Darth Vader and Starkiller VS X-Men

[G4hardcore]

I debate-smacked Methos, it was easy. You just need a really fancy dueling glove.

[xLEGACYx]

A NEW CHALLENGER APPEARS!

 

Note to Sirmethos: One of these days, I'm going to come fully loaded to debate you. One of these da.....zzzzzzzzz.

 

SIRMETHOS

 

"Also what proof do you have Storm would be effected by a force lightening?"

 

The same as I have for Shadowcat, even phased, being at least partially effected. The fact that Force Lightning, is not just an electric charge, it also contains a spiritual element. As shown when a disembodied Luke Skywalker, was actually affected by the Lightning of Kyp Durron(controlled/manipulated by Exar Kun).

 

Storm could obviously avoid taking damage from the purely electrical part of the Force Lightning. But she has nothing to protect her against that spiritual aspect of the Force Lightning.

[treacherous]

I debate-smacked Methos, it was easy. You just need a really fancy dueling glove.

 

I used to debate people right off the CBUB. I used to research and post videos and pictures. But I can't keep my interest long enough anymore. I've got a few post in me, then...

 

There are a few old threads around here with me debating some of these others.

[G4hardcore]

Pretty much the only things that I can have a solid debate about these days are things I specialize in. Early on, I'd research topics I wasn't knowledgable about just as you. But nowadays, apathy and lathargy are so much more... pleasant. I'm finally coasting down my high hill! In all seriousness, I still get flashes of hot blood moments, I just pick and choose my battles.

[xLEGACYx]

I feel the same way on some things. Most of the time I only post on characters Im really familiar with. I remember when treach was really active on the CBUB side of the site. Back when he was a regular member.

[treacherous]

You know it can be argued that Darth Vader could kill Superman. Think about it. Superman shows up and is all, “Stop in the name of…blah blah blah.” Darth looking to make short work of the guy in the jetpack, simply force crushes him. It doesn’t work. Superman frowns and repeats himself. Darth realizes this guy is pretty hearty ups the Force and tries again. Again, nothing the big guy can’t shrug off. Finally Superman is like, “I warned you.” Thinking Vader is simply a telekinetic, he flies in with a force strong enough to counteract the Force he felt from Vader. It’s pretty fast. Problem being, he doesn’t anticipate the dozens of other skills the Sith have. Superman moves fast enough to incapacitate someone he thinks is weaker, but you know Supes, he’s not trying to kill the guy.

 

So Supes flies in head first like he normally does with intent to knock Vader out. Vader Force pushes him to slow him down - No effect. Uh oh, looks like Vader is about to get thumped. Psyche out! Vader releases the push at the last minute and ignites the lightsaber that impales Superman right through the head as he tumbles into Vader. With Superman’s speed and the sabers own abilities, Superman is effectively skewered. The end.

 

Vader pushes the dead Kryptonian off him and continues on to take over Metropolis.

[xLEGACYx]

You know it can be argued that Darth Vader could kill Superman. Think about it. Superman shows up and is all, “Stop in the name of…blah blah blah.†Darth looking to make short work of the guy in the jetpack, simply force crushes him. It doesn’t work. Superman frowns and repeats himself. Darth realizes this guy is pretty hearty ups the Force and tries again. Again, nothing the big guy can’t shrug off. Finally Superman is like, “I warned you.†Thinking Vader is simply a telekinetic, he flies in with a force strong enough to counteract the Force he felt from Vader. It’s pretty fast. Problem being, he doesn’t anticipate the dozens of other skills the Sith have. Superman moves fast enough to incapacitate someone he thinks is weaker, but you know Supes, he’s not trying to kill the guy.

 

So Supes flies in head first like he normally does with intent to knock Vader out. Vader Force pushes him to slow him down - No effect. Uh oh, looks like Vader is about to get thumped. Psyche out! Vader releases the push at the last minute and ignites the lightsaber that impales Superman right through the head as he tumbles into Vader. With Superman’s speed and the sabers own abilities, Superman is effectively skewered. The end.

