Rumble 12995 The Cullen Clan vs. New Avengers

[Guest force_echo]

Yeah, and the Twilight Vamps have no defense against Iron Fist's Mind Meld, and all the things he can do with it, or his hypnosis, or his more esoteric chi abilities, like Chi blasts or the Black Black Poison Touch.

[Guest force_echo]

Also, I'm pretty sure Blade's capable of taking down at least one, with his Adamantium acid-etched swords. Well, if we take into account his fastest shown reflex times in the comics.

[RakaiThwei]

Yeah, and the Twilight Vamps have no defense against Iron Fist's Mind Meld, and all the things he can do with it, or his hypnosis, or his more esoteric chi abilities, like Chi blasts or the Black Black Poison Touch.

 

Actually... Depending on which version of the Twlight vampires we're debating here.. Bella actually has the ability to project a shield onto other members of her coven, and even allied members of her coven. For example, when Jane of the Volturi had tried to use her manipulation of pain onto numerous members of the Cullen clan, Bella projected a sort of intangiable shield which nullified many abilities of the opposing side.

 

So... considering the shield's nullifying abilities... Those abilities might not work either as effectively or at all.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Indolent]

Inclined to go with the Vamps here.

[Guest bigballerju]

Actually... Depending on which version of the Twlight vampires we're debating here.. Bella actually has the ability to project a shield onto other members of her coven, and even allied members of her coven. For example, when Jane of the Volturi had tried to use her manipulation of pain onto numerous members of the Cullen clan, Bella projected a sort of intangiable shield which nullified many abilities of the opposing side.

 

So... considering the shield's nullifying abilities... Those abilities might not work either as effectively or at all.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

 

Okay that's a very good point there. But would that work against people that aren't vampires?

[RakaiThwei]

Okay that's a very good point there. But would that work against people that aren't vampires?

 

This is from the Twilight Wikia regarding Bella's shield and it's limitations:

 

Though this shield is powerful, it has many limitations. For instance, it cannot work against a physical attack, and an intruder can attack directly and even walk right through it. Also, if the intruder has a supernatural power, then once he is under the shield, his power will work effectively against anyone behind it, except for Bella, since she has a second shield specifically designed to protect herself.

 

Renesmee Cullen is the first individual to penetrate the shield, as she can place thoughts and images into anyone's mind, including her mother's.

 

Her shield is impotent against a power that is not invasive to the mind. Alice Cullen manages to get around it, because her ability allows her to sense the outcomes of decisions already made, which would probably relate more to the flow of time than to the minds of individuals. She also can't block Jasper Hale's ability to control emotions; Marcus's ability to read relationships as seen when he reads the love between her and Edward; Siobhan's ability to affect reality; Benjamin's control of natural elements because it's a purely physical power; James's tracking sense; and Fred's ability to physically repulse others.

 

So really in other words.... Iron Fist's Hypnosis and Mind Meld more than likely won't work. His chi based abilities... Well, provided if he can hit the Twilight vampires with them might work but I am unsure how the Black Poison Touch would work... considering that well... Twilight Vampires are essentially already dead.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

[Guest MarvelFan15]

Also, I'm pretty sure Blade's capable of taking down at least one, with his Adamantium acid-etched swords. Well, if we take into account his fastest shown reflex times in the comics.

 

How fast were these reaction times?

[Guest force_echo]

In one, it was fairly clear he was bullet timing. I'd have to check to make sure though.

 

Well, it looks like Bella's shield has a physical threshold, and once he's inside it, he can affect everyone except Bella herself, and since he fight close quarters anyway...

[xLEGACYx]

In one, it was fairly clear he was bullet timing. I'd have to check to make sure though.

 

Well, it looks like Bella's shield has a physical threshold, and once he's inside it, he can affect everyone except Bella herself, and since he fight close quarters anyway...

no.

 

Bella's power works for anyone inside her range. Judging by the movie is a couple hundred yards

 

Also the vamps Blade battles are considerably slower and weaker.

[Guest bigballerju]

In the comics the vampires Blade has fought have been just as strong though. Speed I am not too sure about.

[Guest skadoosh]

And to go with my other points about why the New Avengers probably/definitely win this, and the points others have made, the vampires are not going to be fighting as effectively as the New Avengers because they aren't as tactically knowledgeable, or as smart generally, as the superheroes are and they don't work as well as a team.

[Guest force_echo]

no.

 

Bella's power works for anyone inside her range. Judging by the movie is a couple hundred yards

 

Also the vamps Blade battles are considerably slower and weaker.

Umm, it says right in that quote that if a person is in within the physical range of the shield, the shield only works for Bella. It's called reading skills.

 

No, actually, some of them could probably murder the entire cast of Twilight fairly easily at their strongest.

[Guest bigballerju]

Yeah Force is right about that. I think they even showed that in the movie in the final battle.

[xLEGACYx]

Umm, it says right in that quote that if a person is in within the physical range of the shield, the shield only works for Bella. It's called reading skills.

 

No, actually, some of them could probably murder the entire cast of Twilight fairly easily at their strongest.

