Vigilante beat down

[Guest bigballerju]

You said those scans showed Batman was able to best Wonder Woman which they don't. I addressed each one of those scans already. You have not shown Batman could best Wonder Woman in a straight out H2H battle and you have not shown Batman could hang with Wonder Woman in a straight out fight even with her physical abilities.

 

Now is that more clear? Not being rude but I want to word this correctly so you understand what I am saying.

[The Void]

You said those scans showed Batman was able to best Wonder Woman which they don't. I addressed each one of those scans already. You have not shown Batman could best Wonder Woman in a straight out H2H battle and you have not shown Batman could hang with Wonder Woman in a straight out fight even with her physical abilities.

 

Now is that more clear? Not being rude but I want to word this correctly so you understand what I am saying.

 

What? I think you need to understand what I am saying...Just because I said Batman was able to best Wonder Women in skill does not equal him beating her. How would Batman best Wonder Women in a straight H2H fight when he is physically stronger. My whole point of the scans were that Batman due to his skills is able to in the skill department best Wonder Women. Again I am only talking about skill and nothing else. Let me just post the first group of scans again...

 

"Batman counters Wonder Woman’s every move while trying to talk her down as Wonder Woman is unable to defeat Batman with her skill or hold him with her magical lasso. Wonder Woman ends up having to use her powers (super strength and speed) to take Batman down (JLA: A League of One)..."

http://i.imgur.com/9pG3o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7TDD2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U6J47.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cu0G6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ARgqg.jpg

 

No Batman DID NOT BEAT HER. But Wonder Woman could not simple use her skills to take him down, but her speed and strength. And the scans clearly show that, if you can't see that then I don't know...Not only that Wonder Women was being the aggressor in the fight and to top it off, Batman stated one of her moves were "so predictable." I hope I worded it correctly so you can understand. Not being rude.

[Guest force_echo]

Oh wow. Forget the flashbangs, he has a lot of other gadgets he could use that would prove to be more useful.

Like his explosive weapons.

 

Question: would the device that attracts bats screw with DD? I think it might. It would def. Make it hard for him to track Batman down, and no one else would be able to find him.

 

 

No.. Just.. No. Batman is def. more skilled than DD in h2h combat.

What would his explosive weapons do to stun Daredevil? It's not like he hasn't heard a boom before.

 

No... they wouldn't at all. Last time I checked, Bats don't smell/sound like humans.

 

Wow, you make such a compelling case. How is Batman greater at hand to hand combat? Or are you going to say "because he's Batman"?

 

Part of Batman's suit could block out his heartbeat from Supes, which has better hearing than DD.... just saying.

And that's complete PIS bullshit. Superman has X-Ray and thermal imaging, he can even see the E/M spectrum. Martian Manhunter's a FREAKING TELEPATH. Besides, hearing isn't the only super sense Daredevil has, and unlike the JLA, he'll actually use them.

[Guest force_echo]

Sorry I took long.

 

 

 

Again we can agree to disagree on this. Just beacuse he was trying to stop Daredevil, doesn't mean he was really trying to hurt Daredevil. IIRC Daredevil and T'Challa are friends. Also I never really stated Daredevil didn't win that fight, I really stated that is not a really good impressive win for Daredevil. Again we can agree to disagree. This isn't getting us no where and it has nothing to do with this match.

 

 

 

From what I've seen, X'x body reading is better than Daredevil's. Again we can agree to disagree on this since this has nothing to do with the match.

 

 

I stand corrected then.

 

 

 

1. What do you mean I have no proof? I already posted scans. How am I making assumptions when I have already posted scans??? The first scans I posted shows Batman getting the better of her. Batman was besting her in skill and he was able to escape her lasso's. That's when see started using her speed and strength, the scans clearly show it. Also Wonder Women did not show any 'skills' when she broke out of Batman's hold. It just looked like she used her strength since she is stronger than Batman.

2. LOL...How is it making 'an ass' out of me.

3. Who said I said Wonder Women still had her skill when she was possessed Point being Batman was able to hang with someone who is physically superior to him in strength and speed.

