The Batman Vs. The Punisher. Winner Takes All!

[corvette1710]

In one of the scans Thanosisawesome posted, Batman notes that he can throw his batarangs at about 100 mph.

 

To address one of your points.

[C.T.]

For the record, while Punisher was already bleeding out from a wound to his kidney, he took this hit from Sentry and was making a full retreat moments later, only falling into unconsciousness a pretty far ways away.

 

[corvette1710]

...That's not through a building, that's through a window.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

My hearing? No. But I can't bench 1000 lbs either. And if you actually look at the scan I posted, Batman is hunched over Wrath. Next, bullets come through wall and Batman is leaping backwards out of their path. So no, you're wrong.

 

Anyone's hearing, any animal, any organism, any detection equipment that ever existed and ever will, if the bullet literally travels faster than the speed of sound it doesn't matter how good your hearing is. Batman could be Daredevil plus some, he still wouldn't hear the bullet coming. Yeah, because the bullets MISS, not because he dodged them. Look up Occam's Razor, I feel like I'm debating someone with little to no knowledge of basic logical principles.

 

The nine millimeter shells in said scan travel far slower than the speed of sound, actually. I feel like I'm debating someone who likes to think they are making the opponent look stupid, but aren't. Secondly, I showed multiple other scans where Batman dodged submachine gun fire and a point blank shot from a silenced pistol.

 

Range advantages are negated in tight spaces, not the other way around. Easier to get close. Secondly, Punisher won't shrug off a 100 mph batarang to the face, for sure. And while he was "shrugging off" the batarang, Batman would disarm him and take him down. Like this.

 

Prove that Batman throws it 100 mph. Also, criminals have gotten back up fairly quickly from batarangs, regular freaking criminals. The Punisher hardens himself by extreme physical conditioning, he's taken punches from f*cking Spider-Man and has gotten THROWN THROUGH BUILDINGS by Luke Cage and SENTRY to pick himself back up again with little to no delay. If you think a Batarang is going to do sh*t to him, put away your Batman themed cum rag and actually read a Punisher comic. Yeah, nice scans, but Punisher won't be reluctant to shoot because there's a fellow police officer standing behind Batman. How about you actually read your scans before posting them? And you called me a fanboy, lol.

 

Read the scan you prick, it clearly states that the batarang is thrown at 100mph. Where was the fellow police officer standing behind Batman.

 

Also, ranged advantages are never negated unless you're literally forced to stand within arm's reach of someone. Also, I'm pretty sure Punisher, havig done recon on the favelas, will choose an open, defensible position with traps laid in strategic locations. He's not going to be like "Let's walk down super tight allies and corners, because that's a GREAT idea!" He's a tactical genius, equal to, if not greater than, Batman.

 

Don't know how many times I have to say this, but Batman has prep too. Also he's not some shmuck who will wander into a trap.

 

Secondly, Batman has thermal imaging too. So, he can just as easily maneuver through the favela and hit Punisher with batarang, then move in for the KO. Here's Batman blocking bullets with his cape, and survives explosions.

 

Yeah, except The Punisher, like I've already said twice now if you actually read what I post, has anti-thermal equipment. Batman doesn't. Just because you state some vague situation doesn't count as proof of anything. Find me a single source anywhere that says he has anti-thermal tech in his suit, because I can't.

Tada.

Again, there are multiple sources, including Batman himself, that say that the armor is only resistant to small caliber weaponry. In your own scan Batman says he can't handle AP rounds, and I've already given sources where Batman is knocked on his ass by a lesser caliber. The Punisher is going to use .45 ACPs and up, with armor piercing, hell, even tracer, rounds. Batman's armor is not going to be able to stand up against Punisher's weaponry, that point isn't even debatable.

 

Yet he takes a point blank AK-47 shot to the cowl. He is more than capable of tumbling the bullets with his cape and then dodging the slowed shots or his armor soaks up the weakened shot.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

In one of the scans Thanosisawesome posted, Batman notes that he can throw his batarangs at about 100 mph.

