Gargoyle VS Predator

[Guest Culwych]

Monsters VS Aliens Round 3

 

VS

 

Description: Gargoyle VS Predator

Location: New York

[Guest sirmethos]

In most cases, the Predator wins.

[RakaiThwei]

In most cases, the Predator wins.

 

Pretty much this...

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[DSkillz]

Yep, gotta give this to a Predator most of the time.

 

Though in the case of Demona, a Predator probably can't kill her.

[Guest skadoosh]

A Gargoyle like Goliath, Hudson, Demona, etc, could easily take down all but perhaps the most heavily-armed veteran Yautja. Only the youngest, least intelligent, least experienced Gargoyles would lose to a Predator.

[Guest Bladephyre]

A Gargoyle like Goliath, Hudson, Demona, etc, could easily take down all but perhaps the most heavily-armed veteran Yautja. Only the youngest, least intelligent, least experienced Gargoyles would lose to a Predator.

 

And where did this lapse in logic come from?

 

Gargoyles are barely trained fighters.

Yautja are trained from the time they can walk to do one thing, hunt.

 

It would take someone like Goliath to come close to matching the strength of even a youngblood.

Any Yautja over the youngblood age would be stronger.

 

Yautja are very focused, they only do like 2 things: Hunt and train.

For the most part the Gargoyles pretty much go about a normal life.

 

Gargoyles live a good while maybe even up to 300 years if they are lucky.

Yautja live even longer, some have been known to live close to 800. Experience is in their favor.

 

For the most part the Gargoyles fight unarmed, and while their claws are sharp they are nothing compared to the wristblades of a Yautja.

With the weapon issue, even if they turn this into a brawl, the Yautja gets a few shallow cuts, the gargoyle gets gutted.

 

Take the best the Gargoyles have:

 

Goliath: He MIGHT be as strong as a youngblood, but he would be slower, less agile, under armed, under trained, is not going to live through the attacks from the wristblades.

Hudson: He might be as trained as a youngblood, but he is older and in even more of a physical disadvantage.

Demona: If she carries a gun of some kind she gets killed fast because of the plasma caster, if not she dies just as fast as the other 2 due to common disadvantages.

 

The only advantage that the Gargoyles have is they can glide, not even really fly in the city. How hard is it to hit a big flying target that has no ranged attacks? Not that hard.

[Guest skadoosh]

There was no lapse in logic, you just disagree with me. Youre being very general about the fight, i wasnt. Now:

 

Gargoyles are the protectors of humans, they are not only trained to fight, but trained to fight properly, in battle. Yautja are trained to hunt. Not fight, hunt. Obviously, much of their hunting skills can be used in a fight, but they are not trained in the same way as Gargoyles. Gargoyles get weaker with age, but so do Yautja. Gargoyles are strong enough to lift and throw cars and tear through solid steel with ease, Yautja, for the most part, are not. Their weapons can cut through helluva lot of stuff, but they Gargoyles also have the advantage of size; the Gargoyles claws are bigger than the Yatja's wrist-blades, and the Gargoyles are bigger overall, so they have the advantage of a longer reach. Also, the Gargoyles have seven limbs to attack the Yautja with. Thats a lot.

 

Also, i stated that i think the Gargoyles would lose to the most experience and heavily-armed Yautja.

 

It depends, obviously. It depends on the Yautja, how old/experienced/physically capable he is, what hes armed with, etc, and it depends on the Gargoyle, how old/experienced/physically capable he is, what hes armed with, etc. It just depends.

[RakaiThwei]

the Gargoyles claws are bigger than the Yautja's wrist-blades

 

The Standard Yautja wristblades are eighteen inches in length. That's a bit more than a foot long.

 

Gargoyles are bigger overall

 

No they aren't.

 

Yautja are in the 7'' to 10'' feet in height range. And those are just the males.

 

Females are bigger, taller, and meaner.

 

Gargoyles are somewhere in the 5'' to 8'' foot range.

 

Gargoyles are strong enough to lift and throw cars and tear through solid steel with ease, Yautja, for the most part, are not.

