Guest Lunacyde Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Characters:Zealot and Midnighter Vs. Gorgon (Tomi Shishido) and Nemesis (Charis of Andrastea) Rules: - Win by KO, Death, Incapacitation-Combatants are fully in character- Standard gear for both teams.- Fight takes place at midday. No time limit.- They start facing each other at 50 paces.-Neither team has any info on their opponent prior to the fight. Setting: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ugh... Why do people keep putting Midnighter in matches? With his powers, he is pretty much unbeatable. Without his powers, he is little more than a moderately skilled martial artist that most Marvel/DC characters could take out. Midnighter vs. Gorgon. Midnighter wins relatively easily. In the mean time, Zealot is more than capable of keeping Nemesis busy during the time it takes Midnighter to take care of Gorgon, after which, Nemesis is as good as dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'd like to say that Midnighter's supposed invincibility hinges on his having fought and dodged attacks from a FTL being (his fight with Apollo). However the flaw in this is that there is no way Apollo was moving anywhere near FTL. Even going perhaps 10x the speed of sound (far, far slower than light speed) would be fatal to anyone close enough to engage in hand to hand combat. The shock wave and sonic boom of such a being moving FTL would vaporize anything around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'd like to say that Midnighter's supposed invincibility hinges on his having fought and dodged attacks from a FTL being (his fight with Apollo). However the flaw in this is that there is no way Apollo was moving anywhere near FTL. Even going perhaps 10x the speed of sound (far, far slower than light speed) would be fatal to anyone close enough to engage in hand to hand combat. The shock wave and sonic boom of such a being moving FTL would vaporize anything around it. 2 errors here. 1. Midnighter's "supposed invincibility", does not hinge on his feats from his fight with Apollo(dodging attacks from someone moving FTL). It comes from a mix of things. A. His Battle Computer, which goes through hundreds of thousands(if not millions) of different outcomes of any fight, in split seconds, before the fight even begins. Which allows him to choose(and use) the most favorable course of action(attacks, feints, dodges, etc.). And which also takes any and all of his opponents' special abilities into account(simplified, when the fight begins, Midnighter already knows all of his opponents' powers, and has a taken them into account in his plans). This means that he knows exactly when and how to move, every split second of the fight, in order to win as fast as possible, with as little injury to himself as possible. B. His speed. The fact that he is capable of speed bursts, fast enough that even Apollo(someone capable of moving and reacting at FTL speeds) couldn't see him move. C. His Healing Factor. This means that even if he needs to take a serious injury to be able to win, he has no trouble doing so, 'cos his injuries will be healed the next day, if not sooner(his healing factor is powerful enough that it beat AIDS in 3 weeks). 2. You seem to be forgetting that these are comic book characters, that live in a world where the laws of physics don't always apply. Spider-Man, for example, has on more than one occasion, taken Mary-Jane for a web-swinging ride, with her hanging onto his back. Despite the fact that the force of web-swinging in the first place, would cause her to lose her grip and plummet to a messy death(not to mention possibly ripping her shoulders out of their sockets). Superman, to give another example, casually catches people who are falling at terminal velocity, and puts them down unharmed, despite the fact that landing in his arms in the first place, should make them go *splat*, just as much as landing on the ground(worse actually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 B. His speed. The fact that he is capable of speed bursts, fast enough that even Apollo(someone capable of moving and reacting at FTL speeds) couldn't see him move.This would imply that he moves FTL. Physically impossible with his limited durability. Yes I know, comics rules and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This would imply that he moves FTL. Physically impossible with his limited durability. Yes I know, comics rules and all that... Physically impossible or not, he has done it on multiple occasions. And it is part of his stated(in the sourcebook) capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hayesmeister5651 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ugh... Why do people keep putting Midnighter in matches?Trying to find a good match for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There is one man who could take him. Someone strong enough to survive all of his attacks. Someone who can kill with the touch of a finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There is one man who could take him. Someone strong enough to survive all of his attacks. Someone who can kill with the touch of a finger. There are plenty of people who could take him down, just not anyone at his(midnighter's) own power level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There is one man who could take him. Someone strong enough to survive all of his attacks. Someone who can kill with the touch of a finger. Chuck Norris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Batman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lunacyde Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ugh... Why do people keep putting Midnighter in matches? With his powers, he is pretty much unbeatable. Without his powers, he is little more than a moderately skilled martial artist that most Marvel/DC characters could take out. Midnighter vs. Gorgon. Midnighter wins relatively easily. In the mean time, Zealot is more than capable of keeping