Batman vs Marvel Heroes

[The Void]

Quicksilver needs a huge push by Marvel...For decades people saw him as the slowest speedster, but he is improving.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Did you ignore my post or what?

 

Punisher just shot from FOUR miles away, and it was a perfect shot to the head.

 

Really, try again.

Sorry, didn't see it in time. But, that could be called PIS. It's simply absurd. Also, Norman Osborne was standing still, as Batman certainly wouldn't be.

[The Void]

Sorry, didn't see it in time. But, that could be called PIS. It's simply absurd. Also, Norman Osborne was standing still, as Batman certainly wouldn't be.

 

How is it PIS?

[Guest thanosisawesome]

How is it PIS?

 

Because there's no goddamn way that a human being could possible make a 4 mile shot. Snipers can't even shoot that far. It's even more crazy than bullet dodging. It's less plausible than aliens with superpowers!

[The Void]

Because there's no goddamn way that a human being could possible make a 4 mile shot. Snipers can't even shoot that far. It's even more crazy than bullet dodging. It's less plausible than aliens with superpowers!

 

IIRC Punisher had a high powered Skrull rifle(which I think he still does have). And please do not make me bring up Batman's PIS feats...

[The Void]

Also Nova...I think the scan you posted with Quicksilver moving at radio waves is WIS. I did more research and yes Radio waves do move as fast as light. Yet when Pietro was supposedly moving faster than radio waves it took him 92 seconds to cover the globe. Light does not need 92 seconds to cover the globe.

 

But QS still solo's this.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Those were different instances iirc.

[The Void]

Those were different instances iirc.

 

I'm pretty sure those were in the same comic.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

It was the same run of Mighty Avengers, all right. I just don't know if those scans are from the same issue.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Even then. A sniper shot likely wouldn't pierce Batman's armor,

 

It depends on the armor and the rifle. Sniper rifles tend to be much more powerful than handguns, submachine guns or even military assault rifles. I've seen footage of a .50 caliber sniper rifle punching through a Kevlar vest like it was made of Kleenex.

 

and it's almost impossible to make a sniper shot from miles away.

 

Actually, it's completely impossible. The range on the best sniper guns is just over a mile.

 

 

Also (I'll find the scan if necessary) Batman has dodged sniper fire before.

 

It's possible to do that. The Barrett M-82 fires a round at a muzzle velocity of slightly under 1000 yards / second. If Batman knew exactly when and where the shot was coming from and was far enough away, he could. The problem isn't reflexes, it's spotting the sniper and seeing the muzzle flash. The bullet is supersonic so you won't hear anything until after it hits you.

 

So, while Batman has dodged sniper fire, that's no guarantee he will be able to dodge it again.

 

But there's also no guarantee that Castle would be able to lure Batman into a position where could take a shot at him. When someone is that stealthy the sniper has a real challenge.

 

So no, Castle wouldn't win on his own terms. Batman is to smart, too strong, and too skilled for Punisher. But obviously in this specific scenario, Batman loses to the team.

 

I'd bet on Batman against Punisher, but it's by no means an automatic win.

[C.T.]

Except he used an alien sniper rifle.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

"I just ran half across the globe in 92 seconds."

 

That's approximately 12,000 miles in 92 seconds, which would be a little better than 130 miles a second or about Mach 615. It is only a little less than 1% (0.7% to be exact) of the speed of radio waves.

[Guest sirmethos]

Ok, there's just so much blatant stupidity in this thread now, that I feel a need to respond.

 

"I don't think 1 hours of prep is enough and Batman for the most part is physically outmatched here. He loses."

 

The OP says he already knows their "names, powers, etc". The difficult, and most time consuming, part of prep. has already been done. All he has to do in that one hour, is put together a strategy to take them down.

 

Also, what does Batman being physically outmatched, have to do with whether he wins or loses? It's not like he's taking them on in close-quarter combat.

 

 

"Pretty much what everybody else said. Funny while Batman is busy trying not to get pounded to death by Shehulk or Thing I could see Punisher being the one to kill him in the end by mistake or simply because he doesn't give a f**k."

 

Or, while Tim is busy incapacitating the 'less dangerous' members, like She-Hulk, using various gadgets from the Batcave, as well as the Batmobile, Batman is using the Insider Suit to sneak up on Punisher, and take him out before he becomes a real threat. Punisher is one of the 2-3 biggest threats on the team, chances are that he would be one of Batman's first targets.

 

 

"One hour simply isn't enough time to prepare. I could see him evading the heroes for a while and taking several down, but he would need more prep time for say War Machine."

