

The Phoenix Force, in its (relatively)newly created body, eventually went mad and became the Dark Phoenix. There has never been any "struggle for control" from Jean Grey, because at the time the Dark Phoenix was active, Jean Grey was comatose in a cocoon under-water. The personality that was struggling for control is an aspect of the Phoenix Force.

 

 

Again:

 

1. The physical body of the Dark Phoenix is purely human/mortal.

 

2. Dark Phoenix, limited by her physical body, does not have FTL reflexes, nor is she capable of moving FTL.

 

3. Dark Phoenix, due to the limitations of her physical body, does not have access to the full power of the Phoenix Force(though even a fraction of that power is still ridiculously powerful).

 

 

I completely agree with you, that if Dark Phoenix actually uses her powers to attack the team, then the team is almost instantly annihilated.

 

However, Dark Phoenix, just like 99% of all Reality Warpers, has the weakness of purely human reflexes, durability, and speed.

 

Thus, the team(of which 4 of them are FTL) are more than capable, of hitting the Dark Phoenix, before her powers actually come into play. Aka. Dark Phoenix go *splat* and the Phoenix Force is released from its physical body, and the Dark Phoenix has ceased to exist.

 

 

You dont know what Dark Phoenix is then. The vessel of Jean Grey is just that a vessel that can die and be rebon infinite times. Dark Phoenix is is the powqer not Jean Grey. You still think of her as the power like i said she is a vessel and only when Jean struggles with restraining that power is she vulnerable (her not the entity) It has already brought her back to life numerous times. she stomps the team in power abilities speed and all else due to the fact it is the Phoenix Force entity. GEt over the Oh its JEan Grey and she is only human. Jean Grey is not even part of the equation. Sorry but powered buy the uncontroled Phoenix Force she is able to move faster then anyone on the list.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

The question asked in the OP, is "Can this team beat Dark Phoenix?".

 

The answer to that question is, Yes they can.

 

 

I've never said that there are no scenario's where Dark Phoenix would win. The only thing I've said, the entire time, is "Yes, they can beat Dark Phoenix". Which is simply a fact, due to her having normal human reflexes, and 4 of them are capable of FTL movement/combat.

 

Do you think Darkseid could solo?

[Guest sirmethos]

You dont know what Dark Phoenix is then. The vessel of Jean Grey is just that a vessel that can die and be rebon infinite times. Dark Phoenix is is the powqer not Jean Grey. You still think of her as the power like i said she is a vessel and only when Jean struggles with restraining that power is she vulnerable (her not the entity) It has already brought her back to life numerous times. she stomps the team in power abilities speed and all else due to the fact it is the Phoenix Force entity. GEt over the Oh its JEan Grey and she is only human. Jean Grey is not even part of the equation. Sorry but powered buy the uncontroled Phoenix Force she is able to move faster then anyone on the list.

 

You're still not getting it.

 

Dark Phoenix is not Jean Grey. Dark Phoenix's body is not Jean Grey.

 

Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force in a physical body, gone mad. And is limited by its physical body. The physical body can die or get destroyed, which would release the Phoenix Force, at which point the Dark Phoenix effectively ceases to exist.

 

 

Also, you keep claiming that Dark Phoenix has the speed and reaction time, to easily take out the entire team, but you're still not providing any proof.

 

That said, you have about 29 hours left, to provide proof

 

 

Do you think Darkseid could solo?

 

In some scenarios, yes. In most scenarios, his physical body would be destroyed in seconds.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

You're still not getting it.

 

Dark Phoenix is not Jean Grey. Dark Phoenix's body is not Jean Grey.

 

Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force in a physical body, gone mad. And is limited by its physical body. The physical body can die or get destroyed, which would release the Phoenix Force, at which point the Dark Phoenix effectively ceases to exist.

 

 

Also, you keep claiming that Dark Phoenix has the speed and reaction time, to easily take out the entire team, but you're still not providing any proof.

 

That said, you have about 29 hours left, to provide proof

 

 

 

 

In some scenarios, yes. In most scenarios, his physical body would be destroyed in seconds.

 

 

whoa, limited to a human body but isn't human? How is the Dark Phoenix limited at all, when it's pure energy based being? She is telekinetic and is not bound to human limits. You ask or proof, and give none to prove that she is even limited and bound to a human body?

 

Just to inform Jean Grey has the Phoenix Force, it learned to love, hate etc via Jeans human emotions and went mad, that version of Jean could kill almost anyone

[Guest sirmethos]

-snip-

 

And you're still getting it wrong.

 

I'll repeat it(once again) Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix.

