The Batman Vs. The Punisher. Winner Takes All!

[treacherous]

Everybody needs a Bat tank.

 

It’s not out of the realm of believability. Vehicles are a part of his arsenal. That’s one of his special attacks on the new Justice League fighting game. He drives the Batmobile through you.

 

Maybe not a tank, but he's going to have some sort of vehicle there, no doubt.

[C.T.]

Agreed.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Some scans of the spider-sense...

Spidey isn't in actual danger here. The spider-sense is warning him about a potentially dangerous person.

 

Same deal here. There is no immediate danger, the sense is giving him a heads up about someone who is only potentially dangerous.

 

The Avengers are dealing with something that's dangerous to the whole world. While the danger appears to be imminent, it's not at all immediate. It is many seconds, and probably many minutes away, yet the sense registers it.

 

Peter and Gwen at a political fundraiser. The danger he's reacting to here is the fact that the roof is about to collapse. It's a dangerous situation but nothing dangerous has started to happen yet. The sense actually gives him enough time to 1) make an excuse to Gwen, 2) slip out of the crowded room, 3) scale the wall and be in position before the collapse, and 4) use his webbing to reinforce the ceiling to prevent the collapse. The passage of time is not clear but it's probably several minutes.

 

The sense is warning him about the gas, but the gas isn't shooting at him. He'll die if he rushes into it but he's not rushing anywhere at the moment, he's just standing there. The sense is warning him about a situation that's only potentially dangerous.

 

Maybe there is a 0.1 second warning for certain types of threats, like someone shooting at Spidey or throwing something at him, but that's clearly not the only way it works. It is triggered by both actual and potential dangers. It is triggered by people who are attacking and by people who aren't attacking but might under certain circumstances. It reacts both to actual incoming danger and to potentially dangerous situations. The amount of lead time the sense gives Spider-man apparently varies with the nature of the threat. It may be a fraction of a second for something like a bullet or several minutes for something like a collapsing roof.

 

Based on this, it makes sense that the spider-sense would have warned Spidey of the landmine trap before he fell into it. The technicality you guys mention that would keep it from warning Spidey of a trap like this until after the trap is sprung, is not an accurate reflection of how this power works.

[C.T.]

Actually it is, I can post scans showing it clearly does function like that which just goes to show Spider Man's powers between writers are inconsistent.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Because Nova, it's a lot more feasible that Batman has a vehicle in his Brazilian location than it is that Punisher figured he'd need Pym Particles to take down a drug cartel.

 

I see the flame portion of the argument has begun. Oh and look who started it...Go figure.

 

Who, me or Force Echo?

[treacherous]

Well, I barely know you and I have no idea what Force is saying unless someone quotes it (and someone quoted it).

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

I see the flame portion of the argument has begun. Oh and look who started it...Go figure.

Which I why I said we should just put it to a vote. At this point, same things are being rehashed, and no one is changing their mind.

 

To be honest, I have seen people change their mind like 5 times if that, typically(or at least what I have personally seen) when people go into the match, without even debating it, their mind is made up.

[C.T.]

Pym Particles.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Pym Particles.

 

Insider Suit.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Pym Particles.

Ha, except I don't believe Frank normally has them on him. That new IronBat suit is built into the Batmobile. The fact that Batman would take the time to make a Batcave in Brazil, he more than likely has a Batmobile handy. (Another point that was made earlier)

 

Let's see how long this game of tennis goes.

[C.T.]

Care package drop, like you said.

[The Void]

Remember I said Batman has limited resources...Because the Batcave in Brazil doesn't have all the things the Batcave in Gotham has. I already stated. The Batcave in Brazil is much smaller.

[Guest force_echo]

Are you reading what I'm goddamn typing? If he is fast enough to block multiple sub machine bullets, he is fast enough to dodge. The scan where he dodges a point blank bullet. The scan where he blocks one with his fist. These simply demonstrate speed and reflexes to dodge bullets.

 

What? Are you reading what I'm typing? There's not a single scan in there where he blocks or dodges a bullet after it's already been fired, if there is, please provide one. I've seen every scan you've posted and a) he never dodges a point blank bullet. You showed a detective get into point blank range, but he doesn't fire in that panel. When he does fire, he's not in point blank range, and it's clear that batman doesn't dodge the bullets, they were a result of bad aim. Also, with the submachine gun bullets, it doesn't show the bullets being fired and then Batman reacting. And no, he doesn't block one with his fist, the guy missed and it hit his glove. It obviously wasn't a block because Batman didn't move his hand to protect his head or body, so unless he's trying to "block" FREE SPACE from getting shot, the guy missed.