 

Not necessarily. Phantom Zone Projector.

 

 

"I was never impressed by the Insider Suit. It can mimic certain JLA abilities, yeah, but I don't think it ever showed that it could actually perform on the level of Superman and the like. Batman gets stomped badly in my opinion."

 

The Insider Suit was never meant to put him anywhere near the level of Superman.

 

 

"Batman isn't taking down that team with a hour of prep. It has powerhouses like Shehulk, geniuses like Beast, and more. It has a all around team that has the whole package."

 

Batman knows who, and what, he's dealing with. They don't.

 

Batman has the advantage of knowing the area, as well as being able to make a strategy, specifically designed with the members of the team, and their capabilities, in mind.

 

The OP doesn't mention anything about the team knowing that he's prepared for them(i.e. that he knows they're coming), so he might have the element of surprise as well.

 

The home field advantage, is more than simply knowing the terrain. He also knows which villains are active, and which general areas they are located in. Which would make for some very effective distractions.

 

 

"Batman isn't sneaking up and attacking most of the heroes on the Marvel team. There either too experienced for that or have abilities or suits (War Machine) that make it pointless to try to do that."

 

Batman is capable of sneaking up on people with super-humans senses, who have experience dealing with Batman. He also(as mentioned) has the advantage of knowing the terrain, which just makes it easier for him to "stealth" around.

 

 

"Batman doesn't have many advantages."

 

Not true.

 

 

"Compared to Batman? Yes he is. I don't really feel like this should turn into a Batman vs Punisher thread. But even if you don't think he's a chump, at least admit that Batman would defeat him."

 

No, he really isn't.

 

Between Batman and Punisher, Batman has the advantage in technology, intelligence and close combat skill. While Punisher has the advantage in mindset, ranged combat, and military spec. ops. training.

 

Punisher is close, if not equal, to Batman as a strategist and tactician.

 

Who would win, of those two, depends on the scenario. In close combat, Batman wins easily. In most other scenarios(without outside influences), Punisher would win.

 

 

"On Castles terms, Batman would still thrash him. Batman is superior in virtually every aspect. But just wondering, what do you mean by "on Castles terms?""

 

No, he really isn't.

 

 

"A sniper shot likely wouldn't pierce Batman's armor,"

 

Yes, it would.

 

Batman's armor is made of Kevlar and a small percentage of titanium. Most high-end snipers(like the .50 Cal. Barrett) would rip right through the armor.

 

Likewise, armor piercing bullets of a good caliber, would rip right through it.

 

 

"and it's almost impossible to make a sniper shot from miles away."

 

Not quite.

 

 

"When Batman does it it's PIS but when Punisher does it he's a badass. Batman can take on Superman and the Justice League with prep, and in Batman Hush improvised and was able to shut down Superman. Granted, he knows Superman, but still."

 

Batman has never defeated Superman.

 

 

"Sorry but yes

 

batfreezesniper1.jpg

 

batfreezesniper2.jpg "

 

If you actually look at where Batman is located(before the shot), and where the shot actually hits, you'll notice that the shot was aimed at Freeze, just above Batman's shoulder.

 

If you look at the text, you will also notice Batman commenting that the bullet is too fast for him. Once the shot was actually fired, Batman couldn't do anything to prevent it from hitting it's target.

 

He doesn't hear the shot, he hears the Sniper(shooter).

 

He wouldn't be able to hear the shot either way, since the bullet moves faster than sound. If the shot had been aimed at Batman, he would be dead.

 

 

 

 

"A sniper rifle can be heard from approx. 2 miles away."

 

What does that have to do with anything?

 

By the time you hear the shot, it's too late to do anything, let alone dodge.

 

There's a saying "if you hear the shot, it wasn't aimed at you." That's because the bullet moves considerably faster than sound, and by the time you hear the shot, the bullet has already hit.

 

 

"And that range is beyond ridiculously far if you are expecting Punisher to hit Batman in the mouth."

 

It is ridiculously far, yes. But Punisher has managed more difficult shots in the past.

 

 

"So, Batman could doge the shot."

 

No, he really couldn't.

 

 

"Sorry, didn't see it in time. But, that could be called PIS. It's simply absurd."

 

No, it's not PIS. Punisher has consistently shown that level of skill and accuracy. It would be absurd in the real world, but we are talking about comics here.

 

 

 

"Because there's no goddamn way that a human being could possible make a 4 mile shot. Snipers can't even shoot that far. It's even more crazy than bullet dodging. It's less plausible than aliens with superpowers!"

 

And now you're just sounding like a fanboy that has run out of arguments.