It's not getting us nowhere because you literally do not make sense at all in this argument. Even if Panther wasn't trying, and neither was Daredevil, so DD still wins. It's not like DD was trying to kill BP and BP was just like "meh."

 

Yeah, that's what I said in the first place.

 

And I say its her skills, it takes freaking skill to break out of a hold, that's an example of skill. Do you know for a fact that she used super strength to get out of that hold? Did you call up the writer? No? According to Webster, YOU'RE MAKING AN ASSUMPTION. If there was any part of that you could not comprehend, tell me. If she was using Super Strength, Batman would have had something broken, at the very least gotten physically hurt. Besides maybe getting the wind knocked out of him, he looks perfectly freaking fine.

 

You clearly posted that as an example of Batman's skill, since that was your freaking point in the first place. If you're point is that he can hang with someone on Wonder Woman's physical level, you are deflated by YOUR OWN ARGUMENT. Since you yourself are making a point that if Wonder Woman used her physical abilities, she could beat Batman, but on a skill level, Batman is better. Even when you're trying to get out of your own hole you don't make any freaking sense.

[Guest Darxeth]

Is DD immune to being hurt by explosions? Didn't think so.

 

Also, Bats use a sense similar to radar (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Batman has shown more impressive feats than DD regarding martial arts.

 

He's been trained by more "Sticks" and is held in higher regard in his universe than DD is in his, again regarding martial arts.

 

He's stronger than DD is and is def. Smarter when it comes to fighting as well.

He can outsmart DD and beat him senseless unarmed.

 

Besides, as I've said before, Batman has a lot of gadgets that could disrupt DD awareness.

Tear gas, for example, would screw DD up as well, since I don't think he's trained to fight against it. (again, correct me if I'm wrong)

 

 

 

[Guest bigballerju]

What? I think you need to understand what I am saying...Just because I said Batman was able to best Wonder Women in skill does not equal him beating her. How would Batman best Wonder Women in a straight H2H fight when he is physically stronger. My whole point of the scans were that Batman due to his skills is able to in the skill department best Wonder Women. Again I am only talking about skill and nothing else. Let me just post the first group of scans again...

 

"Batman counters Wonder Woman’s every move while trying to talk her down as Wonder Woman is unable to defeat Batman with her skill or hold him with her magical lasso. Wonder Woman ends up having to use her powers (super strength and speed) to take Batman down (JLA: A League of One)..."

http://i.imgur.com/9pG3o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7TDD2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U6J47.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cu0G6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ARgqg.jpg

 

No Batman DID NOT BEAT HER. But Wonder Woman could not simple use her skills to take him down, but her speed and strength. And the scans clearly show that, if you can't see that then I don't know...Not only that Wonder Women was being the aggressor in the fight and to top it off, Batman stated one of her moves were "so predictable." I hope I worded it correctly so you can understand. Not being rude.

 

Those scans do not show Batman or Wonder Woman using there fighting skill. Batman didn't counter every move of Wonder Woman as if it were a H2H fight. It shows Batman using his batrangs and bat grapple. Those scans don't prove anything. What do you mean Wonder Woman was unable to defeat Batman using her skill? Batman and Wonder Woman weren't even fighting in a straight out H2H combat. If anything it was stupid on Batman's part to try to use his bat grapple and batrang on her.

[Guest bigballerju]

Is DD immune to being hurt by explosions? Didn't think so.

 

Also, Bats use a sense similar to radar (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Batman has shown more impressive feats than DD regarding martial arts.

 

He's been trained by more "Sticks" and is held in higher regard in his universe than DD is in his, again regarding martial arts.

 

He's stronger than DD is and is def. Smarter when it comes to fighting as well.

He can outsmart DD and beat him senseless unarmed.

 

Besides, as I've said before, Batman has a lot of gadgets that could disrupt DD awareness.

Tear gas, for example, would screw DD up as well, since I don't think he's trained to fight against it. (again, correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Batman doesn't have a sense or radar even remotely close to Daredevil. Daredevil's feats are just as impressive as Batman. You know Daredevil is held in high regard and is known as one of the best right? Daredevil is just as smart in battle. What many gadgets Batman has? The flashbang? That mostly blinds your victim so it's worthless. Smoke pellet? Worthess. How often you see Batman use tear gas? Not often. You want me to continue? What explosions is Batman gone do to hurt Daredevil? Oh and Daredevil has faster reflexes then Batman. Daredevil speed wise also is faster.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Is DD immune to being hurt by explosions? Didn't think so.