 

Actually, they are. And those are just the Young Bloods to Bloodeds.

 

Older Yautja like Bloodeds and Elders are MUCH stronger than Unbloodeds and Young Bloodeds.

 

Here is a young Unblooded Predator tearing through a door with his bare hands.. And if I recall right, most colonial installations are built with walls and pressure doors made of steel-titanium.

 

 

And THAT is just a renegade Unblooded doing that.

 

Seriously Skadoosh, I just don't think you like the idea of Predators of manhandling the Gargoyles. If an Unblooded did THAT, then an Elder would have a picnic with the Gargoyles.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest skadoosh]

No, i have reasons for thinking what i think. Dont assume otherwise. Also, stop forgetting that i didnt say "no way could a pred ever take down a gargoyle", or something stupid like that, i actually said i think an experienced and heavily-armed Yautja could take out a Gargoyle, essentially, an Elder could take down Goliath, and i also keep saying that it depends, because it does.

 

When i said bigger i meant bigger. Not longer or taller, bigger. Ive never seen a Yautja that was bigger than a Gargoyle, ive never seen a Yautja lift and throw a car with ease, and ive never seen a Yautja tear through solid steel (Well, not until now, concerning that last one), and ive seen all of the films and read a fair share of the comics, so forgive me for thinking the aforementioned was true, if its not.

 

Also, just by the way, something i forgot to mention before, the Gargoyles can use magic, which could be an easy win for them, if they get the time to use it, but thats both unlikely and not particularly fair.

 

Like i said, it depends.

[RakaiThwei]

No, i have reasons for thinking what i think.

 

For a moment, I thought you were on crack.

 

Also, stop forgetting that i didnt say "no way could a pred ever take down a gargoyle", or something stupid like that, i actually said i think an experienced and heavily-armed Yautja could take out a Gargoyle, essentially, an Elder could take down Goliath, and i also keep saying that it depends, because it does.

 

You obviously haven't seen my Scar Predator vs Goliath fight which I did a year ago. A lot of people said that Scar would've have won that fight, and at the time when I was doing the Scar Predator arc, Scar was a Young Blood.

 

Seriously, comments say that Scar would've won.

 

When i said bigger i meant bigger. Not longer or taller, bigger. Ive never seen a Yautja that was bigger than a Gargoyle, ive never seen a Yautja lift and throw a car with ease, and ive never seen a Yautja tear through solid steel (Well, not until now, concerning that last one), and ive seen all of the films and read a fair share of the comics, so forgive me for thinking the aforementioned was true, if its not.

 

Then you need to carefully word yourself when making a post because right now you are not making any sense.

 

I haven't seen much of Gargoyles, but I have the first movie on VHS and I catch it whenever I can on Disney XD. The Gargoyles are strong, but I would put them in the 2 - 3 ton range. With Yautja, it all depends on the rank and the age. The older the Yautja, the more experienced, the stronger they are. And the average Unblooded would be somewhere in the 2 - 3 ton range. Any Yautja older would be considerably stronger, and there are some rare cases where Veterans and Elders have been able to achieve freakish levels of strength, such as in the case of Scarface Predator in Concrete Jungle, who was insanely strong enough to lift armored doors which were three times his size. Scarface is perhaps eight feet in height, and the doors are twenty four feet in height, two to three feet thick to protect against intruders from coming in said doors.

 

I could provide some video footage of that but there is controversy regarding that feat as neither side for or against have been able to come to a conclusion.

 

And then there are Yautja like Dachande and Smiley Predator, who both have been said to beat down Alien Queens with either their bare hands (Dachande) or their wristblades and bare hands (Smiley). Last time I checked, Queen Aliens were in the 15 - 20 ton range. Here is an example of Smiley with the Queen in question.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that while we don't see the fight between Smiley Predator, we do see that he has sustained a lot of wounds from that Queen Alien and is later on seen dragging the body by the tail and legs. The wounds would suggest that he more than likely stood toe to toe against this Queen and won.