 

 

 

"Actually, it's completely impossible. The range on the best sniper guns is just over a mile."

 

1. Punisher uses an alien rifle. And tends to use custom made weaponry(he customizes a lot of his weapons himself).

 

2. The Barrett M82, that you linked to, is not the sniper rifle with the longest range. The CheyTac Intervention has a considerably longer effective range. The record for the longest range kill-shot is also beyond that(roughly 1.8 miles).

 

3. Punisher has been shown taking shots from considerably beyond a mile. Again, this is comics, not the real world.

 

 

According to statements from Wolverine, Nick Fury, Maverick, and Black Widow, Punisher is pretty much the best sniper on the planet.

 

Statements like "Five headshots in one heartbeat, only one man could have done that.", "Castle is the only one who could have performed a shot like that."

 

 

 

It's by no means a guaranteed victory for Batman, but people are selling him extremely short.

[The Void]

No one is selling Batman short. He still loses.

 

 

With only one hour of prep how is he going to develop a strategy for all them?

[Guest bigballerju]

No one hour of prep isn't enough for Batman and Tim Drake to beat all of them. They aren't gone be able to create any sort of major equipment and weapon in a one hour. What exactly does Tim Drake have that can take out someone like Shehulk in that batcave? Now your selling members like Shehulk and Thing short if you think Tim Drake could put them down by himself. I'm not jumping on the Batman could take them down just because he has prep and people seem to think with prep Batman is unbeatable.

[Guest force_echo]

Punisher is a chump? He's probably the one who puts a bullet through Batman's skull in the end. In my opinion, the Punisher is a smarter tactician than Batman. It's close though.

[Guest sirmethos]

With only one hour of prep how is he going to develop a strategy for all them?

 

If I can do it in 5-10 minutes, I'm fairly sure that Batman can do it in an hour. Especially if he simply assigns some of the less dangerous members to Tim, who is a master strategist in his own right.

 

 

No one hour of prep isn't enough for Batman and Tim Drake to beat all of them. They aren't gone be able to create any sort of major equipment and weapon in a one hour. What exactly does Tim Drake have that can take out someone like Shehulk in that batcave? Now your selling members like Shehulk and Thing short if you think Tim Drake could put them down by himself. I'm not jumping on the Batman could take them down just because he has prep and people seem to think with prep Batman is unbeatable.

 

They don't need to create anything new, they also have things in the Batcave, that could be used to defeat all of the members individually.

 

Freeze Gun from Mr. Freeze(would work against the majority of them, if only to slow them down.

 

The Batmobile, which can be remotely controlled and targeted, is armed with several things that would be effective against most of them.

 

Phantom Zone Projector, would effectively take one of them out of the game(or more, if they are lured into a small area).

 

Several of them, the Thing included, are vulnerable to gas. Likewise with electricity.

 

I could keep going for a while.

 

 

I'm not selling anyone short. And I have never claimed that Batman is unbeatable(with or without prep). Nor have I said that he definitely wins. But not thinking that Batman is unbeatable with prep, does not mean that you have to, or should, underestimate just how effective, and dangerous, he actually is, especially when he is prepared, and on his home turf.

[Guest bigballerju]

.

If I can do it in 5-10 minutes, I'm fairly sure that Batman can do it in an hour. Especially if he simply assigns some of the less dangerous members to Tim, who is a master strategist in his own right.

 

 

 

 

They don't need to create anything new, they also have things in the Batcave, that could be used to defeat all of the members individually.

 

Freeze Gun from Mr. Freeze(would work against the majority of them, if only to slow them down.

 

The Batmobile, which can be remotely controlled and targeted, is armed with several things that would be effective against most of them.

 

Phantom Zone Projector, would effectively take one of them out of the game(or more, if they are lured into a small area).

 

Several of them, the Thing included, are vulnerable to gas. Likewise with electricity.

 

I could keep going for a while.

 

 

I'm not selling anyone short. And I have never claimed that Batman is unbeatable(with or without prep). Nor have I said that he definitely wins. But not thinking that Batman is unbeatable with prep, does not mean that you have to, or should, underestimate just how effective, and dangerous, he actually is, especially when he is prepared, and on his home turf.

 

Okay fair points Methos. I'm not too sure he would use the phantom zone projector unless they were a serious evil threat and he needed it as a last resort.

 

Also Punisher I would add for others on here doubting how skilled he is need to read the latest Punisher War Zone miniseries where he takes on the Avengers. Pretty much shows you with prep Punisher could fight the Avengers if he needed too and put them down with prep. The only ones who would be a problem and he wouldn't be able to beat are guys like Thor.

