Match 11392 Ghost Rider (Blaze) and Spawn vs. Darkseid and Thanos

[Guest .Big Game James.]

December 21st 2012: Judgement Day

 

While the JLA and Avengers sat in their HQ's planning on a way to save their world's on such a horrible day something extraordinary took place. The weather began to shift and the clouds turned gray. Matter from the Marvel and DC universe started emerging together. The heroes realized Judgement Day was even worse than they had pictured. All heroes from every universe will eventually clash with all the villains from every universe and it could possibly destroy existence as we know it. The battle for world domination may never end. Every channel is broadcasting live from different parts of the world witnessing destruction. While in the merging of the universes something almost even worse than judgement day itself may took place....Two of the most feared villains in the history of the multiverse have managed to come in contact with one another. Darkseid and Thanos have came into terms that their powers together could easily destroy humanity and most of all, superheroes. They have planned to terrorize Earth both using their immeasurable love for greed and power. While in the merging of DC and Marvel universes another universe leaked into the transformation as well. None other than the Image Universe. What both tyrants don't know is two of Earth's most HELLACIOUS heroes have also combined their abilities together to put and end to Darkseid and Thanos' evil schemes. Spawn and Ghost Rider must defend Earth against possibly two of the most feared foes ever known. Can Simmons and Blaze take down the true faces of evil or will evil prevail and proceed to exterminate more heroes? You decide....

 

All combatants are at normal ability level. no god spawn, pre-crisis darkseid, infinity gauntlet etc. unless it'd make the fight better lol let me know.

[Callisto]

Learn More About

Spawn

Read more about Spawn at Wikipedia

Official Site: Todd McFarlane Productions Links: Spawn Wikipedia Toonopedia Spawn

 

Ghost Rider (Blaze)

Read more about Ghost Rider (Blaze) at Wikipedia

Official Site: Marvel Comics Links: Wiki-Ghost Rider Marvel Directory Marvel-Ghost Rider

 

Thanos

Read more about Thanos at Wikipedia

Official Site: Marvel Comics Links: Thanos' Wiki Profile The Marvel Directory: Thanos Marvel's Official Page on Thanos

 

Darkseid

Read more about Darkseid at Wikipedia

Official Site: DC Comics Links: Wikipedia: Darkseid DC Database: Darkseid JLA Watchtower: Darkseid

 

 

[Guest The Lord Dragon Reborn]

I like the match, can't wait for the setup

[Guest .Big Game James.]

there it is...let me know what ya think

[Guest anu]

stalemate. surely in physical strength there is a difference but you got two supernatural beings vs two cosmic beings. Darkseid isn't classified as that yet he should be. Neither of them can kill one another and the only slight advantage may be the penance stare on Darkseid if he has a soul at all. Neither side wins

[xLEGACYx]

stalemate. surely in physical strength there is a difference but you got two supernatural beings vs two cosmic beings. Darkseid isn't classified as that yet he should be. Neither of them can kill one another and the only slight advantage may be the penance stare on Darkseid if he has a soul at all. Neither side wins

last I checked Darkseid was considered a cosmic being due to being a new god. Its just the definition of a cosmic being is defferent between Marvel and DC. Ive seen statements by DC that say beings on the caliber of Darkseid, Superman, Orion, Ion, Earth-3 Alexander Luthor, Superboy-Prime and Parallax are considered cosmic beings.

[Guest .Big Game James.]

last I checked Darkseid was considered a cosmic being due to being a new god. Its just the definition of a cosmic being is defferent between Marvel and DC. Ive seen statements by DC that say beings on the caliber of Darkseid, Superman, Orion, Ion, Earth-3 Alexander Luthor, Superboy-Prime and Parallax are considered cosmic beings.

who does the fight go to?

[Guest anu]

It's pointless. You have four characters that can't die. So why debate it? Even if it was debated people would go to the same arguments time and time again. Thanos is virtually everything superman is without flight, Thanos can't die, etc, etc.