 

You mentioned that you have seen all the films, read some of the comics but really you haven't likely scratched the surface. I've seen the movies, know the timelines each ones follow, read many of the novels which go into FURTHER detail of what Yautja can physically do (i.e. in Big Game, the Predator ripped off the head of a soldier, threw it like a baseball and caused an Humvee to fall over, South China Sea also displays a Yautja knocking over a truck with a punch), and I've played many of the games. I've noted which of the expanded material is canon, and which aren't. I do my best to know what I am talking about concerning the Yautja and what they can do.

 

Though you bring up a point about the magic.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest skadoosh]

I stated what i thought and then explained further. If people dont understand by now then i dont care, im not re-explaining myself again.

 

I wasnt claiming to know more about Predators than you, or anyone else, i was simply stating how much i know about them. And ive seen all the Gargoyles episodes. I dont care what "comments said", i think what i have evidence for, not what the most comments say.

 

As i keep saying, it depends.

[RakaiThwei]

I stated what i thought and then explained further. If people dont understand by now then i dont care, im not re-explaining myself again.

 

So you're just backing out of this? Just running?

 

I wasnt claiming to know more about Predators than you, or anyone else, i was simply stating how much i know about them. And ive seen all the Gargoyles episodes. I dont care what "comments said", i think what i have evidence for, not what the most comments say.

 

Then you suggest that you don't know a lot about Predators. Which is fine, because I could educate them on you about them if you would be willing to learn about them.

 

Hey, this is the whole purpose of debating this topic right now. A lot of people aren't convinced that the Gargoyles could win in most scenarios here, but you seem to think that they can. Which is fine and dandy and all, but please either clarify and show something which is worth bringing to the table.

 

As i keep saying, it depends.

 

And in many scenarios, it would appear that the Yautja would win.

 

If you are going to play Devil's Advocate, then at least put up more of a fight and bring something worth to the table.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[corvette1710]

*Watches, offers popcorn*

[Guest skadoosh]

So you're just backing out of this? Just running?

 

 

 

Then you suggest that you don't know a lot about Predators. Which is fine, because I could educate them on you about them if you would be willing to learn about them.

 

Hey, this is the whole purpose of debating this topic right now. A lot of people aren't convinced that the Gargoyles could win in most scenarios here, but you seem to think that they can. Which is fine and dandy and all, but please either clarify and show something which is worth bringing to the table.

 

 

 

And in many scenarios, it would appear that the Yautja would win.

 

If you are going to play Devil's Advocate, then at least put up more of a fight and bring something worth to the table.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

 

Aw, bro. Dont assume so much. Is that what i said? No, its not. Im not running away, i just cant be bothered to repeat myself. Ive made my points already, ive said what i wanted to say, but it seems to be being ignored, so im not gonna bother. Why would i keep saying something thats being ignored? You keep replying to me like ive said that there is "no freekin way" a Yautja could beat a Gargoyle. Thats not what i said at all. What i said was, essentially, a Gargoyle, for reasons ive already stated, could, depending on the situation, beat a Predator, and vice versa.

 

But, like i keep saying, in vain, it seems, it depends.

 

If its a seasoned, veteran Elder, with centuries of experience and armed with the highest-grade Yautja weapons, most importantly the plasma caster, then it could easily kill a younger, less intelligent Gargoyle. But it couldnt kill, or at least, not easily kill, a Gargoyle like Goliath, who has torn steel and tossed cars with ease, fought a huge variety of foes, from human soldiers of many different armies and times to robots, cyborgs and magical monsters, for hundreds of years, gaining a vast wealth of combat, tactical and magical knowledge, has seven limbs to utilize, can glide, cast spells, and was once called the greatest warrior on Earth.

 

But, then again, a Yautja like Scar could probably take down Hudson, but mostly due to his age and being blind in one eye. But it depends on the Gargoyle and the Yautja and what they have and where they are, etc.

 

It just depends.

