Achilles (Troy) vs Scar (AVP)

[Guest skadoosh]

Achilles, from the film Troy

 

vs

 

Scar, from the film Alien vs Predator

 

 

They are fighting to the death in the ruins of an ancient city. They start twenty feet apart, facing each other. Neither knows anything about the other prior to the fight. Achilles has his armour, shield, spear and sword, and Scar has his body-armour, knife and wrist blades.

 

 

Opinions?

[RakaiThwei]

I never saw the film Troy...

 

I did see Alien vs Predator.

 

And considering that Scar is a Unblooded - Young Blood, more than likely he would be armed with the following type of weapons.

 

Armor

 

Low Grade Dlex Armor

 

Weapons

 

Low Grade Dlex Wristblades

Ceremonial Dagger.

 

Am I correct in assuming this considering that since Scar was an extremely low ranking warrior, this would be the type of armor and weapons which he would be equipped with, right?

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest skadoosh]

Yes, as seen in the film itself. Scar doesn't have his bio-mask in this fight, though, just the armour on his torso and whatnot.

 

I can see if i can find some of the fight scenes from Troy online for you, to demonstrate Achilles' capability.

[RakaiThwei]

Yes, as seen in the film itself. Scar doesn't have his bio-mask in this fight, though, just the armour on his torso and whatnot.

 

That's fine. However, I do wish you would've given Scar his combi-staff to match Achillie's spear.

 

I can see if i can find some of the fight scenes from Troy online for you, to demonstrate Achilles' capability.

 

I can Youtube it...

 

However I can say that regardless of what version of Achillies is being used here, he definitely has battle experience and skill over Scar Predator. Scar is definitely physically superior to Achillies considering that Yautja in general are just physically superior to even the most well conditioned of human beings, so he has strength, speed and endurance to compensate for his lack of experience in this fight-- and to add that to it, an incredibly high pain threshold as most, if not all Yautja have that common trait with each other.

 

This is an interesting fight but.... chances are there is a favor for Achillies going on here and it's three things-- his skill and experience, as well as his unnatural blessing which allows him to be the warrior he is known to be.

 

But Scar has the better conditioning, and better armor and weapons to hold up.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Scar's weapons can pierce Achilles' armor, but not the other way around.

[Guest skadoosh]

I thought about giving Scar his combi-staff to match Achilles' spear but i didn't think it was fair on Achilles, seeing as this version is just a very skilled human and not a nigh-invulnerable one.

 

Good points about both combatants, dude, those are exactly why i figured this was a decent match up. Youtube some fight scenes from Troy involving Achilles and then let me know what you think.

 

Scar's weapons can pierce Achilles' armor, but not the other way around.

 

Yes, but Scar has less armour on, less weapons to use, and the ones he does have aren't as long-ranged as Achilles'.

 

Plus, Achilles is arguably better at striking an opponent wearing armour.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

I still see Scar winning.

[Guest skadoosh]

How come?

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Highly skilled, above human physical stats, and better weapons/armor.

[RakaiThwei]

Good points about both combatants, dude, those are exactly why i figured this was a decent match up. Youtube some fight scenes from Troy involving Achilles and then let me know what you think.

 

I just finished watching Achillies vs Hector, but there are two other videos that I need to finish watching. But it's without a shadow of a doubt, technical skill and experience do go to Achillies hands down... however, Achillies was trained to fight men-- where as Scar was trained to hunt Xenomorphs and Humans, as well as a plethora of other creatures that exist within the Aliens vs Predator universe. And he was shown to have some techinical skill as well.

 

Plus, Achilles is arguably better at striking an opponent wearing armour.

 

 

Looking at Scar Predator's armor from a Concept Art which was finalized for the film, subtracting the mask as a factor in this fight-- Achillies does not have a lot to piece a sword through. Or even so much as hack and slash at for that matter save for the arms where the armor doesn't protect him. And this is low grade Dlex armor which Scar was wearing in Alien vs Predator.

 

Considering that Ancient Greek armor was made from bronze, and this included the weapons and the shield-- compared to Dlex, it's not as strong. I can see Scar piercing through the shield with his wristblades, and even through the armor as well considering that he can generate enough force to drive his blades through the shield and the armor. And maybe the sword as well if he takes a strong enough swing, which he can most definitely do.

 

Still... I'll let you know who wins after the last two videos of the film version of Achillies.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest skadoosh]

Highly skilled, above human physical stats, and better weapons/armor.

 

Scar is not as skilled as Achilles, in some ways, and has fewer, as well as shorter, weapons. He is physically superior, but only by just enough to make a difference. And Achilles is definitely accurate enough to strike him despite his armour.