[Guest force_echo]

Does Batman even have a Phantom Zone Projector? I thought it was in Superman's fortress of solitude, unless there's more than one I don't know about.

[Indolent]

Doesn't matter, the bullet would hit the target before said target would even hear the sniper's shot. The bullet literally travels that fast, so the 2 miles thing is irrelevant since Batman is the target, therefore he wouldn't even hear it regardless. e.e

 

Edit: Dammit, Methos ninja'd me in that large post... too lazy to read -.-

[Guest tomisntblue]

Batman's objective is to get rid of the heroes, by either taking them down or otherwise removing them from the city.

Also, remember, Batman doesn't need to kill all the heroes, just KO them and/or remove them from the city.

Also, again, he doesn't need to prepare a whole battle plan or huge device, he just needs to figure out how to use the many advantages he has to win.

 

Batman leaves the city. They follow. Batman wins.

[C.T.]

Batman leaves the city. Only Quicksilver follows. FTL KO?

[Guest El Wookiee]

ok, let me put it this way, if Batman really and truly could win this battle, why ISN'T Gotham City the safest city on the planet?

[Guest skadoosh]

Yes they are experienced as a team. Everybody on that team has been on the same Avenger team through the years. Hell even Punisher teamed with Cap's Avengers during Civil War.

 

Batman isn't sneaking up and attacking most of the heroes on the Marvel team. There either too experienced for that or have abilities or suits (War Machine) that make it pointless to try to do that.

 

Batman doesn't have many advantages.

 

They are not an experienced team. Some of them may have worked together over the years, but they are not experienced as a team. The Avengers are an experienced team. What i've listed above is a group of heroes who know each other. Batman could very definitely sneak up on most, if not all, of the heroes mentioned. It's what he'd do once he's snuck up on them that's the big question. He has many advantages, big ones, too, like knowing the city perfectly, having a whole cave of gear and gadgets, knowing what his enemies are capable of, etc.

 

After a bit more thought, I could see Batman winning this. Not saying he is, but he could. I don't see this collection of heroes combing the city in a big group, so Batman would pick them off. A couple ideas.

 

-Wearing the Insider Suit, I believe that Batman and Tim could take her down. Maybe using gas or tranqs.

-Beast is a genius, but again, if Batman takes him alone with all his gadgets and the Insider Suit, Batman wins.

-This is where things get difficult. Batman has dealt with speedsters before, but unless he can neutralize Quicksilver with a sneak attack, he'll get handled.

But if he does get the drop, he could knock out or incapacitate Quicksilver, using his fists or sonics.

-She-Hulk I don't know that much about. I don't know if this works, but couldn't he simply outmaneuver and gas her?

-Visions a robot, so Batman might try some sort of virus (a bit of a stretch)

-The Punishers a chump, don't think this needs explanation.

-The Thing would be tough (see:near impossible) But, Batman might again try knockout gas, or some sort of hardening foam.

-A virus for War Machine to maybe hijack his armor, but again a bit of a stretch

-Black Widow could probably be ambushed and dropped.

-As for Captain America and the soldiers, I don't know. I don't see Batman destroying or knocking out a 100 soldiers and a couple tanks.

 

Unfortunately, this discounts possible groups of heroes, and many of these methods are far from certain, especially with only an hour of prep. But Batman has more a chance than I previously thought.

 

Good points. I'm glad to people looking further into all the resources Batman has and what he could do with them. Batman is easily capable of coming up with sophisticated computer viruses, but they may not be sophisticated enough to take out War Machine and Vision. However, Batman has a lot of EMPs. Tanks can be blown up, and Batman has explosives, or he could just KO-gas the whole lot, superheroes and all. However, some of them are fast enough to avoid gas, and it simply wouldn't work on a few of them.

 

is this one at a time or all at once.

 

Essentially, however Batman wants to do it, but the heroes may not split up or stick together, so it will go down however you guys think it would.

 

snip

 

I appreciate the points you've made. Again, i'm glad people are looking at this properly, from both sides, at what everyone involved can do.

 

FTL KO?

 

I've never known Quicksilver to be faster than light, or even close to that speed. Also, Batman will certainly be wearing one of his more advanced and durable armours, so i highly doubt a single punch will take him down. At least, not a punch from someone who isn't a physical powerhouse.

[Guest skadoosh]

Batman leaves the city. They follow. Batman wins.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say that doesn't count as a win for Batman. I imagined this as a fight o the death/KO, the latter being more likely as most, if not all, of the combatants involved are pretty much against killing.

 

So, Batman must knock the buggers out and then remove them, or the other way around, whatever you're feeling.