[RakaiThwei]

Aw, bro. Dont assume so much. Is that what i said? No, its not. Im not running away, i just cant be bothered to repeat myself. Ive made my points already, ive said what i wanted to say, but it seems to be being ignored, so im not gonna bother. Why would i keep saying something thats being ignored? You keep replying to me like ive said that there is "no freekin way" a Yautja could beat a Gargoyle. Thats not what i said at all. What i said was, essentially, a Gargoyle, for reasons ive already stated, could, depending on the situation, beat a Predator, and vice versa.

 

I am not ignoring your statements. I just simply find them very unlikely to happen is all, and sometimes the way you convey your opinion can be very misleading because of how you word it. I understand your opinion and your reasons, but it's the way you word things which makes it seem like as if Yautja are not able to beat a Gargoyle, especially Goliath.

 

I differ in that opinion because of my knowledge of the Gargoyles and the Yautja.

 

If its a seasoned, veteran Elder, with centuries of experience and armed with the highest-grade Yautja weapons, most importantly the plasma caster, then it could easily kill a younger, less intelligent Gargoyle. But it couldnt kill, or at least, not easily kill, a Gargoyle like Goliath, who has torn steel and tossed cars with ease, fought a huge variety of foes, from human soldiers of many different armies and times to robots, cyborgs and magical monsters, for hundreds of years, gaining a vast wealth of combat, tactical and magical knowledge, has seven limbs to utilize, can glide, cast spells, and was once called the greatest warrior on Earth.

 

This is where we differ.

 

You keep on mentioning the differences in strengths, and still seem to believe that Gargoyles are stronger than Yautja, Elders included perhaps from what you're saying. And as far as my knowledge on the Yautja goes, I would say that it's the complete opposite. A Young Blooded warrior would be able to slaughter many of the Gargoyles, and we're talking about one of the least experienced of Predator rankings out there. You keep on mentioning the Gargoyles or a Gargoyle lifting up a car, well I would be inclined to believe that a Yautja could lift a car, or more depending on his age and strength and physical training.

 

In Batman vs Predator, a car body and steel beams were dropped on the Yautja in question. We're talking 2 to 5 tons, and he survived the drop and was lifting the car body and the support beams off of himself. However that crossover isn't canon, but the feat is never the less true to the character. And then there are the novels which show other feats of strength which the Yautja can do, some of which I have already explained in a post above.

 

And then there is the strength feat of Scarface Predator lifting a large door which was meant to keep hostile intruders out. In-game narration suggested that for a Predator, Scarface was a freak in terms of strength, and we do see him lifting these doors. I can and could post up the link of this feat happening but I will acknowledge that this feat has been criticized and placed under scrutiny by skeptics-- and nothing has been disproven or proven in either for or against this feat. I myself believe in it because it's part of the narrative of the game's storyline and the game is a tie into the Predator, AvP and Alien films.

 

As for fighting cyborgs, robots, and monsters-- Yautja do that all the time in their hunts. Not necessarily fighting demons or fae, but they have some very notable kills under their belts. What kind of other alien life forms they've come across, is hard to say.

 

It just depends.

 

Any set up can be written to the determine the outcome. That much we can agree on.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest skadoosh]

Ok, cool, let me explain as simply as i can then. I am actually completely neutral in this debate, because, like ive said, it depends on the situation, and there could be any number of situations, but im annoyed that ive been replied to as if i was strongly on one side, the Gargoyles side, of this debate.

 

When i stated Goliath's feats i was just stating his feats, not trying to say they were superior to those of a Yautja, just stating them. But the only point i want to get across, what ive been trying to convey the whole time, is this:

 

I think that a Yautja could easily beat a Gargoyle and a Gargoyle could easily beat a Yautja depending on the situation.

 

Do you understand that?

[RakaiThwei]

Ok, cool, let me explain as simply as i can then. I am actually completely neutral in this debate, because, like ive said, it depends on the situation, and there could be any number of situations, but im annoyed that ive been replied to as if i was strongly on one side, the Gargoyles side, of this debate.

 

I understand how you feel.

 

Sometimes it's all about wording your argument. I mean sometimes when I try and debate with SirMethos, it's hard to debate with him because he'll either say: "Oh, all that wall of text and no argument has been presented at all whatsoever" but sometimes when I carefully choose my words and refute his argument, then he understands where I am coming from.