 

snip

 

Good points, dude. Watch a few more vids, though. Achilles pulls off some seriously impressive stuff. And see above for a point about Scar's armour.

[xLEGACYx]

Achilles knows his stuff when it comes to battle. His aim with the spear from a distance is great along with the force behind his throw. When it comes to sword play, Achilles' weapons would hold up because he is skilled enough to recognize the difference in metals and deflecting blows would be more productive then stopping them with his sword or shield. So he could cause Scars attacks to glance off his sword and shield and avoid a direct hit to them. He seems to do this a lot in the movie anyways so that he has a more fluid sword play.

[RakaiThwei]

Scar is not as skilled as Achilles, in some ways, and has fewer, as well as shorter, weapons. He is physically superior, but only by just enough to make a difference. And Achilles is definitely accurate enough to strike him despite his armour.

 

I have seen three videos of Achillies in battle in the film Troy. I have to say that this version of Achillies, is infact quite impressive as far as technical skill and experience goes but we also need to take into account that he is not fighting a man but a Yautja-- something which this version of Achillies has fought nothing akin to such a creature and there was the fight with Boagirus which... was not impressive considering that he was just fighting a muscle bound man who was wearing little to no armor, and the guy just threw his arms up and shouted, allowing Achillies to easily off him for his moment of arrogance.

 

Scar, while an Unblooded during the events of Alien vs Predator, was not so much as arrogant a Hunter. He was skilled, and he was trained but he was nothing like his clan mate Celtic-- who was hesistant and arrogant. Scar actually was a Hunter who relied on his senses and was mostly aware of his surroundings, namely with the scene where he had sliced a Xenomorph's head with a shuriken shortly after he was initially attempted to be attacked by a Facehugger. But he lacked the experience....

 

From how I see it.... This is going to be excruciatingly close. Hell, a part of me does want to say Achillies but a part of me also wants to say Scar.

 

As mentioned, Achillies does have the experience and he does have the technical skill to win this. However whether or not he has that unnatural blessing (assuming from your statement above, he wasn't this nigh-invincible warrior and probably didn't have that blessing). If he doesn't have that blessing, then there is a chance for Scar to win this fight.

 

We've got a case of Technical Skill and Experience vs Physical Superiority and Superior Weaponry.

 

Plus, Achilles is arguably better at striking an opponent wearing armour.

 

Against Trojan Soldiers.

 

However the Yautja are a different story altogether. You have only said that Scar was wearing his armor, and not his mask and by this I am assuming that the armor he has on is the image posted above without any further subtractions from the armor. Looking at Yautja armor, this means that Scar's only vulnerable and most vital spot is his head-- and Achillies is pretty accurate with a spear, but in Alien vs Predator, Scar was dodging bullets from Weyland's Security Staff that went with the expedition team. So I can see Scar dodging the spear without too much trouble, and Achillies might end up throwing away his best long range weapon. Of course, he could play keep away with the spear but Scar could use his wristblades to either trap the spear by the pole arm and break it-- or trap it and toss it away. The wristblades are a pretty good offensive weapon and a good defensive weapon in the hands of a capable Hunter.

 

Achillies has his shield, which gives him a solid edge as far as defense goes but if he tries to use it as a way to beat Scar away with it-- well, it's not going to work took effectively. Yautja are pretty resistant against blunt force trauma and Scar can pierce his wristblades through the shield. There have been cases of Dlex cutting through steel quite easily, and bronze age shields are no exception to this. If Scar gets in a good strike, he can perhaps pierce through the shield and forearm of Achillies. As mentioned, Dlex can piece through Achillie's bronze age armor and shield-- but Bronze Age weaponry more than likely would not be able to pierce through Scar's armor.

 

Now it comes to blades vs blades... This is where shit gets really tricky here. I mean exceptionally tricky because we've got Achillie's Skill and Experience vs Scar's Physical Superiority and Superior Weapons. Achillie's sword going up against the wristblades-- an offensive weapon going up against a weapon which can be used offensively, or used to catch and trap other bladed weapons. This is where it gets really, really tricky. Naturally, Achillie's physical punches and kicks aren't going to phase Scar, but Scar's are going to seriously hurt Achillies. Achillie's best bet is to use his skill and experience, but Scar's armor is what has him pretty protected. There is also a height difference between the two, and knowing Scar's height-- he's 7'1 - 7'4 in height. So there is a reach advantage for Scar.

 

In the end, I see this fight coming out extremely close.