 

The Dark Phoenix, is the Phoenix Force, in a body created by the Phoenix Force, a copy of Jean Grey's body, with Jean Grey's borrowed memories. But again Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix.

 

 

Now, to answer some of your questions:

 

"How is the Dark Phoenix limited at all, when it's pure energy based being?"

 

Dark Phoenix is not a pure energy based being. The Phoenix Force is a pure energy based being. The Dark Phoenix, is the Phoenix Force in a regular human(mutant) body, and it is limited by being in that body.

 

 

"She is telekinetic and is not bound to human limits."

 

Last I checked, being a telekinetic did not mean that the character is not bound to human limits. Cable is a telekinetic, but is physically still limited to what his body can and cannot do. Psylocke is a telekinetic, but is still limited to what her body can and cannot do. Hellion is a telekinetic, but is physically still limited to what his body can and cannot do. Etc. etc. etc.

 

 

"You ask or proof, and give none to prove that she is even limited and bound to a human body?"

 

First of all. You can't prove a negative. Since you are the ones making the claim(that she is capable of moving and reacting at faster than light speeds), the burden of proof is on you. I am simply saying that your claim is false. Second of all, if you need proof that she is bound to a human body, then you have obviously not read the Phoenix Saga and the Dark Phoenix Saga, and have no place, whatsoever, in this debate.

 

 

"Just to inform Jean Grey has the Phoenix Force, it learned to love, hate etc via Jeans human emotions and went mad, that version of Jean could kill almost anyone"

 

I'll repeat(again): "Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix."

 

When Dark Phoenix was active, Jean Grey was in a coma, in a cocoon underwater.

 

 

Edit: 28 hours left.

[Guest Bladephyre]

whoa, limited to a human body but isn't human? How is the Dark Phoenix limited at all, when it's pure energy based being? She is telekinetic and is not bound to human limits. You ask or proof, and give none to prove that she is even limited and bound to a human body?

 

Just to inform Jean Grey has the Phoenix Force, it learned to love, hate etc via Jeans human emotions and went mad, that version of Jean could kill almost anyone

 

Did you even read the comics or what he said?

 

The Dark Phoenix is NOT a pure energy being, it is an energy being inside a copy of Jean's body. The body is what gives it the limitation of human reactions and durability.

The Phoenix force is a pure energy being.

 

You are getting facts of the Phoenix force confused with the Dark Phoenix.

 

there are 3 main parts here.

 

1. The Phoenix force, energy being.

2. Jean/Phoenix. Phoenix force in Jean's body, the power of the Phoenix but with Jean's reactions, durability, and emotions.

3. Dark Phoenix. Phoenix force, now out of jean, makes a copy of her and inhabits it. Just like the Jean/Phoenix combination but insane from overpowering emotions.

 

This fight is over in less than a second one way or another. One of two things will happen.

 

1. Phoenix gets her shield up and overpowers them. Whether from having them up already, or if they do not attack fast enough.

 

2. She does not get them up in time and she gets splattered.

 

There are 3 things that has to happen for them to win:

 

1. Catch her by surprise: If she sees them first, she will shield up and they are screwed.

2. Jump her when she is on a planet. If she is in space she has to have her shields up already due to simply being in space.

3. Instantly speed blitz. If they do not go for a fast attack fight thing, back to point one.

[comic_book_fan]

And you're still getting it wrong.

 

I'll repeat it(once again) Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix.

 

The Dark Phoenix, is the Phoenix Force, in a body created by the Phoenix Force, a copy of Jean Grey's body, with Jean Grey's borrowed memories. But again Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix.

 

 

Now, to answer some of your questions:

 

"How is the Dark Phoenix limited at all, when it's pure energy based being?"

 

Dark Phoenix is not a pure energy based being. The Phoenix Force is a pure energy based being. The Dark Phoenix, is the Phoenix Force in a regular human(mutant) body, and it is limited by being in that body.

 

 

"She is telekinetic and is not bound to human limits."

 

Last I checked, being a telekinetic did not mean that the character is not bound to human limits. Cable is a telekinetic, but is physically still limited to what his body can and cannot do. Psylocke is a telekinetic, but is still limited to what her body can and cannot do. Hellion is a telekinetic, but is physically still limited to what his body can and cannot do. Etc. etc. etc.

 

 

"You ask or proof, and give none to prove that she is even limited and bound to a human body?"

 

First of all. You can't prove a negative. Since you are the ones making the claim(that she is capable of moving and reacting at faster than light speeds), the burden of proof is on you. I am simply saying that your claim is false. Second of all, if you need proof that she is bound to a human body, then you have obviously not read the Phoenix Saga and the Dark Phoenix Saga, and have no place, whatsoever, in this debate.