 

An explosion will hurt even a normal person's ears. I think the idea is that it will hurt DD's ears even more. While this seems to make sense I haven't seen anyone post evidence one way or the other.

 

Also, Bats use a sense similar to radar (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Bats use sonar, which is similar in principle but uses sound waves instead of radio waves. Using the bat device on DD is an interesting idea. Lots of small creatures flying erratically would be a lot for his radar to handle. That much incoming data could be confusing. I don't remember seeing him ever have to deal with this sort of thing though.

[xLEGACYx]

Actually the concussive force of the blast disrupts you equilibrium. It messes with the inner ear and can cause disorientation. The flash is just one effect.

[The Void]

It's not getting us nowhere because you literally do not make sense at all in this argument. Even if Panther wasn't trying, and neither was Daredevil, so DD still wins. It's not like DD was trying to kill BP and BP was just like "meh."

No I was basically saying that was not an impressive win for Daredevil.

 

And I say its her skills, it takes freaking skill to break out of a hold, that's an example of skill. Do you know for a fact that she used super strength to get out of that hold? Did you call up the writer? No? According to Webster, YOU'RE MAKING AN ASSUMPTION. If there was any part of that you could not comprehend, tell me. If she was using Super Strength, Batman would have had something broken, at the very least gotten physically hurt. Besides maybe getting the wind knocked out of him, he looks perfectly freaking fine.

 

First off calm down...Second off, Batman had her pinned down to the ground and the scan clearly looked like she was using her strength since she is easily stronger than Batman. How is that an 'assumption'? When it is clear that Wonder Woman is stronger than Batman? No there is nothing that I am not comprehending. And also Batman was knocked out.

 

You clearly posted that as an example of Batman's skill, since that was your freaking point in the first place. If you're point is that he can hang with someone on Wonder Woman's physical level, you are deflated by YOUR OWN ARGUMENT. Since you yourself are making a point that if Wonder Woman used her physical abilities, she could beat Batman, but on a skill level, Batman is better. Even when you're trying to get out of your own hole you don't make any freaking sense.

 

What???

 

Lol...I always admitted Wonder Woman would beat Batman. The main point I was making is that Batman was better than Wonder Woman skill wise, and it is his skill that is able to best Wonder Women. When did I EVER MENTION PHYSICAL LEVEL!? Again the point I was making is because of Batman's skill's and his tactics he is able to hang with Wonder Woman for a while but not physically. Captain America is not no wear near Hulk's level, but with his skill he is able to best the Hulk in that department, doesn't mean Cap can beat the Hulk in a straight up fight. I do not know how I have 'deflated' my argument Echo's.

 

 

No one is trying to get out of their hole.

 

Batman still wins this match anyways. People on this thread already posted how Daredevil's radar senses could be countered. The only thing Daredevil really has on Batman is his radar senses and acrobats. While Batman has all his gadgets and is a much more skilled fighter than Daredevil and that's a fact. I am willing to bet that Batman is much more stronger than Daredevil since he trained his body to its almost limit, he has also trained his body to fight four hours straight without resting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen Daredevil put his body to the limit like Batman, who can go on for days without rest.

 

Batman would be able to fight Daredevil for hours without getting tired.

 

And again what will Daredevil do against an explosion, which everyone on this thread has mentioned. That will affect Daredevil's enhanced senses. I believe Batman DOES carry Explosive batarang as an standard equipment(someone correct me if I am wrong). There is also the Electric batarangs deliver powerful electric shocks to whatever they come in contact with.

 

Oh I believe no one hasn't countered anything on the Bat-darts..

[The Void]

Those scans do not show Batman or Wonder Woman using there fighting skill. Batman didn't counter every move of Wonder Woman as if it were a H2H fight. It shows Batman using his batrangs and bat grapple. Those scans don't prove anything. What do you mean Wonder Woman was unable to defeat Batman using her skill? Batman and Wonder Woman weren't even fighting in a straight out H2H combat. If anything it was stupid on Batman's part to try to use his bat grapple and batrang on her.