 

Vader pushes the dead Kryptonian off him and continues on to take over Metropolis.

Thats assuming the lightsaber would work like that on Superman. He can fly into the sun and the lightsaber isnt hotter than that. (as far as I know. Could be wrong)

[G4hardcore]

Or, Vader could keep Superman from breathing for a few days. That might work.

[xLEGACYx]

Or, Vader could keep Superman from breathing for a few days. That might work.

That depends on whether when Vader force chokes, does he actually constrict the muscles or is it all mental?

 

If its mental I could see it working.

 

If its physical I could see supes overpowering it.

[G4hardcore]

I'm assuming he just logdes a telekinetic watermelon down Supes' gullet.

[G4hardcore]

It doesn't have to be pure pressure or constriction. It can be as simple as a blockage; you might not be able to choke a steel pipe, but you can clog it with hair!

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Supes can hold his breath for weeks. -shrug-

 

And a lightsaber would just bounce off the blue boyscout.

[G4hardcore]

See, that I did not know. Days yes, but weeks? DC might as well make it so that he doesn't need air at all. What's the purpose of two breaths a month?

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Heh. Force of habit, I suppose.

[Guest sirmethos]

Yeah, I'm fairly certain I have A.D.D. *Plays Angry Birds: Star Wars*

 

I know for a fact that I have A.D.D.(also known as introverted ADHD). That doesn't prevent me from thinking my arguments through.

 

 

You know it can be argued that Darth Vader could kill Superman. Think about it. Superman shows up and is all, “Stop in the name of…blah blah blah.†Darth looking to make short work of the guy in the jetpack, simply force crushes him. It doesn’t work. Superman frowns and repeats himself. Darth realizes this guy is pretty hearty ups the Force and tries again. Again, nothing the big guy can’t shrug off. Finally Superman is like, “I warned you.†Thinking Vader is simply a telekinetic, he flies in with a force strong enough to counteract the Force he felt from Vader. It’s pretty fast. Problem being, he doesn’t anticipate the dozens of other skills the Sith have. Superman moves fast enough to incapacitate someone he thinks is weaker, but you know Supes, he’s not trying to kill the guy.

 

So Supes flies in head first like he normally does with intent to knock Vader out. Vader Force pushes him to slow him down - No effect. Uh oh, looks like Vader is about to get thumped. Psyche out! Vader releases the push at the last minute and ignites the lightsaber that impales Superman right through the head as he tumbles into Vader. With Superman’s speed and the sabers own abilities, Superman is effectively skewered. The end.

 

Vader pushes the dead Kryptonian off him and continues on to take over Metropolis.

 

This is actually a pretty plausible scenario. Up until "the end".

 

Ending the scenario there, assumes 1. That Superman's speed will generate enough force, to push the lightsaber through the energy field giving Superman his invulnerability(or at least a large part of his invulnerability). 2. That Darth Vader, when the lightsaber in his hand gets hit with the force of Superman speed-flying into it, has the strength to keep the lightsaber in place(or the mental speed to utilize the Force in order to keep it in place), to avoid that the lightsaber is simply pushed away. 3. That the lightsaber will actually cause fatal(or at least incapacitating) injury to Superman if/when impaling him.

 

The add-on, of Vader going on to "push the dead kryptonian off of him, then go on to take over Metropolis", makes the assumption that Superman's speed is low enough that Darth Vader can survive the impact of Superman's body hitting him(which, considering that it takes force comparable to superman's own general level of strength to penetrate his protective energy field in order to actually damage him, directly contradicts the first assumption mentioned above).

 

 

Could Darth Vader kill Superman? Absolutely.

 

Could a believable scenario be written, without needing extensive research, where Darth Vader kills Superman, then moves on to rule Metropolis? Absolutely, it could easily be done.