 

I'm guessing that the writer of that issue took that from the fact that some major league pitchers can throw a baseball at about 100 mph.

 

It's not a good estimate. A baseball is not the same weight or shape and has very different throwing properties. I wasn't able to find a speed for boomerang (let alone batarang) throwing, but the TV series Deadliest Warrior did clock the speed of several other throwing weapons.

 

tomahawk - average of 30 mph

shuriken - average of 47.5 mph

chakram - average of 36 mph

 

There's a lot we'd need to know about the batarang to judge which weapon is the best comparison, but this should illustrate that it is much easier to throw a lightweight sphere, like a baseball, at high speeds than it is a shaped metal weapon. they said what they said, but I think a much more reasonable estimate would have been 50 mph.

[corvette1710]

I know it would have been more realistic were it slower, but you don't argue with Batman.

[Guest bigballerju]

To say that Batman could knock out any Punisher level being or above with a batrang is just stupid. Seriously this is why people get annoyed with the high popular characters in DC/Marvel. This debate is just about done like Hayes said since everyone is sticking to their choices.

[Guest force_echo]

The nine millimeter shells in said scan travel far slower than the speed of sound, actually. I feel like I'm debating someone who likes to think they are making the opponent look stupid, but aren't. Secondly, I showed multiple other scans where Batman dodged submachine gun fire and a point blank shot from a silenced pistol.

 

Oh yeah? Can you prove that? Because all 9mm rounds fire faster than the speed of sound. So what's more plausible? That Batman somehow has precognitive hearing that can hear into the future, and then has his synapses fire over 10 times the speed that they're biologically capable of doing, and that the police officers fired from left to right even when Batman ducked up to down on purpose, or that the police officers missed? Yeah, look up Occam's Razor. Actually, you've shown no scans where Batman dodges bullets, as I've already proven.

 

Read the scan you prick, it clearly states that the batarang is thrown at 100mph. Where was the fellow police officer standing behind Batman.

 

Are you serious? The police officers aren't shooting because they don't want to kill Hyland, as he EXPLICITLY says in the second to last panel, implying that if they were actually going to let off gun shots, Batman would be screwed.

 

Don't know how many times I have to say this, but Batman has prep too. Also he's not some shmuck who will wander into a trap.

 

Neither is Spider-Man. In fact, Spider-Man's thinking-on-the-fly is probably greater than Batman's, plus he has a precognitive sense, yet Punisher's nailed him on more than one ocassion (and no, I'm not "just" talking about the scan already posted). Also, even if he doesn't trigger the trap, he doesn't have to, even if he avoids it, the traps can be used to funnel him into certain locations. The main point was The Punisher is not stupid enough to be led into tight spaces.

 

Tada.

 

Fair point about thermal imaging. What about UV and X-Ray? I know for a fact he can be seen with X-Ray, because Superman did it in Superman/Batman. Also, his cape in that scan get's pierced BY A CACTUS. If Punisher actually shoots his cape, all of his liquid nitrogen will leak outside, making him vulnerable to thermal imaging again, rendering Batman detectable, again.

 

Yet he takes a point blank AK-47 shot to the cowl. He is more than capable of tumbling the bullets with his cape and then dodging the slowed shots or his armor soaks up the weakened shot.

 

The armored cowl doesn't matter. The Punisher's easily a skilled enough marksman to shoot him in the mouth. Also, the Punisher is not going to be shooting a single AK-47 round, Batman's armor cannot take sustained fire from armor piercing or high caliber ammo. Also, for every scan you post saying his armor can take bullets, there are multiple saying he can't take sustained fire. Batman himself, in a scan Hayes (or maybe you) posted said his armor couldn't take AP ammunition. Explain that please?

 

Here's would would happen if The Punisher shot him with armor piercing, high caliber ammunition.

 

[xLEGACYx]

 

 

in all fairness that is a really old suit. It has shown a lot of improvements since it was blue and grey.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

The nine millimeter shells in said scan travel far slower than the speed of sound, actually. I feel like I'm debating someone who likes to think they are making the opponent look stupid, but aren't. Secondly, I showed multiple other scans where Batman dodged submachine gun fire and a point blank shot from a silenced pistol.