 

So yeah, once you've actually proven something instead of just ignoring what I'm saying, come talk to me.

 

Are you retarded? Batmans armor would be shielded against infrared, and Punisher's isn't. So, I hope he drops a flashbang. Hey idiot, Batman has prep too. What makes you think he won't set up traps? Are they both gonna be setting up traps and the favelas at the same time, see each other, and say let's fight in a week?

 

How do you know Punisher's isn't? I just love when people talk about things they have no evidence for. Actually, Punisher does have suits that are invisible to infrared and any number of detection systems, as shown in Civil War, the recent arc with the Avengers, and War Zone #4. Could you show Batman's infrared shielded suit? I would love to see it. Batman's traps, if he does set them up, are superfluous. He's the aggressor, he has to get in range of the Punisher, not the other way around, he's at the disadvantage. Also, pro tip, infrared vision doesn't protect you from flashbangs.

 

The difference between my fan-wanking and yours is that I have posted proof and evidence to back up my "fanboy claims" while you freeze up and use mindless speculation.

 

That's cute. I notice how you didn't refute, or even address, any of my points in that last paragraph.

[C.T.]

For the record, this is when Punisher used pym particles. Dark Reign. Have it in the house somewhere.

 

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Actually it is, I can post scans showing it clearly does function like that which just goes to show Spider Man's powers between writers are inconsistent.

 

I'd like to see the scans.

 

Inconsistency does make things difficult. When one of us is working off of one version of the power and the other is working off a different version and both have evidence... blah.

[C.T.]

Yeah exactly. Hold up, let me try and find em again.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

First off, sorry for not being civil. Now, to the arguments.

 

Are you reading what I'm goddamn typing? If he is fast enough to block multiple sub machine bullets, he is fast enough to dodge. The scan where he dodges a point blank bullet. The scan where he blocks one with his fist. These simply demonstrate speed and reflexes to dodge bullets.

 

What? Are you reading what I'm typing? There's not a single scan in there where he blocks or dodges a bullet after it's already been fired, if there is, please provide one. I've seen every scan you've posted and a) he never dodges a point blank bullet. You showed a detective get into point blank range, but he doesn't fire in that panel. When he does fire, he's not in point blank range, and it's clear that batman doesn't dodge the bullets, they were a result of bad aim. Also, with the submachine gun bullets, it doesn't show the bullets being fired and then Batman reacting. And no, he doesn't block one with his fist, the guy missed and it hit his glove. It obviously wasn't a block because Batman didn't move his hand to protect his head or body, so unless he's trying to "block" FREE SPACE from getting shot, the guy missed.

 

If the scans I already posted don't work for you, here are a few.

batconfidential15-batcopshots1.jpg

batconfidential15-batcopshots2.jpg

 

So yeah, once you've actually proven something instead of just ignoring what I'm saying, come talk to me.

 

Are you retarded? Batmans armor would be shielded against infrared, and Punisher's isn't. So, I hope he drops a flashbang. Hey idiot, Batman has prep too. What makes you think he won't set up traps? Are they both gonna be setting up traps and the favelas at the same time, see each other, and say let's fight in a week?

 

How do you know Punisher's isn't? I just love when people talk about things they have no evidence for. Actually, Punisher does have suits that are invisible to infrared and any number of detection systems, as shown in Civil War, the recent arc with the Avengers, and War Zone #4. Could you show Batman's infrared shielded suit? I would love to see it. Batman's traps, if he does set them up, are superfluous. He's the aggressor, he has to get in range of the Punisher, not the other way around, he's at the disadvantage. Also, pro tip, infrared vision doesn't protect you from flashbangs.

 

Yeah, I will concede that point. I think it's safe to assume that both would be wearing said infrared-insulation. How do you figure that he's the aggressor? Both surely had time to set up traps, or neither sets up traps.

 

The difference between my fan-wanking and yours is that I have posted proof and evidence to back up my "fanboy claims" while you freeze up and use mindless speculation.

 

That's cute. I notice how you didn't refute, or even address, any of my points in that last paragraph.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

blackwhite2-batbulletblock.jpg

 

Also impressive bullet timing.

[Guest force_echo]

Neither of those instances were bullet timing. Again, there's nothing to indicate he moved out of the way after the bullets were fired. This is bullet timing:

 

 

Notice how the bullet is clearly fired THEN Wesley Gibson blocks it. And like I said, even if Batman has the reflex speed, he still can't hear or see the bullet, so there'd be no way to avoid it. It's like the scan where he got shot in the back while walking down the street. Why didn't he just dodge that bullet? Because he didn't know it was coming.