So that is why the shield worked for Jasper, Emmett, and Alice when Dakota Fanning's character tried to use her power on people all around the battlefield under her shield huh?

[Guest bigballerju]

Your also forgetting the fact Bella can still be attacked and then the shield around the others will drop.

[Guest force_echo]

So that is why the shield worked for Jasper, Emmett, and Alice when Dakota Fanning's character tried to use her power on people all around the battlefield under her shield huh?

Probably because Dakota Fanning's character wasn't within the physical range of the shield. Since Iron Fist works close combat, he's going to be.

[DSkillz]

The knowledge of the sparklies shown in this topic is almost scary for a site that debates comics battles.

 

Not really interesting into fully getting into this debate, but I just wanted to point something out here:

 

Their bodies and skin are made of a material that is as hard as diamond (if not harder); to humans it is impenetrable.

 

The toughness of diamond is very often overrated, especially in fiction. Yes, it's the hardest substance in the real world, but hardness in science only really refers to how well a substance can resist scratching. The hardest diamonds can only be scratched by other diamonds (or in fiction, tougher materials like adamantium and maybe carbonadium).

 

As far as resisting breakage from impact, diamond is actually weaker than the likes of iron, titanium, and some weaker materials. It's been shown that diamonds can be crushed by hammers.

[xLEGACYx]

Probably because Dakota Fanning's character wasn't within the physical range of the shield. Since Iron Fist works close combat, he's going to be.

hmm... probably is a speculation. Its a range power. Anyone within the scope of her range is protected. So Iron Fist can still throw punches and kicks but his chi powers should not work inside he shield. Everyone from Bella to the end of her range is protected.

 

Also while yes they can attack Bella, it just leaves another character open. Seeing as how Alice or Edward would see that coming, they could easily intercept.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

hmm... probably is a speculation. Its a range power. Anyone within the scope of her range is protected. So Iron Fist can still throw punches and kicks but his chi powers should not work inside he shield. Everyone from Bella to the end of her range is protected.

 

Also while yes they can attack Bella, it just leaves another character open. Seeing as how Alice or Edward would see that coming, they could easily intercept.

 

It's not speculation. I (unfortunately) have read this part of Breaking Dawn, and no, Jane was not within the bounds of Bella's shield.

 

EDIT:

The toughness of diamond is very often overrated, especially in fiction. Yes, it's the hardest substance in the real world, but hardness in science only really refers to how well a substance can resist scratching. The hardest diamonds can only be scratched by other diamonds (or in fiction, tougher materials like adamantium and maybe carbonadium).

 

As far as resisting breakage from impact, diamond is actually weaker than the likes of iron, titanium, and some weaker materials. It's been shown that diamonds can be crushed by hammers.

 

If that's the case, Stephenie Meyer just severely hamstrung her characters in terms of durability.

[Guest force_echo]

hmm... probably is a speculation. Its a range power. Anyone within the scope of her range is protected. So Iron Fist can still throw punches and kicks but his chi powers should not work inside he shield. Everyone from Bella to the end of her range is protected.

 

Also while yes they can attack Bella, it just leaves another character open. Seeing as how Alice or Edward would see that coming, they could easily intercept.

It's not speculation at all, it's how Bella's damn powers work. Again, learn how to read. So yes, Iron Fist could use Mind Meld or hypnosis.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

It's not speculation at all, it's how Bella's damn powers work. Again, learn how to read. So yes, Iron Fist could use Mind Meld or hypnosis.

 

To be fair, she can also form individual shields for form-fitting psychic protection if she's so inclined.

 

Not sure about how many she can form at once. Though, considering Stephenie Meyer, there probably is no limit.

[xLEGACYx]

 

It's not speculation at all, it's how Bella's damn powers work. Again, learn how to read. So yes, Iron Fist could use Mind Meld or hypnosis.

first off learn how to debate without hurling insults. Second, any vamp Bella chose was protected from other powers. It's not a dome of protection. Each person she chose was individually protected. So in essence there is no "getting inside her range". The individual is protected and not the area. She was able to protect anyone within the area of the battle field she chose.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

first off learn how to debate without hurling insults. Second, any vamp Bella chose was protected from other powers. It's not a dome of protection. Each person she chose was individually protected. So in essence there is no "getting inside her range". The individual is protected and not the area. She was able to protect anyone within the area of the battle field she chose.

 

No, it was a dome that protects anyone within it. She has difficulty protecting individuals.

[xLEGACYx]

 

 

No, it was a dome that protects anyone within it. She has difficulty protecting individuals.

whats wrong with that thinking is that none of the evil vamps were protected from the Cullen's powers or there friends. In the movie the "dome" was a representation of how far here powers could reach. It didn't mean the evil vamps inside the "dome" wall could use there powers

[Guest MarvelFan15]

whats wrong with that thinking is that none of the evil vamps were protected from the Cullen's powers or there friends. In the movie the "dome" was a representation of how far here powers could reach. It didn't mean the evil vamps inside the "dome" wall could use there powers

 

Powers can work so long as they travel form the inside out, not from the outside in. It's a one way filter meant to get the plot out of the corner Stephenie Wrote it into.