Match 11499 Brainiac and General Zod vs. The Marvel Universe

[xLEGACYx]

Uh - Odinforce Thor is a reality warper. There's no reason to think he wouldn't just eliminate the invading forces from Existence. He's conquered Earth in Marvel with the Odinforce. Imagine that being used against the invasion force alongside the others complementing him...

yeah, odinforce thor is the deciding factor here. He wipes out the kryptonians but without him the Marvel U would end up losing.

[baneblade]

You guys just can't have a 'reality warper' warping a 'picked' element from existence. Thor’s 'conquest of earth' came not at a whim, but with due 'preparation' of immense proportion and background 'groundwork' not reflected in the tale itself. Along with that one instant cited (earth's conquest), Thor's particular tale was an 'out of continuity' experience. I am accepting it though, but with a lot of cans being opened in the process, as you will now see. Check out the scribe's comments on the tale (I believe this was Jurgens, coupled with a few others, doesn't matter – don’t know if I or anyone can even find those now) Also, you can not ‘pick at random whatever Thor you wish here. It is like picking Superman 1,000,000 and laying his attributes right next to Superman Red Son. Is it the current Odinforce Odinson, or the alternate timeline ‘Earth conquest Thor’? I for one, will try to lay out the points for both versions.

 

In this match, these factors will have to be kept in mind, always: In every reality, whether 'other worldly' or current, Thor and Mjolnir are 'inseparable', and compliment one another in terms of power and channeling of energies.

 

The hook is (in the earth conquest, lame tale):

1) Thor was 'noble' in his intent of protecting and 're-creating earth'.

2) Earth's people were 'deserving' of a 'reformation' and its heroes and villains a 'nuisance' rather than an aid in earth's situation. Due to these 2 primary factors, Mjolnir (forged only for 'noble purposes and intents) was an aid to Thor's every channeling of energies and mystical 'applications'.

3) The self doubt (due to PISsy writing led Thor to relinquish his 'conquest') Even in that instant, Mjolnir corresponded prefectly because whatever Thor was doing was 'warranted' and he was 'worthy' of it.

4) Mjolnir in this case, if I recall the writing team's breakdown, or Thor lets say, worked against the human conscience, or for it. That's the way it always is.

 

In the regular, mainstream Marvel occurrences, even with a different Thor setting, the rules are still the same:

1) A warranted use of Mjolnir in extreme or normal circumstances. Ex: Killing Bor, made possible because there was no other way to avert disaster upon innocents, courtesy Straczynsky.

2) Mjolnir is somehow tethered to his essence now. Hence, things are a bit more difficult, since out of any possibility, Mjolnir breaking, breaks, or dents Thor

3) The current 'Odinforce' Thor is not what the previous 'lemme just conquer earth' Thor was. All feats came via Mjolnir, and Mjolnir validates his actions

4) If Odin, original weilder of the ‘odinforce’ could be touched, inspite of harbouring it, and even dented, I will bet the same will happen to Thor, particularly if these are opponents he’s never ‘timed’ himself against before.

The expected attack this time around is not from his usual demonic entities with complexes, or frost bars, but completely trained, powerful unit of kryptonians, led by a supreme tactician in Zod. Even with the heroes line up he has in tow, the sheer number will be a complex and fargone thing to just erase. Now, you could always say, so, what if Mjolnir ‘agrees’ to it, and sees complete justification in Thor’s actions? Well, then that is a what-if? It is a non-factor, till you make it a factor. My opinion is that in this current timeline, and especially when he couldn’t pull off the feat in the way you guys are reflecting it, inspite of heavy odds; in that, we are in a pickle, to say the least.

 

The new world as said above. is more conflicted than it has ever been. It simply means that absolute ‘erasing of kryptonians’ sounds like a far far shot. I say it will come down to battle. In a battle, more realistically, Thor won’t just wave Mjolnir and erase noble and corrupt kryptonians alike. It is much more complicated than that.

 

These factors will also come into play:

1. Like on a familiar world they conquered, this ‘unwarned’ planet will have the disadvantage of Braniac infiltrating it was well, drafting his technologies around the most prominent ‘tech savvy’ heavy hitters who wont have a prayer against him assimilating their tech as his own, along with subsequent sabotage of earth tech at an alarmingly fast and expansive rate
   
2. Earth’s heavy hitters at best, realistically, in comic terms are in disarray here. The kryptonians with one huge conquest of a ‘larger’ planet are more experienced as a unit. More than half the lineup on the Marvel side are much slower than them, and won’t be able to block out their voices when strategy is discussed, whereby through direct super hearing or through Braniac channeling his resources to the ears of the kryptonians, most strategic positions will be given away even while the kryptonians fly into battle.
   