 

Oh yeah? Can you prove that? Because all 9mm rounds fire faster than the speed of sound. So what's more plausible? That Batman somehow has precognitive hearing that can hear into the future, and then has his synapses fire over 10 times the speed that they're biologically capable of doing, and that the police officers fired from left to right even when Batman ducked up to down on purpose, or that the police officers missed? Yeah, look up Occam's Razor. Actually, you've shown no scans where Batman dodges bullets, as I've already proven.

 

Do your research. 9mm shells travel around 80 miles slower than the speed of sound. Secondly, for the love of god, it's a COMIC. It doesn't matter how fast a normal humans synapses can fire. This is a human in a comic book who benches a thousand pounds and punches through bazooka proof glass.

 

Read the scan you prick, it clearly states that the batarang is thrown at 100mph. Where was the fellow police officer standing behind Batman.

 

Are you serious? The police officers aren't shooting because they don't want to kill Hyland, as he EXPLICITLY says in the second to last panel, implying that if they were actually going to let off gun shots, Batman would be screwed.

 

Are we looking at the same scan? I'm talking about the one with Wrath.

 

Don't know how many times I have to say this, but Batman has prep too. Also he's not some shmuck who will wander into a trap.

 

Neither is Spider-Man. In fact, Spider-Man's thinking-on-the-fly is probably greater than Batman's, plus he has a precognitive sense, yet Punisher's nailed him on more than one ocassion (and no, I'm not "just" talking about the scan already posted). Also, even if he doesn't trigger the trap, he doesn't have to, even if he avoids it, the traps can be used to funnel him into certain locations. The main point was The Punisher is not stupid enough to be led into tight spaces.

 

Well, clearly he is since he dove after Punisher with zero forethought. He didn't try to at all survey the location. Secondly, I would really like to hear what you think Batman is doing with his week of prep, since you appear to think he is spending it praying he won't get shot.

 

Tada.

 

Fair point about thermal imaging. What about UV and X-Ray? I know for a fact he can be seen with X-Ray, because Superman did it in Superman/Batman. Also, his cape in that scan get's pierced BY A CACTUS. If Punisher actually shoots his cape, all of his liquid nitrogen will leak outside, making him vulnerable to thermal imaging again, rendering Batman detectable, again.

 

That was an old issue. It is safe to assume that his infared tech has advanced significantly since then. And since you badgered me about anti-infared, show me Punishers X-Ray vision.

 

Yet he takes a point blank AK-47 shot to the cowl. He is more than capable of tumbling the bullets with his cape and then dodging the slowed shots or his armor soaks up the weakened shot.

 

The armored cowl doesn't matter. The Punisher's easily a skilled enough marksman to shoot him in the mouth. Also, the Punisher is not going to be shooting a single AK-47 round, Batman's armor cannot take sustained fire from armor piercing or high caliber ammo. Also, for every scan you post saying his armor can take bullets, there are multiple saying he can't take sustained fire. Batman himself, in a scan Hayes (or maybe you) posted said his armor couldn't take AP ammunition. Explain that please?

 

If an AP round must pierce multiple layers (his cape then actual armor) it will lose a significant amount of power. Also, body armor is almost a non issue. Batman will not be standing in the open hoping his armor protects him. He will be behind cover, using stealth, avoiding long range combat.

 

Here's would would happen if The Punisher shot him with armor piercing, high caliber ammunition.

 

That's what would happen if Batman threw his hands in the air and didn't move or dodge, or go for cover.

[Guest force_echo]

Do your research. 9mm shells travel around 80 miles slower than the speed of sound. Secondly, for the love of god, it's a COMIC. It doesn't matter how fast a normal humans synapses can fire. This is a human in a comic book who benches a thousand pounds and punches through bazooka proof glass.