[baneblade]

This is not so simple as 'who beats whom. I do not for one, agree that it will be a stalemate. Never.

Ghost Rider's power is derived from a direction embedded in his fabric; a direction coming only when there is 'pure' evil around. If the victim or opponent has 'erred', then Rider almost (most of the times anyway) gets an immediate advantage. Lets not forget he has the power of hell itself that dwarfs most other known cosmic powers by route of one argument, the soul. Everything that has a soul is susceptible to Ghost Rider's 'vengeance' That said, Spawn is a notch below in that sense, if you ask me. While he packs raw power that seems almost limitless, and has a host of 'hell bred' powers, his attack or defense won't necessarily come as a form of vengeance. Hence, as seen in his various brawls with folks like Overtkill, or the Clown, he can be temporarily sidetracked, if not eventually beaten.

 

Darkseid's powers are well known, as are Thanos'. If they come to the fight with raw power, they instantly win as neither Spawn, nor Rider have the goods to even shield that kind of power, especially when combined. However, as explained above, the hook is that Rider primarily, and Spawn only uptona degree have that extra of extras called the hell fire factor. That factor will automatically stem any attack Seid or Thanos can throw at Rider, amping him upto ridiculous levels and opening portals upon portals of hell fire that will have a variety of effects. The core point for that to happen of course, is that Seid and Thanos should both be 'guilty'. To me, that is where Rider and Spawn will lose. I believe that Thanos and Seid are more like 'forces of nature' than they are 'bad'. They have their place in the realty cosmic, and are often at the cnetre of events that are required to bring along a balance to the scales, even if somewhat lopsided scales. In my opinion, when Rider will not get a 'tether' of guilt to hold onto, he will do the one logical thing he is known to do in that conflicted case; ride off. That will inadvertently leave Spawn, who has been known to retreat, being a smart military fuelled intelligence. The match thus, in my opinion, is by default, going to Seid and Thanos' and not in term sof raw power. Cheers.

[Guest force_echo]

Spawn after defeating Malebolgia can definitely stand to Thanos and Darkseid in power. At this point he's a high level reality warper, able to create his own universes. Thanos and 'Seid go down.

[Guest Ethan]

The doors to Darkseid's fortress open and the Rider enters eyes flaring.

Spawn's ally doesn't speak, he just marches, completely unafraid, towards the tyrant standing with his back to them at the far end of the immense hall, looking into a monitor that spans the length of the entire far wall.

Darkseid turns to see his new enemies. A smirk on his face.

 

...

 

I imagine that Darkseid's Omega Beams would leave Ghost Rider's atoms scattered. No, it doesn't "kill" the Rider but it does force him to find a new host as Johnny would be no more.

Spawn on the other hand has immense power and may be able to fend off Darkseid's Omega Beams. Against Darkseid and Thanos together, I imagine Spawn being surprised again and again by their ability to take whatever he dishes out until, given the time he may even destroy them burning out his own life force in the process... but I doubt it.

 

Darkseid and Thanos win.

[Guest force_echo]

Uh, no. Spawn could easily cause them to stop living, or lock them in a dimension. Or just punch them to death.

[baneblade]

Uh, no. Spawn could easily cause them to stop living, or lock them in a dimension. Or just punch them to death.

 

That is possible, on someone who can't do likewise. Dimensions, self made containment realities, and 'living' or non--life are Seid's backyard activities. The last time I checked, in terms of opponent levels, Seid's trumps Spawn's any time. I am not saying it will be a cakewalk, but I put firth two posisbilities:

1) If Sied' and Tahnos' souls are indeed 'guilt-ridden', then they lose, 1st courtesy of Ghost Rider, and then Spawn