 

But while your above scenario is definitely entertaining(if I was to rate it like a match-setup, I would give it a , it is not the answer to the above two questions(if needs be, I'll write a scenario myself, answering the latter of the above two questions. the writing quality likely won't be as good as your own scenario though).

[treacherous]

I know for a fact that I have A.D.D.(also known as introverted ADHD). That doesn't prevent me from thinking my arguments through.

 

I know for a fact that I know absolutely nothing about all those A's and D's. I know that it sounded like some sort of plausible ailment to blame my lack of extra effort besides my own imagination in debating. Seems, I'll have to find some other imaginary ailment.

 

Don't think you're going to goad me into trying harder either Sirmethos. I've learned slacking from the best on here.

 

But while your above scenario is definitely entertaining(if I was to rate it like a match-setup, I would give it a , it is not the answer to the above two questions(if needs be, I'll write a scenario myself, answering the latter of the above two questions. the writing quality likely won't be as good as your own scenario though).

 

Good to see I can throw together some quick near nonsense and still get a B. You're right about the force of impact. I thought about that, but alas and yet again, didn't have the force of will to change it. Vader could possibly hold it together to complete the stab, but he'd probably need an infirmary afterwards.

[Guest force_echo]

There is no way Darth Vader could kill Superman without some incredibly insane PIS working.

[Guest bigballerju]

Vader's main abilities would not kill Superman. Force Choke, Force Push, Force Destruction, and more would not kill Superman or do any damage. Where are people getting lightsabers would even harm Superman? There is nothing magical or spiritual to lightsabers if you have read how they are constructed.

[treacherous]

My theory wasn't PIS. It was plausible. Vader may die upon impact, but it was plausible. Both were in character. I used their usual MO when attacking. The only question is could the lightsaber pierce Superman's skin and personal field. I'd say yes, especially if the Big Blue comes zooming at him at super speeds. He pierces himself. Question is, could Darth hold up to the force of impact to do the piercing. I mean, he is obviously seeing the strength of this guy in the prelude to impact, so he'd brace himself or do whatever needed to succeed in the cut. Plus, it is a lightsaber. Meaning it ignites a light speed. Superman can dodge yes, because he reacts at faster speeds (I believe), but that's just it. The Sith way is a feint within a feint within a feint. The saber isn't going to be immediately ignited. Darth would surprise Supes at the last minute. With all that Force voodoo, Darth could do it.

 

Not too PIS. Especially since I'm not pushing any plot to be stupid about. Sirmethos says there are many other ways. I could probably think of a few more if I actually thought about it. We'll see what the debate-man comes up with.

[treacherous]

Four questions I see in my scenario:

1. How strong is Darth Vader (plus Force)
   
2. How fast would Supes be flying? Enough to push past a Vader induced Force push (But remember the push is merely a ploy to throw the big blue off balance for the kill strike).
   
3. (Depending on the speed of Supes and the strength of his durability and the cutting ability of the saber) Can it pierce his head upon impact?
   
4. Can Vader withstand the possibly injured and incoming Superman? He’d have to stand his ground however for the attack to work. A slash would NOT DO IT. It would have to be a pierce. Vader would have to stand his ground regardless of impact.
   

[Guest force_echo]

Yeah, no. The lightsaber can't pierce Superman. And no, there's no way Vader would withstand an impact with a speeding Supes.

[treacherous]

So, we just take your word for it since you're the creator of both franchises? You got anything to back this up, big guy?

 

Why couldn’t Darth withstand it? Supes would see Darth as a low level meta-human threat. Not worth putting in any sort of real speed. He just needs to incapacitate the guy. It’s not like he’s fighting Doomsday and needs to do lightspeed punches. Now Darth is a Lord Sith. He’s more than capable of throwing around extremely heavy objects. So I’m not sure why he wouldn’t be able to survive Supes going at a non-killing speed. If Darth is throwing perhaps a car going at 50 mph level force at him, Supes would just push 60 or 70 mph to hit him, so again Supes isn’t trying to kill him and Darth isn’t really trying to hold him back. Again, the question is can the Saber pierce him. From my understanding they can pierce anything with enough time and push. But at a suitable speed, I think it can do it. Wolverine has pierced nigh-invulnerable types like this numerous times. Why not Darth?