3. The kryptonians have Kara on their side, which also means that they have other ‘krytponian’ resources, having conquered their previous homeworld, meaning they will have access to little toys like the phantom zone
   
4. They will scope out their attack, the Marvel line up will not. (Realistically speaking). If bro Baller says they are ready for the kryptonians, even then, this fleet of 100,00 strong, with abilities matching Superman, and only lacking in expeirence here and there is just too big a figure to surpass.
   

 

Unless our bro Baller adds some ‘facts n’ figures’ that I was not aware of, this fight by large or by margin, still belongs to the Kryptonians.

[Guest Tyla7]

Well even if we take all of that into account Odinforce Thor still has massive firepower and so maybe he can't just erase the Kryptonians but he can still do HUGE amounts of damage to them, plus considering his wisdom (Knowledge of Runes, etc.) and tactical skills he'll probably find Zod and incinerate him with a full power energy blast leaving the Kryptonian army without leadership and without organization they'll be much easier to defeat.

[xLEGACYx]

Well even if we take all of that into account Odinforce Thor still has massive firepower and so maybe he can't just erase the Kryptonians but he can still do HUGE amounts of damage to them, plus considering his wisdom (Knowledge of Runes, etc.) and tactical skills he'll probably find Zod and incinerate him with a full power energy blast leaving the Kryptonian army without leadership and without organization they'll be much easier to defeat.

while the first part may be true, killing Zod might make things worse. The kryptonians have a lot of love and respect for him. They chose him over Kal-El to lead. Killing him might infuriate them and that would make things much worse.

[Guest Tyla7]

Not necessarily, in a one-on-one fight rage may give some advantages (especially for someone like the Hulk) this is a battle between two armies. Ask any military expert, past or present, an infuriated and therefore unruly army is inferior to an organized, disciplined one. So, the Kryptonians anger could very easily work against them.

[baneblade]

Not necessarily, in a one-on-one fight rage may give some advantages (especially for someone like the Hulk) this is a battle between two armies. Ask any military expert, past or present, an infuriated and therefore unruly army is inferior to an organized, disciplined one. So, the Kryptonians anger could very easily work against them.

 

The on thing that will happen (in comic 'reality' terms) is that Zod is the last on the battle field. He will merely throw Braniac and a couple hundre Kryptonians at the line up first while letting Kara Zor El do the 'fill in' for him. That is, to address your one point. Realistically also, it would be a case of Braniac's thousands of probes simply crash landing on the lineup, along with a while lot of kryptonians. Also, realistically, many of the lineup simply can't stand and use their power without decimating their peers, making them in the lineup useful upton an extent. While the kryptonian line up has no 'complexitie' of this sort, again, you guys are looking at 100,000! That number, even if halved would have been a threat, but it is near insurmountable now. (I used 'near' as there is a possibility of the kryptonians' losing one one ground, that I neglected to mention in my previous posts). If Bro BallerJu comes back and adds some facts, ex' is the kryptonian lineup truly evil, and has no 'indirect' noble directives even, such as half the fleet that I assume (realistically) are noble, then the Odinforce will work its charm to the max. Without it, it is a decimating force (to clarify bro Legacy's point) that will do damage, but again, 100,000!!!!!. (Kryptonians). You need intellect to battle that, which I just do not see in the lineup right there. That intelligent foe is not among the lineup, and it wuld either be Superman, Batman or Luthor, who have had a lifetime of studying kryptonians. The current situation is so bad, it is not even funny.

[xLEGACYx]

Not necessarily, in a one-on-one fight rage may give some advantages (especially for someone like the Hulk) this is a battle between two armies. Ask any military expert, past or present, an infuriated and therefore unruly army is inferior to an organized, disciplined one. So, the Kryptonians anger could very easily work against them.

There would still be order to the kryptonians though Zod is the General but there are many other leaders in the sub structure just like any other army. So another person would become leader, more than likely Alura and she was just as ruthless when it came to protecting the kryptonians. Also you still have Brainiac in the mix to help lead. Basically you will be dealing with 99,999 pissed off Supermen with varying degrees of smartness from engineering, science, spritual, and military.