 

Achillies will seriously bludgeon Scar and Scar will more than likely do the same-- Achillies will be landing more slashes and hits on Scar, where as Scar will be landing harder and more devistating blows but not as much as Achillies had landed on him. In terms of blades, I can see Achillies landing some serious lacerations where Scar's armor doesn't protect him, and possibly even stabbing him in the side-- but as we know, it takes more than a single stab for a Yautja to be done in. Scar in return can either stab Achillies through his head with his wristblades or even stab for his sword arm and weaken him. Both are going to be seriously messed up, both are going to be bloody and both are going to be in a lot of pain...HOWEVER...

 

Achillies is Human.

 

Scar is a Yautja.

 

The Yautja have a much higher pain threshold then human beings go. So now it comes down to attrition and will power now, and what their limitations are. And since Achillies more than likely has sustained wounds which are fatal to a human, he's going to burn out eventually, where as Scar has marginally superior physicality and conditioning to go on. Achillies will try to stand and deliver a final blow to Scar-- however this is where Scar's technological advantage comes in. The wristblades can be fired like pistons-- Scar did this in Alien vs Predator.

 

Achillies will not be expecting that. By the time he prepares a final blow-- the wristblades will pierce through his armor and chest. Effectively killing him.

 

Scar wins, but is incapacitated and has numerous scars to tell the tale of a hard earned victory if he survives being exposed to the elements and the blood loss afterwards.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[xLEGACYx]

I have seen three videos of Achillies in battle in the film Troy. I have to say that this version of Achillies, is infact quite impressive as far as technical skill and experience goes but we also need to take into account that he is not fighting a man but a Yautja-- something which this version of Achillies has fought nothing akin to such a creature and there was the fight with Boagirus which... was not impressive considering that he was just fighting a muscle bound man who was wearing little to no armor, and the guy just threw his arms up and shouted, allowing Achillies to easily off him for his moment of arrogance.

 

The most impressive part of this is not that he defeated him but how. With one leaping strike he instantly killed the man by stabbing his lungs, heart, diaphragm, and kidneys in one strike.

[RakaiThwei]

The most impressive part of this is not that he defeated him but how. With one leaping strike he instantly killed the man by stabbing his lungs, heart, diaphragm, and kidneys in one strike.

 

Scar's armor protects the shoulder area from such strikes. Boagirus was not wearing any armor, Scar is wearing armor that protects him from such strikes. Boagirus lack of armor is what got him killed.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[xLEGACYx]

Scar's armor protects the shoulder area from such strikes. Boagirus was not wearing any armor, Scar is wearing armor that protects him from such strikes.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

I understand he is wearing armor but that scene demonstrates the precision of his strikes. While Predators physiology may be different from humans. Achilles struck once with his sword and took out 4 to 5 organs.

 

Now Im not declaring one character to beat the other but Achilles does have the skill and precision to work past the preds armor

[RakaiThwei]

I understand he is wearing armor but that scene demonstrates the precision of his strikes. While Predators physiology may be different from humans. Achilles struck once with his sword and took out 4 to 5 organs.

 

Now Im not declaring one character to beat the other but Achilles does have the skill and precision to work past the preds armor

 

Look at the armor... Better yet let me repost it since I now have to explain something here...

 

 

Take a good look at the shoulder and neck areas-- they are thorougly well protected by Dlex plating there. Now looking at the neck and shoulder areas, the Dlex plating extends to all the way from the shoulders to the area where the neck is. And the neck appears to have some sort of protection there as well, perhaps some kind of leather protection or some kind of padding there to keep the neck protection.

 

Now looking at that particular area in where Boagrius was stabbed in, it was the shoulder area at a specific angle in particular-- and again this was against an unarmored adversary who was essentially exposed to all forms of attack-- and someone who might be in the 5 - 6 height range. Scar would be somewhere in the 7 foot range. Achillies is not going to be able to do that same trick on Boagrius onto Scar-- namely because of Scar's height and the fact that he's got good enough protection to keep Achillies from stabbing him in those particular areas.

 

Now I can see Achillies slashing and stabbing at the legs and unprotected areas of the arms, and of course the exposed sides as well but is that enough to do Scar in? Considering the physiology of the Yautja, which is unknown, and their threshold for punishment-- those areas are not enough. His best bet would to be a head shot, but that would require him to get in close and personal. But for a human to fight a Yautja up close and personal? It's not going to be pretty.

 

I've already made mention of a headshot from Achillies' spear being evaded by Scar, but for him to try it with his his sword upclose and personal... Achillies knows better than to throw his last weapon away. He's going to want to hold onto it. And getting up close and personal with a Yautja, especially for a human, usually doesn't work out.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Scar is not as skilled as Achilles, in some ways, and has fewer, as well as shorter, weapons. He is physically superior, but only by just enough to make a difference. And Achilles is definitely accurate enough to strike him despite his armour.