 

1.I didn't just say fighting skills. No where did I only mention fighting skills, I meant skills altogether.

2.Batman countered her blitzing and lasso, basically almost every move she threw at him.

3. They prove nothing because you don't want them to. She tried using her lasso and Batman countered it.

4. Batman wasn't trying to fight H2H, but Wonder Woman was and she was clearly being the aggressor.

5. He was trying to REASON with her.

[Guest Darxeth]

Batman doesn't have a sense or radar even remotely close to Daredevil. Daredevil's feats are just as impressive as Batman. You know Daredevil is held in high regard and is known as one of the best right? Daredevil is just as smart in battle. What many gadgets Batman has? The flashbang? That mostly blinds your victim so it's worthless. Smoke pellet? Worthess. How often you see Batman use tear gas? Not often. You want me to continue? What explosions is Batman gone do to hurt Daredevil? Oh and Daredevil has faster reflexes then Batman. Daredevil speed wise also is faster.

 

What the heck are you talking about? I never said Batman had a sense that compared to DDs?

 

haha! You think Flashbangs mostly blind victims? Read up more on flashbangs, they disorient their targets equilibrium, which is the main effect, the flash is just a bonus.

 

 

And an explosion to DD's face isn't going to hurt him? My mistake. I didn't know. /sarcasm.

 

Bats use sonar, which is similar in principle but uses sound waves instead of radio waves. Using the bat device on DD is an interesting idea. Lots of small creatures flying erratically would be a lot for his radar to handle. That much incoming data could be confusing. I don't remember seeing him ever have to deal with this sort of thing though.

 

Thanks for the info, Dinsdale. :]

 

 

As Dinsdale said, Batman could use his bat device to swarm the battlefield in bats, which would disrupt DD's focus.

[Guest bigballerju]

3. They prove nothing because you don't want them to. She tried using her lasso and Batman countered it.

 

Exactly they prove nothing. What was the point of showing those scans for? This debate is about whether Batman is more skilled then Wonder Woman which you claimed in previous posts multiple times and have not shown. You even stated Batman has bested her multiple times.

 

 

What the heck are you talking about? I never said Batman had a sense that compared to DDs?

 

haha! You think Flashbangs mostly blind victims? Read up more on flashbangs, they disorient their targets equilibrium, which is the main effect, the flash is just a bonus.

 

 

And an explosion to DD's face isn't going to hurt him? My mistake. I didn't know. /sarcasm.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, Dinsdale. :]

 

 

As Dinsdale said, Batman could use his bat device to swarm the battlefield in bats, which would disrupt DD's focus.

 

One I never said you stated Batman had a sense comparable to Daredevil. You asked does Batman have a sense or radar of his own. I simply stated he doesn't have one like Daredevil or close.

 

Batman doesn't have a flashbang on him because he has his standard gear. Batman's standard gear doesn't include that. Also why would Batman use his sonar here? In a fight like this against multiple highly skilled opponents when does Batman use his sonar? Almost never.

 

Also I haven't heard one explanation as to how Batman would figure out Daredevil's abilities. All I have heard is he is Batman so he would figure it out type of explanations which is wrong.

[Guest Darxeth]

I never asked if Batman had radar sense. I asked if bats had radar sense.

 

I've already stated how he would figure out DD has powers.

If DD can find Batman, Batman would assume he's superhuman. Because finding Batman is damn near impossible.

 

And Batman woukd use his bats to distract his opponents, sense that is their purpose anyway. But ok.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Good debate Bigballerju.

[The Void]

Exactly they prove nothing. What was the point of showing those scans for? This debate is about whether Batman is more skilled then Wonder Woman which you claimed in previous posts multiple times and have not shown. You even stated Batman has bested her multiple times.

 

Batman countered her blitz and her lasso while trying to reason with her, since she was being the aggressor. He even stated that she was PREDICTABLE...Meaning Batman thinks little of her skills. I don't know how far I can go.