[baneblade]

The on thing that will happen (in comic 'reality' terms) is that Zod is the last on the battle field. He will merely throw Braniac and a couple hundre Kryptonians at the line up first while letting Kara Zor El do the 'fill in' for him. That is, to address your one point. Realistically also, it would be a case of Braniac's thousands of probes simply crash landing on the lineup, along with a while lot of kryptonians. Also, realistically, many of the lineup simply can't stand and use their power without decimating their peers, making them in the lineup useful upton an extent. While the kryptonian line up has no 'complexitie' of this sort, again, you guys are looking at 100,000! That number, even if halved would have been a threat, but it is near insurmountable now. (I used 'near' as there is a possibility of the kryptonians' losing one one ground, that I neglected to mention in my previous posts). If Bro BallerJu comes back and adds some facts, ex' is the kryptonian lineup truly evil, and has no 'indirect' noble directives even, such as half the fleet that I assume (realistically) are noble, then the Odinforce will work its charm to the max. Without it, it is a decimating force (to clarify bro Legacy's point) that will do damage, but again, 100,000!!!!!. (Kryptonians). You need intellect to battle that, which I just do not see in the lineup right there. That intelligent foe is not among the lineup, and it wuld either be Superman, Batman or Luthor, who have had a lifetime of studying kryptonians. The current situation is so bad, it is not even funny.

 

Oops, hit the post button in error. One more thing, Realistically, again, Zod will never have them fire off in one place. He will devide and conquer. Remember, the Marvel lineup is smart also, and will probably position themselves at least to stave off an initial attack in various locales. That also means their power will be broken up, and numbers severly overrun. I just can't see this in the Marvel lineup' sfavour, strategically, in terms of timeframe, and n terms of (especially) numbers.

[xLEGACYx]

I would just like to point out that giving the marvel side 300 people including all of Utopia, all of Logan's school, the Inhumans, and all heroes listed its still 333 vs 1 in Kryptonians favor (not including Brainiac drones)

 

Its 333 vs 1 if everyone is devided evenly. People like Iron Fist, Luke Cage, etc. would have there hands full with just one kryptonian really. So that would leave many of the heavy hitters, such as Hyperion, Nova Prime, Sentry, and Hulk fighting rough 600 kryptonians apiece if not more. The odds are just overwhelming.

[Guest Tyla7]

Im man enough to admit when i've been beaten. I concede..............for now

[Guest Delta Force]

Marvel's front line Odinforce Thor, Sentry, World War Hulk, Black Bolt, Gladiator, Skaar, Red Hulk, Nova Prime, Wonder Man, and Ghost Rider. Will have enough power to survive the fight. But what about everyone else. With out the brain power of Reed Richards, Doom, T'Challa they can even defend them selves. Unless they get mystical power ups which will take Asgard and Olympus.

[Guest bigballerju]

You guys are forgetting Sentry and Quasar. Remember Sentry with a stable mind is up there or close to Odinforce Thor. Hell if Sentry with a unstable mind could destroy Asgard and god knows how many Asgardians along with ripping 2 Gods with ease. Just think what a stable mind Sentry would do with full power. Which we have seen stable mind Sentry is even above Silver Surfer in power. Plus you add in Quasar and others you have people close to power or right under Odinforce Thor.

 

Marvel has enough of a powerful force that they could hold off the Kryptonians while the big brains come up with a way to wipe out the Kryptonians or depower them. Hell remember Reed always seems to have access to the Negative Zone on him. Also you guys are forgetting the telepaths Marvel has, magic users, energy manipulaters, and more.

 

Just keep in mind Marvel has other options folks. I know 100,000 Kryptonians seems like a slaughter but Marvel can also get the victory too here if you really think about it.

[Guest Delta Force]

Big brains are not listed and Karnak, Henry Pym, and Iron Man are the only one that is more valuable out of combat.

[kainboa]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Kryptonians, keep getting stronger the longer the fighting goes on, rather than weaker.

 

Hell, Zod and Braniac are smart enough to send a selected squad of Kryptonians on a quick sundip, increaseing their power and usefulness in the battle, then they replace some of the units already engaged in combat, who then go take a sundip, rince and repeat until every kryptonian have been sundipped.

[xLEGACYx]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Kryptonians, keep getting stronger the longer the fighting goes on, rather than weaker.