Never said he was more skilled, but Scar is highly skilled that it doesn't really matter. Achilles has longer reach, but one swipe of the wrist blades and that spear is done.

[xLEGACYx]

 

Now looking at that particular area in where Boagrius was stabbed in, it was the shoulder area at a specific angle in particular-- and again this was against an unarmored adversary who was essentially exposed to all forms of attack-- and someone who might be in the 5 - 6 height range. Scar would be somewhere in the 7 foot range. Achillies is not going to be able to do that same trick on Boagrius onto Scar-- namely because of Scar's height and the fact that he's got good enough protection to keep Achillies from stabbing him in those particular areas.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

To be more clear the actor Nathan Jones (Boagrius) is close if not 7ft tall. The point I was trying to make is about precision. I wasnt saying Achilles could kill Scar with that strike itself.

 

What I was getting at is that is Scar raises and arm Achilles could quite possibly stab through the unprotected armpit into the heart. He could land a killing strike up under the chin of Scar directly into the brain. He could stab underneath the breastplate lodging the the sword in any vital organs in the chest cavity. He could slice through in major arteries or tendons in the legs or arms causing Scar to begin to bleed out, thus affecting him to the degree of slowing him and making Scar an easier target.

 

My point is Achilles is skilled enough to work around the armor with his sword, spear, or shield.

 

Another point is he could use the shield to attack the joints weakening Scars arms and legs.

[RakaiThwei]

To be more clear the actor Nathan Jones (Boagrius) is close if not 7ft tall.

 

The height of the actors usually doesn't reflect the height of the characters in most works of fiction. Kevin Peter Hall was 7'2 in both Predator and Predator 2, however his height possibly might not be reflective of the characters he plays. For all we know, Diablo and Ghost Predator could've been 8 feet. Ian Whyte, the actor who played the Predators in Alien vs Predator and Alien vs Predator Requiem was 7'1 but the Predators he played were listed as 7'4 according to concept art. Derek Mears, Carey Jones and Brian Steel are 6'1 - 6'4 but they were made out to appear to look like they were 9 to 10 feet tall, since the Black Super Predators were supposed to be taller than the Yautja species.

 

 

What I was getting at is that is Scar raises and arm Achilles could quite possibly stab through the unprotected armpit into the heart. He could land a killing strike up under the chin of Scar directly into the brain. He could stab underneath the breastplate lodging the the sword in any vital organs in the chest cavity. He could slice through in major arteries or tendons in the legs or arms causing Scar to begin to bleed out, thus affecting him to the degree of slowing him and making Scar an easier target.

 

Do you know the physiology and antatomical details of the Yautja? Because I sure as heck don't and so far there has been no official chart or even anatomical study of the Yautja released by Twentieth Century Fox or even Dark Horse Comics. However, we do know for a fact that the anatomical differences between a Yautja and a Human are vastly different-- we share very few similarities-- two eyes, a mouth, two arms, two legs, five fingers on each hand and possibly toes as well but that's where the similarities end. Regarding the point about the tendons, no one really knows where the tendons for a Yautja are, and Achillies without a shadow of a doubt doesn't even know where they are. No way he knows about the anatomy of a Yautja.

 

And you made mention of Achillies stabbing Scar underneath the armpit-- that's funny, an Alien actually did that in Alien vs Predator, and he didn't seem to be slowed down at all-- he was moving that arm without any pain or discomfort after sustaining that wound. Stabbing under the breast plate? Do I need to point out to you that Scar is wearing abdomen armor underneath his chest armor, he's wearing a long plate that extends to his abdomen underneath his chest plate. So stabbing under the chest armor isn't really going to work like you're suggesting. And even if he did-- a stab to the chest like that won't do Scar in so easily. And if you suggest the back area-- Scar has a similar plate extending underneath the back plate to protect his spine.

 

Yeah, the stabbing undereath the chin and to the brain could work and will do any Yautja in. But Scar isn't going to be that foolish to let that happen. For an Unblooded to Young Blooded warrior-- he was pretty skilled. He had technical skill, not as refined as Achillies but high enough to compete with the man. Scar's going to do his best to evade, block or even disarm Achillies if he tries something like that.

 

My point is Achilles is skilled enough to work around the armor with his sword, spear, or shield.

 

And my point is, aside from a few spots-- there ain't a lot to strike.

 

He could slice through in major arteries or tendons in the legs or arms causing Scar to begin to bleed out, thus affecting him to the degree of slowing him and making Scar an easier target.