 

Lol. Do YOUR research. The muzzle velocity of a standard glock handgun is 375 m/s, which is what police usually use (if they don't use that, they use something faster). The speed of sound is 340.29 secongs. And yes, you can assume that Batman is actually superhuman despite the fact that he's never been stated to have superpowers and can actually break the laws of physics by hearing into the future, but which is a safer assumption? That, or the fact that the cops missed? Again, basic logic.

 

Are we looking at the same scan? I'm talking about the one with Wrath.

 

I'm talking about the scan you posted where Batman is beating up all of those cops in front of him, it explicitly says that the cops were afraid of shooting at him.

 

That was an old issue. It is safe to assume that his infared tech has advanced significantly since then. And since you badgered me about anti-infared, show me Punishers X-Ray vision.

 

It's not "safe to assume" anything, because you're still assuming. I doubt he's used the technology since then (unless you can provide me proof that he has, and its updated in the way you said it is, which I sincerely doubt), so upgrading it would probably be low on his list. Also, in the Punisher Annual Vol. 2 # 2, he uses X-ray vision to ascertain whether a bank vault was holding money or not in it without giving away his position by blowing the vault open. In Punisher: In The Blood, he uses X-Ray vision to see a pair of criminals through a wall, so he can ascertain their position. He then snipes them through the wall.

 

If an AP round must pierce multiple layers (his cape then actual armor) it will lose a significant amount of power. Also, body armor is almost a non issue. Batman will not be standing in the open hoping his armor protects him. He will be behind cover, using stealth, avoiding long range combat.

 

It will still kill him, as Batman himself points out. Also, like I've said before, it's not that simple. The Punisher can tear up cover with his guns/explosives pretty easily, has countermeasures for Batman's stealth, and you can't just "avoid" long range combat, especially if the Punisher sets himself up in an open area with plenty of sight lines, which he will.

 

Considering that Batman can't dodge bullets, that would happen regardless. Besides, if he can dodge bullets so easily, why didn't he in that scan? Why didn't he when facing Two-Face, or theJoker in the instances I've previously mentioned? How can he if he can't hear or see the bullet (which you've still not answered)?

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Do your research. 9mm shells travel around 80 miles slower than the speed of sound. Secondly, for the love of god, it's a COMIC. It doesn't matter how fast a normal humans synapses can fire. This is a human in a comic book who benches a thousand pounds and punches through bazooka proof glass.

 

Lol. Do YOUR research. The muzzle velocity of a standard glock handgun is 375 m/s, which is what police usually use (if they don't use that, they use something faster). The speed of sound is 340.29 secongs. And yes, you can assume that Batman is actually superhuman despite the fact that he's never been stated to have superpowers and can actually break the laws of physics by hearing into the future, but which is a safer assumption? That, or the fact that the cops missed? Again, basic logic.

 

All my sources put the speed of a 9mm shell at 681 mph, speed of sound at 761 mph. And again, it's a comic. Basic logic most cases doesn't apply in comics. That's why Batman leg presses over a ton. That's why an alien can gain the powers of flight from the sun. That's why there're martians with telepathy. And that's why Batman could dodge bullets, as I posted numerous scans of him doing.

 

Are we looking at the same scan? I'm talking about the one with Wrath.

 

I'm talking about the scan you posted where Batman is beating up all of those cops in front of him, it explicitly says that the cops were afraid of shooting at him.

 

I'm talking about the one where the police shoot through the wall, and if you look at Batman's position, he clearly moved out of the bullets path.

 

That was an old issue. It is safe to assume that his infared tech has advanced significantly since then. And since you badgered me about anti-infared, show me Punishers X-Ray vision.

 

It's not "safe to assume" anything, because you're still assuming. I doubt he's used the technology since then (unless you can provide me proof that he has, and its updated in the way you said it is, which I sincerely doubt), so upgrading it would probably be low on his list. Also, in the Punisher Annual Vol. 2 # 2, he uses X-ray vision to ascertain whether a bank vault was holding money or not in it without giving away his position by blowing the vault open. In Punisher: In The Blood, he uses X-Ray vision to see a pair of criminals through a wall, so he can ascertain their position. He then snipes them through the wall.