 

 

"Just to inform Jean Grey has the Phoenix Force, it learned to love, hate etc via Jeans human emotions and went mad, that version of Jean could kill almost anyone"

 

I'll repeat(again): "Jean Grey is not the Dark Phoenix."

 

When Dark Phoenix was active, Jean Grey was in a coma, in a cocoon underwater.

 

 

Edit: 28 hours left.

but it does not matter that the clone was not realy jean grey because it had all her thoughts and memories and thought that it was her so it acted the same way she would have tring to protect her friends by leting herself become vulnerable so they could stop her his point still stands regardless of the fact that she was not the real jean. also she has to go faster then light to enter hyperspace which means she moves faster then light which means she can react at light speeds if she can react at light then they are hundreds of ways she can kill everyone on this team in one thought.

[kainboa]

but it does not matter that the clone was not realy jean grey because it had all her thoughts and memories and thought that it was her so it acted the same way she would have tring to protect her friends by leting herself become vulnerable so they could stop her his point still stands regardless of the fact that she was not the real jean. also she has to go faster then light to enter hyperspace which means she moves faster then light which means she can react at light speeds if she can react at light then they are hundreds of ways she can kill everyone on this team in one thought.

 

Okay, since you seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of a debate, I'll try to explain it to you.

 

You make a claim, stating that Dark phoenix can move faster than light, since somebody is doubting that claim, you need to provide evidence for it.

 

Methos made a claim about some of the members of the team who are opposing her being capable of fighting at faster than light speed, this claim was doubted, and he provided evidence to support his claim.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

All you are doing is claiming that Dark Phoenix is faster than light, but providing no evidence, since there is no evidence, we cannot accept this claim as true and thus the claim is ignored.

 

Once you actually provide evidence for your claim, it will be considered valid, but until that point, it will have to be generally accepted that she is not faster than light, since there is no evidence to support that particular claim

[Guest sirmethos]

but it does not matter that the clone was not realy jean grey because it had all her thoughts and memories and thought that it was her so it acted the same way she would have tring to protect her friends by leting herself become vulnerable so they could stop her his point still stands regardless of the fact that she was not the real jean. also she has to go faster then light to enter hyperspace which means she moves faster then light which means she can react at light speeds if she can react at light then they are hundreds of ways she can kill everyone on this team in one thought.

 

1. Being able to enter hyperspace does not necessarily mean that you are able to move faster than light. A good example of this is Slipstream, who has the power to open a Hyperspace portal, to travel between any two points in the universe. He can enter Hyperspace, but he can neither Move, nor React at faster than light speeds.

 

2. Being able to travel faster than light, from point A to point B, does not mean you can react at speeds faster than light. Graviton is a good example of this.

 

3. You're still making claims without providing proof. 27 hours left.

[comic_book_fan]

1. Being able to enter hyperspace does not necessarily mean that you are able to move faster than light. A good example of this is Slipstream, who has the power to open a Hyperspace portal, to travel between any two points in the universe. He can enter Hyperspace, but he can neither Move, nor React at faster than light speeds.

 

2. Being able to travel faster than light, from point A to point B, does not mean you can react at speeds faster than light. Graviton is a good example of this.

 

3. You're still making claims without providing proof. 27 hours left.

i gave you feats and i gave you issue numbers and you said you were going to go check them out then you have not responded before now and still have not struck down my claim it is issue 105 in the original phoenix saga

[Guest sirmethos]

i gave you feats and i gave you issue numbers and you said you were going to go check them out then you have not responded before now and still have not struck down my claim it is issue 105 in the original phoenix saga

 

I'm working on getting the comic downloaded as we speak.

 

The feat you say is in that issue though, is only FTL movement, not FTL reflexes.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

I read all the comics, you guys are making false claims

 

1. The Dark Phoenix is nt human as you say, but has human limitations? Yeah that is all wrong, read the comics again guys

 

2. She is pure energy/ telekinetic being that thinks she is bound to a human body, again how is she limited to any human limitations in fact that probably made her stronger she it now knows human emotion such as anger

 

3. If you read the comics watched the shows, she moves beyond light, did she not teleport herself and others to Earth from space? She flew past a shiar ship and plunge into a sun? Has she not opened portals?

 

4. And if everyone is Ftl but not her, how does that make them win? Se is still capable of stopping them telekinetically and would have no shot

 

The burden of proof is on us? Yet you are the ones claiming that since some is Ftl they win automatically? Not so, not even close in this fight

 

Also now you are saying she can move that fast but has limits on her reflexes? Since you are making that false testimony, show proof that se can't react as fast as we say?