2) If their souls are not as 'compromised' and they are other world 'anomalies' only doing right by their angle, then Rider's powers will be inaffectual, and Spawn, no matter that he slayed Malebolgia, will be severely shorthanded. From what I have seen across the various storylines, Spawn's expense of his powers usually comes at a cost, that has varied effects, some not as lasting. Plus, at the core, he is human (dead, but human). His 'thinking' and brain set can never match those of two of the wickedest and empowered beings in their respective universe'. Remember, I am only gauging this on a pure visual basis, whereby Seid has faced off something liek the Source, a being that easily trumps Malebolgia in terms of expanse of powers. Malebolgia is reliant on the reality God created around him, and immersed him in. The Source, though subject to the same treatment, is absolute ruler over his self created dominion, and that incluides the architectural ungenuity that spawned the New Gods. And Seid stood upto him, even got around some of the Source's 'purge' machinations. That is a feat still more credible than any of the others' on this particular match.

 

In a capsule (and logically) I will say that if Seid's and Thanos' souls can be brought to court of judgement, per deomons' and human terms, they lose. If not, (a scenario oft seen in comicdom), then Deid and Thanos trounce. Cheers bros.

[xLEGACYx]

Well the way I see it. Neither Darkseid or Thanos has a soul since neither can truly die. Thanos is truly immortal and Darkseid's body may die but his essence can not be killed, only transferred. Another factor is that neither one feels any guilt in what they do. Thanos only wants to be with Death but is unable to and Darkseid believes that if he ruled the universe would be a better place. No matter how harshly he treats his subjects on Apokolips they worship and praise him. Therefore he is doing good by them. Also between the raw power of Thanos and the Omega Powers of Darkseid they are too much for Rider or Spawn. Darkseid should be able to handle both. Since his Omega beams can go after two targets at once he can effectively hit Rider and Spawn at the same time. In so doing he could place them both in seperate realities where the have been seperated from their power. Then for fun, they could then boom tube there and Seid and Thanos could toy with the powerless Rider and Spawn

[Guest force_echo]

That is possible, on someone who can't do likewise. Dimensions, self made containment realities, and 'living' or non--life are Seid's backyard activities. The last time I checked, in terms of opponent levels, Seid's trumps Spawn's any time. I am not saying it will be a cakewalk, but I put firth two posisbilities:

1) If Sied' and Tahnos' souls are indeed 'guilt-ridden', then they lose, 1st courtesy of Ghost Rider, and then Spawn

2) If their souls are not as 'compromised' and they are other world 'anomalies' only doing right by their angle, then Rider's powers will be inaffectual, and Spawn, no matter that he slayed Malebolgia, will be severely shorthanded. From what I have seen across the various storylines, Spawn's expense of his powers usually comes at a cost, that has varied effects, some not as lasting. Plus, at the core, he is human (dead, but human). His 'thinking' and brain set can never match those of two of the wickedest and empowered beings in their respective universe'. Remember, I am only gauging this on a pure visual basis, whereby Seid has faced off something liek the Source, a being that easily trumps Malebolgia in terms of expanse of powers. Malebolgia is reliant on the reality God created around him, and immersed him in. The Source, though subject to the same treatment, is absolute ruler over his self created dominion, and that incluides the architectural ungenuity that spawned the New Gods. And Seid stood upto him, even got around some of the Source's 'purge' machinations. That is a feat still more credible than any of the others' on this particular match.

 

In a capsule (and logically) I will say that if Seid's and Thanos' souls can be brought to court of judgement, per deomons' and human terms, they lose. If not, (a scenario oft seen in comicdom), then Deid and Thanos trounce. Cheers bros.

No, no its not. First of all, the fact that he's dead has no effect on his mental capacity, why would Hell reduce his mental capability when he's the one leading their army? Second of all after killing Malebolgia, his powers don't have any capacity on their use, the counter is gone. Spawn beat a near omniscient demon second to the all-powerful Satan himself, by himself. While he was still a street level character. Keep in mind Malebolgia was almost infinitely more powerful than him. After that, he took down Satan himself and took control of Hell. Keep in mind that he did this from a street level perspective, he wasn't a god, he was facing people who could easily just revoke his powers. But through skill, through intellect, he defeated two of the most powerful entities in the Spawn Universe.