 

Here is Superman and Martian Manhunter stating that they cannot see Batman.

 

jlmidsummernightmare3-batmilitarystealth2.jpg

 

So there are obviously some precautions in place against x-ray vision. As for infrared, why would a billionare who constantly relies on stealth not have access to tech that would shield him?

 

If an AP round must pierce multiple layers (his cape then actual armor) it will lose a significant amount of power. Also, body armor is almost a non issue. Batman will not be standing in the open hoping his armor protects him. He will be behind cover, using stealth, avoiding long range combat.

 

It will still kill him, as Batman himself points out. Also, like I've said before, it's not that simple. The Punisher can tear up cover with his guns/explosives pretty easily, has countermeasures for Batman's stealth, and you can't just "avoid" long range combat, especially if the Punisher sets himself up in an open area with plenty of sight lines, which he will.

 

Yes, a direct headshot will kill him with an AP round. But he says nothing about it punching through multiple layers of armor.

 

Considering that Batman can't dodge bullets, that would happen regardless. Besides, if he can dodge bullets so easily, why didn't he in that scan? Why didn't he when facing Two-Face, or theJoker in the instances I've previously mentioned? How can he if he can't hear or see the bullet (which you've still not answered)?

 

Obviously he can do one of those things, because I have posted scans of him dodging bullets.

 

[Guest force_echo]

All my sources put the speed of a 9mm shell at 681 mph, speed of sound at 761 mph. And again, it's a comic. Basic logic most cases doesn't apply in comics. That's why Batman leg presses over a ton. That's why an alien can gain the powers of flight from the sun. That's why there're martians with telepathy. And that's why Batman could dodge bullets, as I posted numerous scans of him doing.

 

Glock- Muzzle Velocity = 375 m/s, 9x19mm Parabellum. Do better research.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a comic or not, you still go with the most reasonable explanation. If I wake up today with my neck sore, there are a couple of explanations. One explanation is that I was abducted by aliens in the middle of the night and had my tissues probed to extract DNA to destroy the human race. Another explanation is that I slept in bed wrong. You can't prove that I didn't get abducted by aliens, but guess which assumption you go with? You haven't shown a single scan of Batman dodging a bullet, no matter how many times you insist you have, despite not being able to prove so.

 

I'm talking about the one where the police shoot through the wall, and if you look at Batman's position, he clearly moved out of the bullets path.

 

Well, I was clearly talking about the other scan where he beats up a mob of other police officers. In that scan, the police are not willing to fire, Punisher will be. And nothing's "clear" about it, unless you want to make the claim that Batman has Spider-Sense.

 

Here is Superman and Martian Manhunter stating that they cannot see Batman

 

Still no proof that Superman's using X-Ray vision, or that that's because of Batman's suit. That building could have lead shielding or lead piping that prevents Supes from seeing Batman. Also, like I've said before, in Superman/Batman, Superman was able to discern Bruce's identity and identify him using X-Ray vision, so where's the defense?

 

Yes, a direct headshot will kill him with an AP round. But he says nothing about it punching through multiple layers of armor.

 

Now you're just making shit up. He said nothing about a headshot. In fact, the bullet struck him in the middle of the back, and he said that if it was armor piercing it would have killed him. Besides, even if it is only the head, the Punisher can get headshots easily anyway, and he can shoot Bruce in the face, you know, the part that isn't armored. He's shot someone's eyeball out over a mile away before.

 

Obviously he can do one of those things, because I have posted scans of him dodging bullets.

 

You haven't shown a single scan of a confirmed bullet dodge. How can he dodge something that's literally impossible to see and hear? How can Batman, in that scan with the police officers and Wrath, dodge a bullet when he's not facing the right direction. You could say that he has Spider-Sense and precognitive hearing, and that it's a comic book so the writer made up superpowers for Batman on the fly, and you can also say that the officers simply missed, which is fully supported by how their shots are going sideways as opposed to vertical. Sorry, but my explanation has evidence, and is leagues more reasonable. You lose.