 

It's all about wording yourself and your argument.

 

When i stated Goliath's feats i was just stating his feats, not trying to say they were superior to those of a Yautja, just stating them. But the only point i want to get across, what ive been trying to convey the whole time, is this:

 

I think that a Yautja could easily beat a Gargoyle and a Gargoyle could easily beat a Yautja depending on the situation.

 

Do you understand that?

 

Okay then, but you didn't word yourself correctly then. Had you chosen your words better, than I would've been able to understand what you were saying.

 

Again, it all depends on the set up.

 

Given that there is lack of on here, most people are going to assume that this is just a straight up fight. Any match up can be written in a way which determines the outcome.

 

So yes, I do understand.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest skadoosh]

Okay then, but you didn't word yourself correctly then. Had you chosen your words better, than I would've been able to understand what you were saying.

 

Again, it all depends on the set up.

 

 

So yes, I do understand.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

 

I worded myself fine, you just didnt understand me. Just because one person doesnt understand you doesnt mean what youve said is incorrect, thats ridiculous. But im sorry i didnt word myself in a way that you could understand, and im glad ive gotten my point across now.

 

Thats what ive been saying all along. It depends.

 

Good.

 

 

Now, im gonna go to bed. Its 2am where i am, and i dont know about you lot, but thats a reasonable time for me to go to sleep.

[DSkillz]

Just gonna take a quick break from watching the Lakers/Celtics game here.

 

I'm probably as big a fan of the Gargoyles as anybody here, but yeah, most Gargoyles would lose against the average Predator, whether it's through their arsenal or an Elder's strength and weapons advantage. I'd like to dispute a few things, though:

 

Demona: If she carries a gun of some kind she gets killed fast because of the plasma caster, if not she dies just as fast as the other 2 due to common disadvantages.

 

Don't forget, though, that Demona is functionally immortal. Every time she's been "killed" in her millennium + of living, she's resurrected in minutes. The only being that can kill her is MacBeth, and vice versa. So, any confrontation between her and a Predator would likely end in a stalemate, at least.

 

Here is a young Unblooded Predator tearing through a door with his bare hands.. And if I recall right, most colonial installations are built with walls and pressure doors made of steel-titanium.

 

 

And THAT is just a renegade Unblooded doing that.

 

Goliath's got a few feats that compare to that. Here's one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-kN6Gpvx9E#t=1m17s

 

He just kind of casually snatched that vault door aside, too. Imagine if he had pulled at it with all his strength.

 

So, Goliath just may last awhile against an Unblooded, at least until the Pred starts using his more exotic weapons.

 

Of course, he'd get crushed by any higher ranked Pred.

[Guest Bladephyre]

There was no lapse in logic, you just disagree with me. Youre being very general about the fight, i wasnt. Now:

 

Gargoyles are the protectors of humans, they are not only trained to fight, but trained to fight properly, in battle. Yautja are trained to hunt. Not fight, hunt. Obviously, much of their hunting skills can be used in a fight, but they are not trained in the same way as Gargoyles. Gargoyles get weaker with age, but so do Yautja. Gargoyles are strong enough to lift and throw cars and tear through solid steel with ease, Yautja, for the most part, are not. Their weapons can cut through helluva lot of stuff, but they Gargoyles also have the advantage of size; the Gargoyles claws are bigger than the Yatja's wrist-blades, and the Gargoyles are bigger overall, so they have the advantage of a longer reach. Also, the Gargoyles have seven limbs to attack the Yautja with. Thats a lot.

 

Also, i stated that i think the Gargoyles would lose to the most experience and heavily-armed Yautja.

 

It depends, obviously. It depends on the Yautja, how old/experienced/physically capable he is, what hes armed with, etc, and it depends on the Gargoyle, how old/experienced/physically capable he is, what hes armed with, etc. It just depends.

 

How is this wording your argument correctly but us misunderstanding?

