kainboa Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You see when two boxes love each other very much, but one of the boxes is either burned or can't be bothered to raise some jive-ass kids, a motherbox is held responsible for raising the little cublings. But in all seriousness I don't know whether he has it because I'm unfamiliar with it. If it's the kind of thing that Darkseid always has on him, like batman with batarangs then sure. If it's more of a McGuffin that exists for occasional plot purposes and would be something he would have to go back to Apokolips to find then no. The arena is earth It's something Darkseid always has on him, though there's one small change, It's actually called a Father box, not a Mother box, though it's functionally the same thing. The mother boxes are a New Genesis thing, while the Father boxes are an Apocolips thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I would just like to point out that Darkseid can live without his actual body. He is a force of the universe. He would still exist and could create more avatars of himself. Also, seeing as how Darkseid has all the same powers as Manhattan, I cant fathom how Manhattan could simply erase him from existence. Darkseid's level of ability far exceeds Manhattans as he can not only clone himself but create whole other beings on level with Silver Surfer. As a last resort Darkseid can time travel where Manhattan can not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I would just like to point out that Darkseid can live without his actual body. He is a force of the universe. He would still exist and could create more avatars of himself. Also, seeing as how Darkseid has all the same powers as Manhattan, I cant fathom how Manhattan could simply erase him from existence. Darkseid's level of ability far exceeds Manhattans as he can not only clone himself but create whole other beings on level with Silver Surfer. Manhattan can do all of that. He has pretty comprehensive molecular control. As a last resort Darkseid can time travel where Manhattan can not. Well, firstly, it depends on what time-travel rules you're going by, and secondly, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 -snip- "Manhattan can do all of that. He has pretty comprehensive molecular control." Except for the "create whole other beings on the level of Silver Surfer", yea. But to a considerably lower degree than Darkseid. "Well, firstly, it depends on what time-travel rules you're going by, and secondly, see above." Either you can time-travel, or you can't. Darkseid can, Dr. Manhattan can't. Dr. Manhattan can see time, both future and past, from a 3rd person perspective, as if it was the present, but he can't actually time travel. All in all, Darkseid can do everything that Dr. Manhattan(except the temporal viewing), and he can do a lot more on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 snip I'm well aware of both of their capabilities, and i don't see enough of a difference to confirm that Manhattan cannot make clones of himself of a level of power similar to that of the Silver Surfer. There are many different "kinds" of time travel, as shown in a variety of films and books and whatnot. There are many different rules for how these different "kinds" of time travel work. So, Darkseid's ability to travel through time does not equal a win for him. That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 "I'm well aware of both of their capabilities, and i don't see enough of a difference to confirm that Manhattan cannot make clones of himself of a level of power similar to that of the Silver Surfer." At which point did I say that Manhattan can't make clones of himself? I said that he can't create completely new life forms, of a power level equal to Silver Surfer. Manhattan has shown the ability to make identical copies of himself, but the only showing of 'creating life', is a comment from him that "I like life, I think I'll go create some"(paraphrased). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 At which point did I say that Manhattan can't make clones of himself? I didn't say you said that. I said that he can't create completely new life forms, of a power level equal to Silver Surfer. Manhattan has shown the ability to make identical copies of himself, but the only showing of 'creating life', is a comment from him that "I like life, I think I'll go create some"(paraphrased). Manhattan can make copies of himself which have the same powers he does, which include molecular control on a subatomic level. They are all, in essence, him, just spread over several different physical bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xLEGACYx Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I didn't say you said that. Manhattan can make copies of himself which have the same powers he does, which include molecular control on a subatomic level. They are all, in essence, him, just spread over several different physical bodies.and again Darkseid has that ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Question since you guys are discussing Manhattan's abilities. If he can't time travel then what the hell happened in Before Watchmen? Is he looking at a alternate reality or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 and again Darkseid has that ability Exactly my point. They have the same abilities. Question since you guys are discussing Manhattan's abilities. If he can't time travel then what the hell happened in Before Watchmen? Is he looking at a alternate reality or what? Personally, i don't consider it important, but i'm not actually sure if it's canon or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Exactly my point. They have the same abilities. Yes, except for the fact that Darkseid has a bunch of abilities/powers that Dr. Manhattan doesn't have. Darkseid also has considerably more raw power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 It's canon since DC did say they were prequels to Watchmen. However it still begs the question with what is happening in Before Watchmen does he have time travel? Or are we now finding out he can look at alternate versions of himself in other Universes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deojusto Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Either way, if DS travels back in time he will encounter that time's Dr. Manhattan who won't see the travel through time as any form of change because he views all time as one. He'll see the travel as a linear progression and will just continue the same fight in that new time as if nothing had changed. It's not a competition of who has more powers if those