 

Also, you still haven't explained why Batman hasn't dodged bullets in the cases where he was actually hit by them.

[xLEGACYx]

About your not being able to see or hear a bullet, I have to say huh?

 

While shooting you can actually see a hand gun round travel down range if paying attention. You can also most assuredly hear it whiz through the air ( not talking about the bang ) if at the other end.

[Guest force_echo]

You can't see a rifle round, even if the setup took place during the daytime (it doesn't). Even if you could (and actually react to it), Batman was literally facing the other way in the scan before the police officers shot at him. Even with slow velocity handgun rounds you have to be in a exactly precise angle with the sunlight and the firing path to see it (you wouldn't be able to see it if you were on the receiving end and looking at the gun).

 

And no, you can't hear the whizzing if you're hit, that's literally scientifically impossible, the bullet's going faster than the sound it creates. You can hear the whizzing if the bullet misses because then the sound when the bullet's already passed will reach your ears. But the Punisher doesn't miss.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

All my sources put the speed of a 9mm shell at 681 mph, speed of sound at 761 mph. And again, it's a comic. Basic logic most cases doesn't apply in comics. That's why Batman leg presses over a ton. That's why an alien can gain the powers of flight from the sun. That's why there're martians with telepathy. And that's why Batman could dodge bullets, as I posted numerous scans of him doing.

 

Glock- Muzzle Velocity = 375 m/s, 9x19mm Parabellum. Do better research.

 

Huh. Conceded. But I will address that in the next point.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a comic or not, you still go with the most reasonable explanation. If I wake up today with my neck sore, there are a couple of explanations. One explanation is that I was abducted by aliens in the middle of the night and had my tissues probed to extract DNA to destroy the human race. Another explanation is that I slept in bed wrong. You can't prove that I didn't get abducted by aliens, but guess which assumption you go with? You haven't shown a single scan of Batman dodging a bullet, no matter how many times you insist you have, despite not being able to prove so.

 

I have shown multiple scans of Batman dodging bullets, such as the one below. And if I lived in the DC Universe, I would seriously consider the former cause of next sores.

 

I'm talking about the one where the police shoot through the wall, and if you look at Batman's position, he clearly moved out of the bullets path.

 

Well, I was clearly talking about the other scan where he beats up a mob of other police officers. In that scan, the police are not willing to fire, Punisher will be. And nothing's "clear" about it, unless you want to make the claim that Batman has Spider-Sense.

 

Well, then how do you explain the other scan I posted? It doesn't count as proving me wrong to ignore the evidence I post proving me wrong.

 

Here is Superman and Martian Manhunter stating that they cannot see Batman

 

Still no proof that Superman's using X-Ray vision, or that that's because of Batman's suit. That building could have lead shielding or lead piping that prevents Supes from seeing Batman. Also, like I've said before, in Superman/Batman, Superman was able to discern Bruce's identity and identify him using X-Ray vision, so where's the defe

 

If Superman were looking for Batman, he wouldn't say "huh, to my naked eye without using powers, I can't see him. How impressive." Superman would be looking for him with x-rays, and he also wouldn't say Batman amazes him because he's happened to be standing behind a lead wall.

 

Yes, a direct headshot will kill him with an AP round. But he says nothing about it punching through multiple layers of armor.

 

Now you're just making shit up. He said nothing about a headshot. In fact, the bullet struck him in the middle of the back, and he said that if it was armor piercing it would have killed him. Besides, even if it is only the head, the Punisher can get headshots easily anyway, and he can shoot Bruce in the face, you know, the part that isn't armored.

 

But, no matter how much you deny it, I did post scans of Batman bullet timing.

 

He's shot someone's eyeball out over a mile away before.

 

And you're saying that Batman's feats are impossible. For some reason, Punisher's feats are always valid, Batman's are not.

 

Obviously he can do one of those things, because I have posted scans of him dodging bullets.