 

You exactly said, "Yautja are trained to hunt. Not fight, hunt" Which is wrong, they are extremely trained to fight, they are an honorable but mostly barbaric race, they fight all the time, that would be like saying that the Vikings were just sailors not fighters.

 

You exactly said: "Gargoyles get weaker with age, but so do Yautja" Which is also wrong, the older the yautja gets the actually get MUCH stronger an unblooded can easily lift at least a ton, it would be close to actually say 2 tons. The elders lift well over 10. Goliath, easily the strongest Gargoyle would be lucky to be 3 tons, and that is giving him credit.

 

You exactly said: "Gargoyles also have the advantage in size." Even Goliath, again the biggest and strongest gargoyle is as stated in the show "a little over 7 feet tall and over 300 lbs." Which the weight is far too low on, Goliath would easily be at 450. A yautja is on average, is well over 7 feet. "Shorty" The Yautja who was considered the smallest of his clan was 6'8". It would take the biggest and strongest gargoyle there is to match the size and strength of an undersized yautja.

 

You exactly said: "the Gargoyles claws are bigger than the Yatja's wrist-blades, and the Gargoyles are bigger overall, so they have the advantage of a longer reach." Which is wrong on all 3 points. The length of the Yautja wrist blades average 18 inches, at least 10 or so inches go past their hands, which makes their reach even longer. as stated only Goliath was even close to the size of a Yautja, they do not have a size advantage or a reach advantage.

 

That is not you being misunderstood, that is you just plain wrong.

 

You are using Goliath as an example of a normal gargoyle that would be like saying Paul White is an example of a normal human.

 

The gargoyles are more or less human size, just stronger. Every gargoyle except Goliath would be MUCH smaller and weaker than even the smallest Yautja.

Taking Goliath as being a normal gargoyle, would be like saying that Dachande is a normal Yautja.

 

It would take the strongest and most powerful of the gargoyles to match up with even a youngblood.

 

Also on top of all that the gargoyles do not have the killer instinct that Yautja do, they do not go into a fight trying to kill their enemies and rip them apart, the Yautja do.

[Guest Bladephyre]

Just gonna take a quick break from watching the Lakers/Celtics game here.

 

I'm probably as big a fan of the Gargoyles as anybody here, but yeah, most Gargoyles would lose against the average Predator, whether it's through their arsenal or an Elder's strength and weapons advantage. I'd like to dispute a few things, though:

 

Don't forget, though, that Demona is functionally immortal. Every time she's been "killed" in her millennium + of living, she's resurrected in minutes. The only being that can kill her is MacBeth, and vice versa. So, any confrontation between her and a Predator would likely end in a stalemate, at least.

 

Dying and coming back is still dying. She gets a smoking hole put in her chest and dies. Getting up in a few minutes does not matter, at that point the Yautja kills her again, or if she is lucky he has taken a trophy and left.

 

Also in the clip Goliath just moved a Vault door, it was not even shut, he overpowerd some girl and threw a door open enough to break the hinges, honestly not even as impressive as him lifting a car over his head.

[Guest skadoosh]

How is this wording your argument correctly but us misunderstanding?

 

You seem to have misunderstood literally everything i said. Not that it matters, i wasnt trying to get my point across to you.

[Guest Bladephyre]

You seem to have misunderstood literally everything i said. Not that it matters, i wasnt trying to get my point across to you.

 

There is no misunderstanding what you wrote.

You stated what you thought were facts, you were wrong.

If you simply call being wrong, being misunderstood, that is your problem.

Also who cares who you are trying to get the point across to, I was the first person to point out how stupid your argument was. Just because you went on to argue with someone else does not mean that only the person you are talking to has an opinion.

[Guest skadoosh]

There is no misunderstanding what you wrote.

You stated what you thought were facts, you were wrong.

If you simply call being wrong, being misunderstood, that is your problem.

Also who cares who you are trying to get the point across to, I was the first person to point out how stupid your argument was. Just because you went on to argue with someone else does not mean that only the person you are talking to has an opinion.

 

See? Misunderstanding.

[Indolent]