N7 vs. Jedi

[Guest force_echo]

4 N7 soldiers, armed with N7 Defender Armor and a combination of the N7 Eagle, N7 Hurricane, N7 Valkyrie, N7 Piranha, N7 Crusader, N7 Typhoon, and N7 Valiant. One's a Soldier, One's a Vanguard, One's an Adept, and One's an Engineer. The Soldier has Armor Piercing ammo instead of incendiary.

 

They go against 4 Jedi Masters in an arena about 3 football fields long (both opponents start at opposite ends) with ample cover.

[C.T.]

It would help to know the preferred forms of combat the Jedi Masters are utilizing.

[Guest Jason Redfield]

The only hope of the Jedi here is to close the distance while using cover and Force Speed. Their lightsabers will make short work of the N7s, but if the Jedi get caught at a distance, they're done. Slugthrowers -- particularly ones capable of rapid fire -- are canonically stated to be effective anti-Jedi weapons. The mass accelerators the N7 guys have are pretty much the pinnacle of solid slug technology.

[Guest force_echo]

Which forms? Lets say two are masters of the most effective defensive form and the other two are masters of the most effective offensive form.

 

As for closing in, they have force speed and jump. As for how effective that is, Wookiepedia said by one Jedi Master's own estimate he was able to cross 100 meters in one second. So if they all went all out, they'd cross the span in a little more than 3 seconds. 3 seconds might not seem like a lot, but in a gunfight it is. Just to give an idea about the level of training N7 soldiers have, N1 is equivalent to modern special forces training like the Navy SEALs or British SAS. Also, the jump from N6 to N7 is a bigger jump than the other levels.

 

If the Jedi close in to melee it would be hard, but remember that the soldiers have the Piranha (a fully automatic combat shotgun) and the Crusader.

[C.T.]

Well the Soresu masters are good for defending against blasters but fully automatic would make short work of them. Considering the Vaapad masters have to close the distance to be effective with their sabers, which takes a few seconds and they're ill equipped to handle the threat with those two forms and sabers. So that route leads to a loss for that.

 

However if they used the Force primarily, they can level the advantage. They wouldn't use choke or such, most likely, being Jedi. However there are plenty of things they could do, Force stun, push, wave etc, all of which can disorient the N7s for a few seconds to close the distance and then use their sabers. That would render a win pretty handily for the Jedi.

 

That's assuming the N7s don't use their own abilities, like Pull, Charge and the like. The vanguards with Charge and Shotgun Blast immediately after would be enormously effective.

 

Honestly, I can see this going many different ways, for both sides. That's probably the point...it really is pretty damn even.

 

All in all, I'm leaning towards the N7s 6/10 times due to the range of the fight, their weapons being more or less anti-Jedi in terms of blockablility and speed, plus their own assortment of Force-like abilities.

[Guest The Lord Dragon Reborn]

Stomp, Jedi!

[Guest The Lord Dragon Reborn]

^{Give me force powers over guns and armor anyday.}

[Guest force_echo]

Yeah, great reason for this being a stomp.

[Guest Jason Redfield]

Just to give an idea about the level of training N7 soldiers have, N1 is equivalent to modern special forces training like the Navy SEALs or British SAS. Also, the jump from N6 to N7 is a bigger jump than the other levels.

 

I don't know. That could be stretching it. I'd say all of the N7 levels have various analogues in modern day special operations units. ICT strikes me as something like Ranger School on steroids. I think N7 is roughly equivalent to top-tier SMUs.

 

Regardless, I'm favoring the N7s here. A lot of things would have to go just right for the Jedi to win, although it's possible.

[xLEGACYx]

If theoretically it takes the Jedi 3 seconds to cross the distance that's the n7's have time to draw and get one shot off. That's just not enought to win against 4 masters.

 

With their superior reflexes and battle intuition, they should have enough of an advantage to win here.

[C.T.]

Oh I think 3 seconds is enough for N7s...plus you got to factor in the soldier and his adrenaline rush which makes it more than 3 seconds...

[kainboa]

The jedi doesn't need to see their opponents in order to affect them with the force, one fairly simple way for them to win, would be to join their power together, and crush them.

 

A group of half trained students were able to thrust 3 star destroyers away from Yavin and into a different solar system, 4 masters should be capable of crushing 4 foot soldiers.

[Guest Jason Redfield]

Fair enough, although it's worth noting that armor upgrades exist in Mass Effect that are specifically aimed at reducing the effectiveness of telekinesis against the wearer (crushing attacks and the like).

 

ME biotics need not see their targets to use their powers, either. Not to mention there are some abilities of the other classes which can be used indirectly.

[Guest force_echo]

The jedi doesn't need to see their opponents in order to affect them with the force, one fairly simple way for them to win, would be to join their power together, and crush them.

 

A group of half trained students were able to thrust 3 star destroyers away from Yavin and into a different solar system, 4 masters should be capable of crushing 4 foot soldiers.