 

Hell, Zod and Braniac are smart enough to send a selected squad of Kryptonians on a quick sundip, increaseing their power and usefulness in the battle, then they replace some of the units already engaged in combat, who then go take a sundip, rince and repeat until every kryptonian have been sundipped.

quite resourceful. I didnt think of this alternative.

 

Also keep in mind that Brainiac drones will be in the mix and will be studying all intel gathered by the fights. Each wave of drones would be stronger than the next.

[Guest bigballerju]

Look at the list again you will see the Fantastic Four, Ironman, Utopia, and the Inhumans who all have big brains. Did you just say out of all of Marvel's list the only ones valuable for combat are Ironman and Karnak?

 

Edit: I said it was just Brainac in the fight with the Kryptionans. No clones or anything.

[xLEGACYx]

Look at the list again you will see the Fantastic Four, Ironman, Utopia, and the Inhumans who all have big brains. Did you just say out of all of Marvel's list the only ones valuable for combat are Ironman and Karnak?

 

Edit: I said it was just Brainac in the fight with the Kryptionans. No clones or anything.

Well most recent renditions of Brainiac he is part of his ship. So they are one. Either way though with Brainiac in the fight he can observe with other kryptonian scientist and rival anything created by the marvel team. One thing you have to look at is Reed's understanding of the universe is limited compared to Brainiac. Brainiac should be able to counter anything the Marvel eggheads come up with. Not to mention the aid of the kryptonian scientists.

 

On another note Zod will have made preparations for a battle and no where to strike first, hard and fast to prevent them from using those big brains. With the numbers he could hit them all at once without warning.

[Guest bigballerju]

No Brainac cannot counter anything Reed can. Reed's the guy who outsmarts and defeats foes like Galactus. By the way Brainac doesn't know anything about the Marvel Universe since he isn't from it.

 

Just want to play devil's advocate here.

[C.T.]

Nova Prime also has a super AI plugged in with him, that should counter Brainiac. Let's go worldmind.

[Guest Delta Force]

Look at the list again you will see the Fantastic Four, Ironman, Utopia, and the Inhumans who all have big brains. Did you just say out of all of Marvel's list the only ones valuable for combat are Ironman and Karnak?

 

Avengers:

 

Sentry( Stable Mind with all his powers but reality warping)

World War Hulk

Gladiator 100% confident (He is fighting cause his son is on Earth)

Odinforce Thor

Skaar

Red Hulk

Ironman (Current armor)

War Machine

Luke Cage

Iron Fist

Dr. Strange

Red Shehulk

Sue Storm

Thing

Nova Prime

Hyperion (King Hyperion or whatever is his most powerful version of him)

Power Princess

Quicksilver

Namor

Hercules

Captain Britain

Shehulk

Wonder Man

Ms.Marvel

Valkerie

Johnny Storm

Ghost Rider ( Johnny Blaze not the current one who is a girl)

 

X-Men:

 

Utopia (Everyone on Utopia led by Cyclops)

 

Wolverine's X-Men ( All his X-Men he took with him to from his own school)

 

Others:

 

Black Bolt and the Inhumans

Young Avengers

Avengers Academy

Quasar

 

Is he hiding?

[Guest bigballerju]

LOL you were right. I edited it to add in Reed Richards and Hank Pym.

[Guest Delta Force]

Hank Pym is with Avengers Academy. Also I said out of combat as in best and the brightest.. Because every one else is need on their respective teams. Like Hank McCoy on X-Men. But since you added Reed. Marvel kicks @$$.

[Guest bigballerju]

Don't forget the X-Men has a big brain too in Dr.Nemesis or whatever he is called on Utopia. Thats rights I did add in Hank Pym since he is part of Avengers Academy. I was only thinking of the teenage superheroes they train there not the adults.

[DSkillz]

Good set-up, baller. As good as this was, though, the debating is even better.

 

Not gonna jump into the debate, but I'm thinking the Krytonians' massive numbers and speed and Brainiac's intel on Marvel Earth may be a bit much for the Marvel heroes to overcome.

[Guest Redemption X]

Here's the thing:

 

Ghost Rider uses the Penance Stare on Supergirl.

 

The power of the Penance Stare makes Supergirl realize that what she's doing is wrong, that she shouldn't be doing this and that she's a heroine.

 

At which point, Supergirl quickly switches sides.

 

Wiith Supergirl providing detailed info on Brainiac and the Kryptonians (not to menton her own formidable powers), the Marvel heroes take this.