powers don't make a difference. Short of going back in time and killing Manhattan before he became Manhattan, Darkseid's time manipulation is interesting, but a non-factor. And if DS could do such a thing, why the heck hasn't he just done so to Superman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hate to say this but like Methos said comic mechanics. Darkseid is written to be a God who has so much power it tends to be his downfall. Ego, overconfidence, pride and more keep him from killing Superman easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Either way, if DS travels back in time he will encounter that time's Dr. Manhattan who won't see the travel through time as any form of change because he views all time as one. He'll see the travel as a linear progression and will just continue the same fight in that new time as if nothing had changed. It's not a competition of who has more powers if those powers don't make a difference. Short of going back in time and killing Manhattan before he became Manhattan, Darkseid's time manipulation is interesting, but a non-factor. And if DS could do such a thing, why the heck hasn't he just done so to Superman? Considering that Darkseid has, with ease, taken down opponents far more powerful than Superman. The only reason he hasn't done it with Superman, is because Superman is the hero -.- Which, imo, is f*cking stupid. There are so many ways that Darkseid could insta-kill Superman, every time they fight. Molecular manipulation, being the most obvious. 'comics mechanics', is f*cking frustrating sometimes. It's why I stopped regularly reading most mainstream comics(I pretty much just skim through most of them nowadays, to keep uptodate). It's kinda hard to keep interested, when you think that the plots have holes you could push planets through -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Well I don't mind Superman defeating Darkseid and saving the day because Superman has lost in the past to some of his villains to be fair. However yes comic mechanics is *vulgarity*ing annoying sometimes. Captain America f**king annoys me at times. Comic mechanics with him can be worse then Superman or other heroes. Ironman had him dead multiple times in Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The whole reason Darkseid doesnt just kill Superman is because he would rather enslave him. He would like to take the Earth's greatest protector and turn him into his puppet for evil. To Darkseid that would be a much more rewarding victory than simply killing him. Similar to Final Crisis, Seid would rather enslave than destroy like he did to the Earth there. In his mind, what good does it do to rule everything when you have destroyed it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Yes, except for the fact that Darkseid has a bunch of abilities/powers that Dr. Manhattan doesn't have. Darkseid also has considerably more raw power. Raw power means nothing when you simply can't kill your opponent. And unless Darkseid has a very specific ability which allows him to instantly get rid of Manhattan, then his other powers don't matter. Either way, if DS travels back in time he will encounter that time's Dr. Manhattan who won't see the travel through time as any form of change because he views all time as one. He'll see the travel as a linear progression and will just continue the same fight in that new time as if nothing had changed. It's not a competition of who has more powers if those powers don't make a difference. Short of going back in time and killing Manhattan before he became Manhattan, Darkseid's time manipulation is interesting, but a non-factor. Yes, Dakrseid's time travel will only get him so far, and even if he did go back and kill Jon Osterman before he gained his powers then when he got back to his own time, depending on what time travel rules we go by, Manhattan might still be alive in that time. Captain America f**king annoys me at times. Comic mechanics with him can be worse then Superman or other heroes. Ironman had him dead multiple times in Civil War. Agreed, entirely. Superman is saved by comic mechanics too often, too, but at least he has the unfeasible and boring power to do so, sometimes. Cap simply shouldn't have lived this long in this good a condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indolent Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Darkseid would be able to kill Dr. Manhattan... Manhattan can't defeat Darkseid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skadoosh Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 If Darkseid's Omega Beams do simply erase atoms from existence then i guess he could "kill" Manhattan, but we don't know the extent of Manhattan's powers. Watchmen wasn't an action-based comic, it didn't rely on the character's powers and fights to entertain readers, so Manhattan's powers were never extensively explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Skadoosh is right. Alan Moore never fully went into all his powers. Before Watchmen with what is happening seems to prove their may be other aspects of his power we don't know about yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 If Darkseid's Omega Beams do simply erase atoms from existence then i guess he could "kill" Manhattan, but we don't know the extent of Manhattan's powers. Watchmen wasn't an action-based comic, it didn't rely on the character's powers and fights to entertain readers, so Manhattan's powers were never extensively explained. We do know though, that compared to other characters with similar powers, Manhattan is extremely limited in terms of range and raw power. By Dr. Manhattan's own words, if the Russians were to fire all of their nuclear missiles, he would only be able to stop about 80% of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deojusto Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 By Dr. Manhattan's own words, if the Russians were to fire all of their nuclear missiles, he would only be able to stop about 80% of them. You say that as if its unimpressive. The Russians had ridiculous amounts of missiles. They had enough to cover every square inch of the planet surface with explosion three times over. Stopping 80% of them in the maybe 15 minutes he had to intercept them seems pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nrdman Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 AAAAAHHHHH!!!!! BOTS!!!! RUN AWAY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Oh come on guys, I can really use a new handbag. They are FABULOUS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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