[Guest bigballerju]

I never asked if Batman had radar sense. I asked if bats had radar sense.

 

I've already stated how he would figure out DD has powers.

If DD can find Batman, Batman would assume he's superhuman. Because finding Batman is damn near impossible.

 

And Batman woukd use his bats to distract his opponents, sense that is their purpose anyway. But ok.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Good debate Bigballerju.

 

That's fine. Agree to disagree it is.

 

 

Batman countered her blitz and her lasso while trying to reason with her, since she was being the aggressor. He even stated that she was PREDICTABLE...Meaning Batman thinks little of her skills. I don't know how far I can go.

 

Hmm we don't know how fast she was going. Wonder Woman could have been holding back both speed and skill wise because she was trying to convince Batman too. Batman doesn't think little of her skills. Batman has stated how great she is. Batman just doesn't like her point of view on things and how she handles things sometimes. Wonder Woman has fought gods and more who are highly skilled warriors themselves. Wonder Woman could have crushed Batman in those scans if she went faster and didn't hold back. Notice at the end of those scans how easily Wonder Woman turned the tide around.

[Guest sirmethos]

By Batman's own words, Wonder Woman is "the best melee fighter in the world".

[Guest force_echo]

Is DD immune to being hurt by explosions? Didn't think so.

 

Also, Bats use a sense similar to radar (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Batman has shown more impressive feats than DD regarding martial arts.

 

He's been trained by more "Sticks" and is held in higher regard in his universe than DD is in his, again regarding martial arts.

 

He's stronger than DD is and is def. Smarter when it comes to fighting as well.

He can outsmart DD and beat him senseless unarmed.

 

Besides, as I've said before, Batman has a lot of gadgets that could disrupt DD awareness.

Tear gas, for example, would screw DD up as well, since I don't think he's trained to fight against it. (again, correct me if I'm wrong)

Oh right, I forgot. Daredevil's never had to deal with explosives before. That's scary.

 

Like what? Name a feat, Daredevil's topped it. He's literally beaten or stalemated every single top H2H fighter in the Marvel Universe that he's had a chance to fight, at one point or another. Seriously, name it. Taskmaster? Wolverine? Sabertooth? Black Panther? Captain America? Iron Fist?

 

Daredevil's a pretty damn strategist and tactician too, able to go up against superhuman opponents using his smarts, just like Batman. Difference is, he doesn't have a utility belt.

 

Tear Gas would definitely not do anything to Daredevil. First of all, he has trained against it. Second of all, he can smell it in parts per million, the second Batman pulls it out, he knows what it is. Also, he can hold his breath for a ridiculously long time due to his chi training. The effects on his eyes are negligible for obvious reasons.

 

As for the explosions, Daredevil can selectively block out any sound. That's why he doesn't break down everytime someone shoots a gun. Seriously, a gun is pretty damn loud to the normal human ear, and Daredevil can easily hear heartbeats through soundproof walls, a single gunshot should be enough to absolutely destroy him, right? No. He's dealt with explosions and gunshots before, and he hasn't been incapacitated.

[Guest Darxeth]

DD is not as intelligent or as cunning as Batman.

Hell, Batman has outsmarted/tricked/fooled Darkseid, I'm sure he can do the same to DD.

 

Facing average joes that use explosive weapons does not equate to Batman using explosions.

Seriously, DD has never faced an opponent as skilled as Batman that uses explosions. (to my knowledge)

 

and the sound of the explosion isn't what is going to hurt DD, it'll be the force of the explosion.

 

IIRC DD has been defeated by Bullseye in h2h (correct me if I'm wrong)

if bullseye can defeat him at h2h, Batman can.

 

The utility belt is arguably the reason why Batman wins, as I stated before.

 

And Batman has held his own against DC's top martial artists too, IIRC.

 

When the justice league need a master strategist, they rely on Batman.

Hell, a few teams that don't even have Batman listed as member ask him for held from time to time.

 

In marvel, when have the avengers relied on DD to handle any of their problems?

Or any team for that matter? Recently, that is.

 

[Guest force_echo]

DD is not as intelligent or as cunning as Batman.