Nemesis busy during the time it takes Midnighter to take care of Gorgon, after which, Nemesis is as good as dead. Except Nemesis herself has beaten Midnighter in the comics. You overrate Midnighter's abilities. To say that he cannot lose here is ridiculous. He has lost to Nemesis. He has been stalemated by Zealot, who has also been defeated and stalemated by Nemesis. Gorgon is physically similar stats-wise to Zealot, not to mention he has Telepathy, stone stare, and a blade that can cut through nearly anything. I'm not saying they will beat Midnighter and Zealot, but to say that they stand no chance of winning is just absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Except Nemesis herself has beaten Midnighter in the comics. You overrate Midnighter's abilities. To say that he cannot lose here is ridiculous. He has lost to Nemesis. He has been stalemated by Zealot, who has also been defeated and stalemated by Nemesis. Gorgon is physically similar stats-wise to Zealot, not to mention he has Telepathy, stone stare, and a blade that can cut through nearly anything. I'm not saying they will beat Midnighter and Zealot, but to say that they stand no chance of winning is just absurd. You're right that Nemesis would in 1on1 matches, have a chance of winning against either of the two. However, Gorgon is the weak link that removes the chances of that team winning. If Gorgon was capable of taking out Midnighter(or occupying him long enough for the Nemesis/Zealot fight to be decided), then the team would have a chance of winning, but he isn't. Zealot is more than capable of keeping Nemesis occupied long enough for Midnighter to take out Gorgon(if nothing else, then because it wouldn't take long). Once Midnighter has taken out Gorgon, the fight becomes Midnighter and Zealot vs. Nemesis, which Nemesis has no chance of winning. Bottom Line: Team 2(Nemesis and Gorgon) has no chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Djgambrell Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe he's not as fast as you say? Maybe he just usually has the element of surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe he's not as fast as you say? Maybe he just usually has the element of surprise? No, his ability to move at that speed in bursts, was given to him specifically so that he would have the element of surprise in any combat. Not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Djgambrell Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No, his ability to move at that speed in bursts, was given to him specifically so that he would have the element of surprise in any combat. Not the other way around.Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lunacyde Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You're right that Nemesis would in 1on1 matches, have a chance of winning against either of the two. However, Gorgon is the weak link that removes the chances of that team winning. If Gorgon was capable of taking out Midnighter(or occupying him long enough for the Nemesis/Zealot fight to be decided), then the team would have a chance of winning, but he isn't. Zealot is more than capable of keeping Nemesis occupied long enough for Midnighter to take out Gorgon(if nothing else, then because it wouldn't take long). Once Midnighter has taken out Gorgon, the fight becomes Midnighter and Zealot vs. Nemesis, which Nemesis has no chance of winning. Bottom Line: Team 2(Nemesis and Gorgon) has no chance of winning. What is to say Nemesis doesn't fight Midnighter with Gorgon taking Zealot? Zealot runs a strong risk of possibly losing against Gorgon. He's fast enough to keep up with her, he is skilled enough to keep up with her, and his telepathy would give him an edge in both those departments. He defeated both Elektra and Wolverine easily without his telepathy, he's tagged speedsters, he's moved so fast Wolverine couldn't detect him. Gorgon also has a considerable healing factor to aid him, and the possibility of using the stone stare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What is to say Nemesis doesn't fight Midnighter with Gorgon taking Zealot? Zealot runs a strong risk of possibly losing against Gorgon. He's fast enough to keep up with her, he is skilled enough to keep up with her, and his telepathy would give him an edge in both those departments. He defeated both Elektra and Wolverine easily without his telepathy, he's tagged speedsters, he's moved so fast Wolverine couldn't detect him. Gorgon also has a considerable healing factor to aid him, and the possibility of using the stone stare. Simple, Nemesis and Zealot are old enemies. Nemesis hates Zealot and would go for her first, likewise Nemesis would be Zealot's chosen target. And since Midnighter would be able to see that, he would target Gorgon right away. As for Zealot fighting Gorgon, you're right about his speed, but skilled enough to keep up with her? Not so much. You're forgetting that the telepathy won't work on Zealot and without that, he would(skill-wise) be considerably out-matched. You are right though, that the stone stare is a possibility, and with just a 1on1 match between the two, that could even possibly give him the win. But it's not just the two of them, and Midnighter, already knowing about it, would warn Zealot about it once they go for their targets. Likewise, Gorgon's Healing Factor isn't really an issue against Zealot. She is used to fighting opponents that needs to be killed before they stop being dangerous, and she is very much capable of that, especially with pre-warning about his abilities(powers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lunacyde Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The fact she can nullify his telepathy, and be notified of his stone stare ability definitely turn things to her advantage. Otherwise I'd continue arguing, but without those key advantages I'd be grasping at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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