[baneblade]

No, no its not. First of all, the fact that he's dead has no effect on his mental capacity, why would Hell reduce his mental capability when he's the one leading their army? Second of all after killing Malebolgia, his powers don't have any capacity on their use, the counter is gone. Spawn beat a near omniscient demon second to the all-powerful Satan himself, by himself. While he was still a street level character. Keep in mind Malebolgia was almost infinitely more powerful than him. After that, he took down Satan himself and took control of Hell. Keep in mind that he did this from a street level perspective, he wasn't a god, he was facing people who could easily just revoke his powers. But through skill, through intellect, he defeated two of the most powerful entities in the Spawn Universe.

 

If I merely take Spawn's first true conquest, Malebolgia, and weigh what went down, it is not hard to see that he faced off Malebolgia when he was not truly at the height of his power. That aside, Spawn had aid from Angela, and only after Malebolgia's compromised state, (not made overtly elaborate in the story telling), did Spawn manage to kill him. Same goes for the other instances. Here and there, give and take, there were 'extras' that aided him. Again, you cite Malebolgia's reference, and I have stated that that demon is subject to another architect's laws, not made his own. In fact, that even goes for Satan. Something like the Source is the maker and architect of his own dimensions, universes and beings. (No to mention, beings powerful enough to trump hell's minions such as were under Malebolgia's reign at least). This is just one angle of consideration. The other is that Spawn was always dead. Yet there was no character in that state more tormented, or confused, or conflicted than him. You could yourself see the instances where he needed aid or rescue against Mammon. It is elementary that in all those instances, he was affected when attacked, or manipulated, or imprisoned , or challenged. Hence, that 'untouchable entity' is not the thing that accrues to him. He had help. or extras, or aid. He just didn't defy logic and get up and trounce those entities himself with the powers they gave him. I still say, Seid, or Thanos are sans these conflicts, handicaps and confusions. Spawn is, you say, a God. There are 2 right here he is going to face. Even the math is not in his favour.

[Guest xLEGACYx]

No, no its not. First of all, the fact that he's dead has no effect on his mental capacity, why would Hell reduce his mental capability when he's the one leading their army? Second of all after killing Malebolgia, his powers don't have any capacity on their use, the counter is gone. Spawn beat a near omniscient demon second to the all-powerful Satan himself, by himself. While he was still a street level character. Keep in mind Malebolgia was almost infinitely more powerful than him. After that, he took down Satan himself and took control of Hell. Keep in mind that he did this from a street level perspective, he wasn't a god, he was facing people who could easily just revoke his powers. But through skill, through intellect, he defeated two of the most powerful entities in the Spawn Universe.

Major PIS in Spawns favor then

[Callisto]

Match Final Results

USER RATINGS

C This fight was okay, but I think that it was a bit short. It was all just one big block of text, and I think it could have been expanded upon a lot. Work on description

SCORE

Ghost Rider (Blaze) and Spawn: 16

Darkseid and Thanos: 15

FPA: 2.0

 

[Guest Tyla7]

First of all, this confrontation was a simple but AWESOME idea! Now, it has been said by a few that none of these characters can truly die, which as far as i know has proven to be true. However, if every fight between characters in comic books, movies, etc. was ended by the loser being killed than all but a few characters wouldn't last beyond a couple issues. It is possible to defeat an opponent through incapacitation, "temporary" death, etc and all four of these guys are vulnerable to that. There is nothing to suggest that Darkseid and Thanos have no souls and they are not "forces of nature" in the sense that they are abstract beings simply obeying their nature (like Galactus). They both began as somewhat mortal beings who through quests for power gained "cosmic" power-levels and are every bit as evil in the traditional sense as a common street thug, albeit on an IMMENSE scale. Sadly, all of that was only to establish their vulnerabilities to the Penance Stare.