 

You're making comparisons to the Human Anatomy to the Yautja Anatomy. In PREDATOR: South China Sea, someone had tried to cut a Yautja's heel at the ankle with a knife, and that didn't even cause the Yautja pain or even so much as slow him down. We do not know the exact anatomical structure of the Yautja, but we do know that their anatomy is vastly different from the human body. What applies to us, doesn't and should not apply to them in most circumstances.

 

Numerous Yautja have had their arms hacked off, but they kept on fighting-- case in point Predator 2, when Harrigan had hacked off Ghost's left arm and the Predator in question was still fighting, and winning for the most part until he got cocky and left himself wide open for Harrigan to exploit.

 

Another point is he could use the shield to attack the joints weakening Scars arms and legs.

 

The Yautja are highly resistant against blunt force trauma and in some cases, concussive blasts. There has even been a case of a Yautja taking a civil war era cannon blast. I don't see how a shield will do much good against a heavily armored Yautja. The Yautja down below was wearing Standard Issue Medium Grade Dlex armor. And that style of armor leaves a lot more exposed.

 

 

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[xLEGACYx]

you say all that in an overreacted response. I never said that I knew the pred physiology. I never said that blunt force trauma would take down a pred.

 

The fact still remains that Achilles knows his stuff when it comes to battle. When it comes to sword play, Achilles' weapons would hold up because he is skilled enough to recognize the difference in metals and deflecting blows would be more productive then stopping them with his sword or shield. So he could cause Scars attacks to glance off his sword and shield and avoid a direct hit to them. He seems to do this a lot in the movie anyways so that he has a more fluid sword play.

 

What I was getting at is that is Scar raises and arm Achilles could quite possibly stab through the unprotected armpit into the heart. He could land a killing strike up under the chin of Scar directly into the brain. He could stab underneath the breastplate lodging the the sword in any vital organs in the chest cavity. He could slice through in major arteries or tendons in the legs or arms causing Scar to begin to bleed out, thus affecting him to the degree of slowing him and making Scar an easier target. The predator has vital organs in its body. Its like when the Queen stabbed through the preds center and this incapacitated Scar killing him. The pred has tendons and muscles that if cut render that body part useless, Now where those things are located may be different but he would still have them in his physiology.

[xLEGACYx]

now dont assume your the only one that knows about Predators. I have read and ownSouth China Sea, Big Game, Cold War, Concrete Jungle, Turnabout, Flesh and Blood, Forever Midnight, AVP Prey, AVP Hunters Planet, AVP War and Batman VS Predator. Ive played Concrete Jungle and AVP. I also own every Predator or AVP movie. So I know a great deal about the character and his limits and such.

[G4hardcore]

A great deal of good points were made in this discussion. I'll likely have much to say, but I'll need a bit of time to think about it. I will say this is a very good match up.

[Guest skadoosh]

Achilles knows his stuff when it comes to battle. His aim with the spear from a distance is great along with the force behind his throw. When it comes to sword play, Achilles' weapons would hold up because he is skilled enough to recognize the difference in metals and deflecting blows would be more productive then stopping them with his sword or shield. So he could cause Scars attacks to glance off his sword and shield and avoid a direct hit to them. He seems to do this a lot in the movie anyways so that he has a more fluid sword play.

 

This is all a very good example of Achilles battle-prowess and general skill. Thanks for the opinion, dude.

 

From how I see it.... This is going to be excruciatingly close. Hell, a part of me does want to say Achillies but a part of me also wants to say Scar.

 

Good.

 

Also, your other points were very good, thanks for the detail.

 

I understand he is wearing armor but that scene demonstrates the precision of his strikes. While Predators physiology may be different from humans. Achilles struck once with his sword and took out 4 to 5 organs.

 

Now Im not declaring one character to beat the other but Achilles does have the skill and precision to work past the preds armor

 

This ^ is a prime example of Achilles' precision.

 

Never said he was more skilled, but Scar is highly skilled that it doesn't really matter. Achilles has longer reach, but one swipe of the wrist blades and that spear is done.

 

True, but then he's got his sword. As mentioned previously, Achilles will try to parry blows rather then allow their weapons to meet when he realizes how much stronger his opponents weapons are, and he has the precision and skill to get hits in on Scar despite the armour. Also, remember, Scar's head is vulnerable.

 

A great deal of good points were made in this discussion. I'll likely have much to say, but I'll need a bit of time to think about it. I will say this is a very good match up.

 

Thanks, dude, i'd appreciate the opinion whenever you can give it, of course.

[xLEGACYx]

I still believe the Scar would win but it would in no way be easy