Yeah, except that Jedi Masters aren't apt to do that. And all it takes it for the N7 biotics to launch off warp fields, since the Jedi Masters have no defense against that, especially since your generic Jedi Master doesn't wear much armor. In fact, the Jedi really don't have much of a defense against much of the biotic powers. The N7s could launch Singularities to cover against jedi, then use warp or maybe pull for death/easy targets. Or throw a hail of bullets their way as soon as the match starts and they acquire the target.

 

Also, I'm fairly sure from the collection of feats they have, no unnamed or one-shot jedi master has anywhere near even 1/4th the power to hurl 3 Star Destroyets away from Yavin and into different solar systems

[Guest force_echo]

I don't know. That could be stretching it. I'd say all of the N7 levels have various analogues in modern day special operations units. ICT strikes me as something like Ranger School on steroids. I think N7 is roughly equivalent to top-tier SMUs.

 

Regardless, I'm favoring the N7s here. A lot of things would have to go just right for the Jedi to win, although it's possible.

I dunno. According to Bioware's blog post about N7 training, only the Earth's very best officers from all branches of Earth's military powers are even eligible. The finest of those get to attend "the villa". After participating in scenarios experienced by the "elite units of most land based armies", which includes training more than 20 hours a day for an extended period of time, the best performing ones reach the designation of N1. To get an actual N7 designation, you not only need to get through 5 more levels of hardcore training, you need to distinguish yourself in an actual combat scenario in an admirable and effective fashion.

 

Also: "It should be pointed out that there is no stigma attached not to receiving an N-designation – the training is so extreme that even qualifying for an N1 course is considered above and beyond normal duty."

[C.T.]

Whoa. Hardcore training indeed.

[Guest Jason Redfield]

I dunno. According to Bioware's blog post about N7 training, only the Earth's very best officers from all branches of Earth's military powers are even eligible. The finest of those get to attend "the villa". After participating in scenarios experienced by the "elite units of most land based armies", which includes training more than 20 hours a day for an extended period of time, the best performing ones reach the designation of N1.

 

Hyperbole, same as is often done when describing modern special ops. The 20 hours a day thing is nothing special; a friend of mine has gone through worse. I'm reading the codex entry on it right now, and it really seems like the N1 course is just the selection course or, like I said, Ranger School. The subsequent courses are the actual skills training.

 

The age of Shepard when he/she is N7, the dialogue in the game, etc. implies to me that the whole gambit of N designations are pretty much directly comparable to modern day special ops troops at some level. It doesn't really make sense for them to be worlds ahead of modern equivalents.

[Guest force_echo]

Very few special forces training actually choose from already distinguished, elite special forces officers. and that's BEFORE the first cut. That's not even the start of the training. As for the 20 hours thing, its true that SEALs go through the same thing for about a week, but they get 4 meals a day. N recruits get barely any food.

 

Also, it makes sense that they would have to be that trained, because their fighting a different game. They're not only trained in ground ops, they have to do "zero-G fighting, military free-fall (parachuting), jetboot/jetpack flight, combat diver qualification, close-quarter combatives instructor courses, first responder/combat lifesaver training for human and alien biology, language instruction, assault procedures, naval gunfire training, close air support courses, diplomacy, driving, maintaining, and shooting from several types of vehicles and powered armor, and joint communications courses." And that's not even the complete run.

[xLEGACYx]

here the N7 are fighting foes faster, with battle pre cog, a blade that can cut through most things with ease, and can launch massively powerful invisible attacks.

[Guest force_echo]

And the Jedi are fighting extremely highly trained soldiers with weapons they have no experience with, probably can't dodge or deflect (which I assume is the reason why slugthrowers are canonically a Jedi's weakness) who can also launch massively powerful invisible attacks.

[xLEGACYx]

in the end the N7 are Mandalorians with some added attacks.

 

the jedi have experience with soldier types like the N7. The N7 have no experince with what the jedi masters can do.

[C.T.]

Okay, the Mandalorians typically give Jedi a hell of a hard fight...

 

Now let's say the Mandalorians had Force like abilities in addition to anti-jedi weapons...and one of them can slow down time. Yeah...

[Guest force_echo]

Except the fact that-

 

A: Beskar wearing Mandalorians can take Jedi Masters one on one, and some, like Jango or Boba Fett have killed multiple.

 

B: N7 troops are nothing like Mandalorians. They have armor that is specifically designed against plasma, heat-based weapons (like, say, a lightsaber), they have different weapons specifically catering to the weaknesses of Jedi, and different training. Oh, a huge difference, they have powers.

[xLEGACYx]

Okay, the Mandalorians typically give Jedi a hell of a hard fight...

 

Now let's say the Mandalorians had Force like abilities in addition to anti-jedi weapons...and one of them can slow down time. Yeah...

but 4 on 4 the N7 dont have the number advantage like the Mandalorians normally do and they are completely prepared for the jedi. Also again the N7 dont have experience with foes like the jedi. Much less 4 masters

[Guest force_echo]

but 4 on 4 the N7 dont have the number advantage like the Mandalorians do. Also again the N7 dont have experience with foes like the jedi. Much less 4 masters

And the masters have no experience with N7 soldiers. In fact, they'll probably underestimate them fairly severely.