 

You haven't shown a single scan of a confirmed bullet dodge. How can he dodge something that's literally impossible to see and hear? How can Batman, in that scan with the police officers and Wrath, dodge a bullet when he's not facing the right direction. You could say that he has Spider-Sense and precognitive hearing, and that it's a comic book so the writer made up superpowers for Batman on the fly, and you can also say that the officers simply missed, which is fully supported by how their shots are going sideways as opposed to vertical. Sorry, but my explanation has evidence, and is leagues more reasonable. You lose.

 

So Batman punching a bullet in the air, blocking machine gun fire with his arm, dodging a point blank pistol shot, leaping towards an elite Russian assassin with and AK-47 showing bullets moving through his previous location. This is going to sound ridiculous, but we are debating comics. It is not much of a stretch. Batman dodging bullets may not make sense to you, but I showed scans of it happening.

 

Also, you still haven't explained why Batman hasn't dodged bullets in the cases where he was actually hit by them.

 

Because then the story would be boring. Same reason Darkseid doesn't kill Superman.

 

[Guest force_echo]

I have shown multiple scans of Batman dodging bullets, such as the one below. And if I lived in the DC Universe, I would seriously consider the former cause of next sores.

 

Even if you lived in the DC Universe, the second assumption is the more reasonable and sound one to to make, which seems a fundamental concept you, for some reason, cannot comprehend.

 

Well, then how do you explain the other scan I posted? It doesn't count as proving me wrong to ignore the evidence I post proving me wrong.

 

I've already proved that scan wrong, namely that the only way you could make the case of Batman dodging the bullets is that he has spider-Sense or can see into the future, even if he does have the superhuman reflexes to dodge it.

 

If Superman were looking for Batman, he wouldn't say "huh, to my naked eye without using powers, I can't see him. How impressive." Superman would be looking for him with x-rays, and he also wouldn't say Batman amazes him because he's happened to be standing behind a lead wall.

 

Um, he might not have known about the lead. In Action Comics 514 he thought a villain was transparent to X-Rays, when in reality he was just hiding in a network of lead piping. In either case, you cannot prove that Superman was using his X-ray vision, or explain why Superman was able to detect him with x-rays in Superman/Batman. Stop speculating, you're standing on thin ice as it is.

 

But, no matter how much you deny it, I did post scans of Batman bullet timing.

 

Except that you didn't. Every single scan posted I've already addressed, and you've already speculated on. You haven't proven anything. I've already adressed the bullet which hit Batman's glove which you say he blocked (he obviously didn't). If there are any scans I haven't already addressed, then bring them up, until then, stop touting Batman's bullet-dodging abilities when you haven't proven shit. You haven't posted a single scan like the one I posted, which is clear evidence of bullet dodging because the bullet is fired before Wesley deflects it.

[Guest sirmethos]

As strange as it is for me to say it, it's great to see Force being the voice of reason.

 

@Force, I would "like" the majority of the posts you've made in this thread, but I'm kinda lazy at the moment. I'll try to get around to it at a later point. It kinda rare that we are in complete agreement, but in this case, it seems like we are

[Dark Spider-man]

Just curious, didn't Batman beat the JLA and he beat Darkseid? Not picking a side but I heard he did.

[Guest bigballerju]

Batman didn't beat Darkseid in a fight. He simply outsmarted him by rigging his planet to blow up if he didn't release Supergirl. Batman has beaten the JLA once though I can't remember how it played out at the moment. However Punisher has fought heavy hitters like Spiderman, Hulk, he took on the Avengers himself recently, and more. Both characters feats are very close to each other.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

I have shown multiple scans of Batman dodging bullets, such as the one below. And if I lived in the DC Universe, I would seriously consider the former cause of next sores.

 

Even if you lived in the DC Universe, the second assumption is the more reasonable and sound one to to make, which seems a fundamental concept you, for some reason, cannot comprehend.

 

Well, then how do you explain the other scan I posted? It doesn't count as proving me wrong to ignore the evidence I post proving me wrong.