[Guest bigballerju]

Darth's suit wouldn't be able to take such a impact. Darth Vader's is most definitely not that durability b any means. The extended universe has shown this. Also Superman is fast enough reflex wise the second he see's Vader ignite his lightsaber he can smack it away easily. By the way if we are going in character new 52 Superman doesn't do all that talking like his former self and depending on how this battle starts he would have no problem speed blitzing Vader from the start. Vader isn't fast enough to take out a lightsaber and pierce Superman with it before Superman could attack him. Superman kicks the crap out of guys more powerful then Vader on a daily basis in his comic. Also Superman isn't stupid. He could x-ray Vader to see what weapons Vader has and disarm him in seconds.Superman in the second issue of Justice League actually used x-ray to see whether Batman had anything in his belt. Shows you Superman doesn't always rush head on first in battle and not think things through. Look at the way Superman was attacking Batman and Green Lantern in Justice League. Superman wasn't holding back that much and look how fast as well as powerful he was attacking. Hell Green Lantern even screamed at Flash when trying to convince him to help that Superman was going to kill them. That's how fast and powerful Superman attacking.

 

Finally people are forgetting Superman's new suit is a kryptonian bio-tech battle armor. What's to say the lightsaber would even be able to pierce that? Superman from a distance could unleash his heat vision to take out Vader which from what I have seen of Superman so far in this reboot he most definitely would do it. Superman could also unleash enough heat vision to knock out Vader but not kill him. Being that Vader's suit couldn't take a combination of a flamethrower and blasters like shown in a issue of Lost Command I say Superman wouldn't even need alot of heat vision to defeat him.

[Guest force_echo]

Your understanding is wrong. I have no idea where this idea that a beam of superheated plasma can cut through anything is coming from, but Superman can withstand going through the heart of a sun with no real trouble. A freaking flashlight in comparison isn't going to do anything to Superman. He doesn't have to push lightspeed, an impact at 100 mph will kill Vader, it's not like he has significantly superhuman durability.

[Guest sirmethos]

Your understanding is wrong. I have no idea where this idea that a beam of superheated plasma can cut through anything is coming from, but Superman can withstand going through the heart of a sun with no real trouble. A freaking flashlight in comparison isn't going to do anything to Superman. He doesn't have to push lightspeed, an impact at 100 mph will kill Vader, it's not like he has significantly superhuman durability.

 

Your logic is wrong -.-

 

1. "Superman can withstand going through the heart of a sun with no real trouble". Yea, I thought it was relatively common knowledge, at least on this site, but the radiation from the Sun is what gives Superman his powers. Flying through "the heart of a sun" is, for Superman, not an impressive feat. It's like saying that Blue Marvel has durability beyond most of the non-cosmics in Marvel, because he could fly through a huge anti-matter energy core, without taking any damage from it.

 

I do understand your point, but the example you're using for comparison here(flying through a sun) is just plain stupid.

 

 

2. "an impact at 100 mph will kill Vader, it's not like he has significantly superhuman durability". Where the Superman durability comparison was stupid, the statement about Vader's durability is just plain false. I'm not sure if it's due to ignorance, or for some other, less obvious, reason. Regardless, allow me to correct the mistake.

 

Vader's entire suit is actually armor, made from a mix of plastoid(the stuff that most of the stormtrooper's armors is made of), durasteel(the majority of his armor is made of this. it's primarily used for buildings, and spacecraft hulls), with his cape being made of Armorweave(same stuff as what the bodysuits worn by mandalorians under their armors is made of).

 

His entire armor is blast-dampening, pretty much impervious to fire, as well as concussive force(extreme well protected against explosions).

 

All this, is without taking into account, anything that Vader might do with the Force, to protect himself from impact.