Hell, Batman has outsmarted/tricked/fooled Darkseid, I'm sure he can do the same to DD.

 

Facing average joes that use explosive weapons does not equate to Batman using explosions.

Seriously, DD has never faced an opponent as skilled as Batman that uses explosions. (to my knowledge)

 

and the sound of the explosion isn't what is going to hurt DD, it'll be the force of the explosion.

 

IIRC DD has been defeated by Bullseye in h2h (correct me if I'm wrong)

if bullseye can defeat him at h2h, Batman can.

 

The utility belt is arguably the reason why Batman wins, as I stated before.

 

And Batman has held his own against DC's top martial artists too, IIRC.

 

When the justice league need a master strategist, they rely on Batman.

Hell, a few teams that don't even have Batman listed as member ask him for held from time to time.

 

In marvel, when have the avengers relied on DD to handle any of their problems?

Or any team for that matter? Recently, that is.

He didn't "outsmart" darkseid by any means. Seid didn't call him on a bluff because of a generalization he made about humans in general. That is not the same thing in any way, shape or form, I'm sick and tired of people using that feat out of context like it's something impressive. If average joe were in Batman's position at that point in time, he could have easily done the same.

 

Lol. Crossbones. Bullseye. Taskmaster. Deadpool. Should I go on?

 

Bullseye has never directly defeated Daredevil solely via H2h unless Daredevil was incapacited in some way. And even if he has, for every hit Bullseye got on Daredevil, there's like 3 fights where DD beats Bullseye down. I could use the same argument fairly easily. If The Reaper (a normal dude with a scythe) can beat Batman, I'm pretty sure Daredevil could. The way most of their fights go is that Bullseye goes long range and Daredevil tries to close the distance.

 

Like who? You're not giving me any fighting feats to work with here.

 

Strategy is different than tactics. Batman's strategizing skills are going to be useless in this fight.

 

That's kind of an irrelevant point. Daredevil is solo, he doesn't like working with others.

[Guest sirmethos]

Batman is kinda at a disadvantage in this fight.

 

This scenario, is exactly the kind of fight where Batman generally loses, then comes back later, after doing some prep and planning, and wins the rematch.

 

 

Batman's big thing is strategy, pre-planning. When Batman is prepared, he is one of the most dangerous people on the planet.

 

But strategy is useless in this particular scenario. And while Batman is a superb strategist, he is just an above average tactician. Someone like Nightwing, would have a much better chance than Batman here, since Nightwing's specialty is tactics and improvisation, which is exactly what is needed in this fight. Likewise, Daredevil tends to be better at tactics and improvisation.

 

That said, Batman is the more skilled martial artist of the two, as well as more experienced. But Batman has lost to lesser opponents on several occasions, in "random" encounters, where his strategic skills are useless.

 

In this particular fight, if it was simply Daredevil vs. Batman, the odds would be in favor of Daredevil.

[Guest Darxeth]

You can call it what you want, but Batman was bluffing and Darkseid fell for it.

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

 

I'm on my phone right now so I can't post scans of Batman besting DC's best martial artists at the moment, but I may post some later.

 

DD was in the Xmen vs. Avengers, and he barely made an impact.

When shit goes down in DC, Batman is almost always a key player.

 

I see no point in debating. Neither one of us is going to concede to the other's argument.

 

 

 

[Guest Darxeth]

Ah Methos, welcome. Heh.

 

I dunno. If Batman plays his cards right (which he generally does) he'll win.

 

He's shown gifted improvising skills and tactics recently against the court of owls (particularly when he was first attacked by Dick Grayson's ancestor)

 

[Guest Darxeth]

Actually, I take back what I said in my last post regarding the court of owls and that there is no point in debating.

 

Batman only survived the attack by Dick Grayson's ancestor because of his prior knowledge of his surroundings and not because of his tactical prowess, which could be chalked up to pre-planning in a sense.

 

I concede. Batman is at a disadvantage. DD probably has the best shot at taking it.

[xLEGACYx]

By Batman's own words, Wonder Woman is "the best melee fighter in the world".

a melee fighter can be considered a brawler also. Doesn't mean she is very skilled (which she is).