 

For who i think should lets look at what we are dealing with. First of all, in most instances comic book dynamic seem to favor magic over mundane, and Darkseid is the only one whose powers are not magical in nature (I believe Thanos' powers are partially mystical). So, despite being cool i think he's the weakest contestant, but only in this specific circumstance. However, Thanos and Darkseid are both schemers and beyond human intelligence (unlike the other fighters), which means they'll probably know their enemies abilities and will find some way to avoid the Penance Stare, which put them both out of commission. that being said Ghost Rider wont be made useless since the guy has taken on Mephisto and Blackheart who are both easily on Thanos' level. Plus, Spawn is the most skilled fighter here which has to count for something. They all have a wide variety of very useful powers, but i believe Spawn's sheer determination and fighting ability (plus his BADASS powers) combined with one of the Most powerful Marvel heroes cannot be defeated. Plus one for the good guys!

[Guest force_echo]

What are you talking about? He nearly killed Malebolgia the first time by transforming into his demon form. Malebolgia came back stronger than ever, at which point Spawn killed Malebolgia by himself. Yes, he did trounce those entities with his powers, how about you actually read the comic you're arguing? The only point where he received a significant outside power boost was from the Miracle Man. I don't know what the hell you're talking about with the rest of that, but Spawn easily has the raw power to simply erase the opposition from existence.

[Guest Tyla7]

What are you talking about? He nearly killed Malebolgia the first time by transforming into his demon form. Malebolgia came back stronger than ever, at which point Spawn killed Malebolgia by himself. Yes, he did trounce those entities with his powers, how about you actually read the comic you're arguing? The only point where he received a significant outside power boost was from the Miracle Man. I don't know what the hell you're talking about with the rest of that, but Spawn easily has the raw power to simply erase the opposition from existence.

 

Was that aimed at me? Cuz i didnt mention any of that

[baneblade]

What are you talking about? He nearly killed Malebolgia the first time by transforming into his demon form. Malebolgia came back stronger than ever, at which point Spawn killed Malebolgia by himself. Yes, he did trounce those entities with his powers, how about you actually read the comic you're arguing? The only point where he received a significant outside power boost was from the Miracle Man. I don't know what the hell you're talking about with the rest of that, but Spawn easily has the raw power to simply erase the opposition from existence.

 

 

Bro Force, I speak not out of conjecture but solid fact. Think about it, in past posts, you have oft dispersed power sets and feats when and where they were based on major PIS. If I only pick one point, that you made, and even 'LEGACY" pointed out, albiet more elaborately than I did. So, lets go ahead and see what you yourself (and quite accurately too) pointed out : They could have easily taken his power. Hence, logically, comically, categorically, it owuld not be just 'powers' that trumped Malebolgia and Satan, something else sprinkled in there. How did Spawn do it? Why not give us a step by step (but very brief) breakdown? You will see, that when you begin with it, you yourself will answer that question. In the least, you should have at least called it major PIS, but your tone seemes to advocate Spawn in that sense. See, I only know that if Galactus powers Surfer, then Surfer just can not beat him. No way in any universe is that possible, unless, circumstances, or 'endowments' change the landscape of battle. Agree? Lets hear it from your side bro, how Spawn trumped Malebolgia (I know about it but would like to see your statement and comic experience of it) and as I said, you will see what I mean as soon as you begin stating that particular event.

[Guest anu]

People used the arguments I thought they would..

[Guest force_echo]

Bro Force, I speak not out of conjecture but solid fact. Think about it, in past posts, you have oft dispersed power sets and feats when and where they were based on major PIS. If I only pick one point, that you made, and even 'LEGACY" pointed out, albiet more elaborately than I did. So, lets go ahead and see what you yourself (and quite accurately too) pointed out : They could have easily taken his power. Hence, logically, comically, categorically, it owuld not be just 'powers' that trumped Malebolgia and Satan, something else sprinkled in there. How did Spawn do it? Why not give us a step by step (but very brief) breakdown? You will see, that when you begin with it, you yourself will answer that question. In the least, you should have at least called it major PIS, but your tone seemes to advocate Spawn in that sense. See, I only know that if Galactus powers Surfer, then Surfer just can not beat him. No way in any universe is that possible, unless, circumstances, or 'endowments' change the landscape of battle. Agree? Lets hear it from your side bro, how Spawn trumped Malebolgia (I know about it but would like to see your statement and comic experience of it) and as I said, you will see what I mean as soon as you begin stating that particular event.