 

I've already proved that scan wrong, namely that the only way you could make the case of Batman dodging the bullets is that he has spider-Sense or can see into the future, even if he does have the superhuman reflexes to dodge it.

 

But he doesn't have super strength, yet leg presses 2500 pounds. Comics are fundamentally illogical. In the DC universe, it isn't much of a stretch that Batman could dodge bullets, honestly.

 

If Superman were looking for Batman, he wouldn't say "huh, to my naked eye without using powers, I can't see him. How impressive." Superman would be looking for him with x-rays, and he also wouldn't say Batman amazes him because he's happened to be standing behind a lead wall.

 

Um, he might not have known about the lead. In Action Comics 514 he thought a villain was transparent to X-Rays, when in reality he was just hiding in a network of lead piping. In either case, you cannot prove that Superman was using his X-ray vision, or explain why Superman was able to detect him with x-rays in Superman/Batman. Stop speculating, you're standing on thin ice as it is.

 

That scan stands as good evidence to me. If Superman was looking at Batman, then states he can't see him, it is reasonable to believe that Batman is shielded against said x-rays.

 

But, no matter how much you deny it, I did post scans of Batman bullet timing.

 

Except that you didn't. Every single scan posted I've already addressed, and you've already speculated on. You haven't proven anything. I've already adressed the bullet which hit Batman's glove which you say he blocked (he obviously didn't). If there are any scans I haven't already addressed, then bring them up, until then, stop touting Batman's bullet-dodging abilities when you haven't proven shit. You haven't posted a single scan like the one I posted, which is clear evidence of bullet dodging because the bullet is fired before Wesley deflects it.

 

You mean like this one? Bullets fired, Batman ducks under said shot in next panel.

 

batbulletime3.jpg

 

[Guest bigballerju]

Thanos why don't you try showing scans of Batman dodging bullets from someone as highly skilled as Punisher? Don't show scans of stupid criminals not on Punisher's level firing at him. Oh and actually show bullet timing not aim dodging or anything else. Oh and Batman is not shielded against Superman's x-ray vision. Hence why Superman found out Bruce Wayne was Batman by looking through his mask Pre-Flashpoint. In the new 52 we saw that to be the case too when Superman x-rayed Batman's belt and mask in there first encounter. So enough of that.

 

Batman dodging bullets still means doesn't mean a thing when Punisher could shoot beings who faster then Batman speed and reflex wise.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Thanos why don't you try showing scans of Batman dodging bullets from someone as highly skilled as Punisher? Don't show scans of stupid criminals not on Punisher's level firing at him. Oh and actually show bullet timing not aim dodging or anything else. Oh and Batman is not shielded against Superman's x-ray vision. Hence why Superman found out Bruce Wayne was Batman by looking through his mask Pre-Flashpoint. In the new 52 we saw that to be the case too when Superman x-rayed Batman's belt and mask in there first encounter. So enough of that.

 

Batman dodging bullets still means doesn't mean a thing when Punisher could shoot beings who faster then Batman speed and reflex wise.

 

Um, how? Punisher's bullets don't fly faster than other peoples. Just his aim is better. And as for the last scan I posted, that was bullet dodging. One panel, thug shoots. Next, Batman ducks. That was bullet timing. And in Detective comics (801-810, one of those) Batman dodges a sniper bullet shot at him from behind.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

If Batman is able to have reflexes that are faster than humanly possible it only makes sense that Punisher should have bullets that are faster than it's possible for bullets to be.

 

We can do this realistically, or we can say it's a comic book and realism doesn't matter. The thing that's not fair or logical is to say that one character is limited by what is realistic and the other is not.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

If Batman is able to have reflexes that are faster than humanly possible it only makes sense that Punisher should have bullets that are faster than it's possible for bullets to be.

 

We can do this realistically, or we can say it's a comic book and realism doesn't matter. The thing that's not fair or logical is to say that one character is limited by what is realistic and the other is not.

 

True. But if I prove that Batman can dodge bullets as I did, I believe that one must prove that Punisher shoots bullets faster than normal bullets.