Hey, how about you give a detailed, step by step account of how Darkseid "beat" (as you claim) The Source, or how Thanos defeated any more powerful character?

[baneblade]

Hey, how about you give a detailed, step by step account of how Darkseid "beat" (as you claim) The Source, or how Thanos defeated any more powerful character?

 

Bro, a question as a response? OK. No prob. I never said Seid 'beat' the Source. I only said he faced him off, was the only New God standing alone to face him, and did so with brains, and his own credo. The Source was not depowered, or beat down when Seid faced him, raher the Source was at the height of his power.

 

Stats comparison will be funny when it comes to an opponent like the Source with that of Malebolgia. Given, 'Bolgia is powerful, but the Source is Absolute. 'Bolgia is given a domain, and is a subject among many. Image has stated this here and there. The Source is owner, fashioner, 'empowerer', and destroyer of his dominion, that of the New Gods' universe. The Source also 'source's' the 'Source Wall' (So many 'sources right there eh?), an object that emcompasses the powers and might of the Demi-Gods passed on and collected into it. Even a group of New Gods (Demi-Urge, Seid, Orion, High Father etc.) is not just a notch, but way above the known 'army' Malbolgia created. The Source 'sourced' whole worlds, and maintained them. Seid not only blindsided him, but faced him off. He didn't beat him (He logically just can't, which is why i am calling out the PIS factor)but fought him face to face, and that given period of time he survived or stood mano-a-mano proved that Seid is capable of things 'beyond' what we had been seeing in his underwritten tales. In a capsule, Seid faced off a much more complete, and powerful opponent, a feat that none of the Source's creation accomplished. To me, that singular feat is way more than any 'extra-endowed' hero can muster up.

Now, the following accrue directly in this fight:

1) Here, in this match, he is coupled with Thanos, a creature I consider less than Seid, but many consider more. I am not saying i am going with one opinion or another at this point: I am saying he is coupled with a titan who gave the entire Marvel U fits. If that tag team is not overwheling, I don't know which is.

2) I also argued that it is 'possible' that Seid and Thanos will be left alone by Rider, as they are very possibly, devoid of 'demonic or human soul attributes' and more like forces of nature on a certain collision course.

3) I also said, that if Seid and Thanos are comprising a human or demonic factor in terms of a soul, then they lose almost instantly.

However, I just don't see either Seid or Thanos subject to these laws on which the hell fire operates. Still, I left both posisbilities open, in the lement of fairness.

 

Now, since you didnot address the question: Spawn did not face Malebolgia (An opponent to me, much much lesser than the Source) till he was weakened. He also had aid, courtesy Angela, who struck one of the blows further weakening the demon. To me, that is not mano-a-mano. that is not one on one. That is 'extras'. Whether it be a concoction brewed by Spawn himself, or made on his advice, a power-up he devised and bolstered his abilities with, it was not Spawn's doing. These were extraneous factors that helped Spawn cross that PIS line and beat a creature that basically 'powered' him. Imagine, if Seid would have actually beat the Source, i would have called it major PIS of all time. The thing that 'spawned' you, powered you, killed by you, especially when it can take the powers instantly away from you? Think about it. I don't think even comics hit that rock bottom venue where they draw PIS within PIS. Simple reality is: Spawn had help, and the factor that Malebolgia was just not upto his good ol; self following a ravaging battle prior to Spawn an' Angie hitting him. These factors worked against him, and I fully accept them. I also call the feat still impressive, just not Seid impressive. As for any of the other powers you mention: alter reality, manipulate matter, traverse time, space continnum, traverse realms, create semi-realms, break others, some of these the two share. I would just give it to the much more experienced and less fallible and smarter one. That's all. Cheers.