 

Also, Batman doesn't have infrared shielding in his suit. Batman is the aggressor because he has to get within range of the Punisher, the Punisher just has to shoot him, like I've said before. This is the reason guns/arrows/throwing knives were invented, this is the critical advantage to having a ranged weapon of any kind. The guy with a melee weapon (or his hands) has to come after you, you don't have to do shit except shoot him.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Neither of those instances were bullet timing. Again, there's nothing to indicate he moved out of the way after the bullets were fired. This is bullet timing:

 

 

Notice how the bullet is clearly fired THEN Wesley Gibson blocks it. And like I said, even if Batman has the reflex speed, he still can't hear or see the bullet, so there'd be no way to avoid it. It's like the scan where he got shot in the back while walking down the street. Why didn't he just dodge that bullet? Because he didn't know it was coming.

 

Also, Batman doesn't have infrared shielding in his suit. Batman is the aggressor because he has to get within range of the Punisher, the Punisher just has to shoot him, like I've said before. This is the reason guns/arrows/throwing knives were invented, this is the critical advantage to having a ranged weapon of any kind.

 

Notice how in my scan the bullet was clearly fired and Batman batted it away(with ease)using a chain. Or notice how in the other he was on the opposite side of a brick wall, meaning he could not see or hear the cops, and then moves out of the way of the shots. In fact, the only difference between your example and mine is your man uses a knife, while Batman uses a chain.

[Guest force_echo]

No, it wasn't. There is nothing at all indicating that Batman stopped the bullets after they were fired, it's in the same panel, which could mean he raised his hand up before the thug fired. I also notice how you're not addressing my other points. There's also the fact that the rounds the Punisher is firing will be almost 3 times as fast as that standard 9mm handgun round, as per the table Dinsdale put up.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

No, it wasn't. There is nothing at all indicating that Batman stopped the bullets after they were fired, it's in the same panel, which could mean he raised his hand up before the thug fired. I also notice how you're not addressing my other points. There's also the fact that the rounds the Punisher is firing will be almost 3 times as fast as that standard 9mm handgun round, as per the table Dinsdale put up.

 

No, he didn't. The gun goes off, Batman swings chain and blocks said shot. Cops behind wall shoot at Batman, Batman dodges bullets. This one is very convincing because he could not see the police, thus he dodged the shots as soon as they pierced the wall, or the sound was heard. Either must be movement after the bullet leaves the gun. Now, on to other points. They are in a favela. It should be fairly easy for either to get out of sight, and Batman can use a flash bang to vanish. Now, this is where he starts gaining advantages. In the tight spaces of the slum, Batman could get close enough to stun Punisher with a batarang, move in, disarm, and take him down. I would rather not repost the multiple scans of Batman taking people down with batarangs (three thugs with one in a scan). But here's a new one.

 

lotdk164-bat100mph1.jpg

 

Also, don't discount traps Batman could have set such as sonic traps or something like that.

[Guest force_echo]

Prove it, because it doesn't show it in the scan. Him blocking and the firing happens in the same panel, so unless you have some insider information from the author or something, there's no way you can prove he blocked the bullet after it was fired. What? He dodged the shots as soon as they pierced the wall? THAT MEANS THE COPS MISSED. He didn't dodge jack. And he couldn't have heard the shot, first of all, the round travels supersonic. Second of all, there's no way your hearing is precise enough to actually determine the location of the bullet.

 

Umm, no, in the tight spaces of the slum, the Punisher is more likely to notice Batman and shoot him in the face, especially since the Punisher has infrared/x-ray/UV vision. Also, the Punisher isn't some random thug, he would shrug off the batarang and put 3 in Batman's face before he can say "Blam!" Yeah, and don't discount traps the Punisher could have set, like frags. And I doubt sonic traps are even a thing. Batman's not even known for setting traps at all, now that I think about it.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Prove it, because it doesn't show it in the scan. Him blocking and the firing happens in the same panel, so unless you have some insider information from the author or something, there's no way you can prove he blocked the bullet after it was fired. What? He dodged the shots as soon as they pierced the wall? THAT MEANS THE COPS MISSED. He didn't dodge jack. And he couldn't have heard the shot, first of all, the round travels supersonic. Second of all, there's no way your hearing is precise enough to actually determine the location of the bullet.

 

My hearing? No. But I can't bench 1000 lbs either. And if you actually look at the scan I posted, Batman is hunched over Wrath. Next, bullets come through wall and Batman is leaping backwards out of their path. So no, you're wrong.

 

Umm, no, in the tight spaces of the slum, the Punisher is more likely to notice Batman and shoot him in the face, especially since the Punisher has infrared/x-ray/UV vision. Also, the Punisher isn't some random thug, he would shrug off the batarang and put 3 in Batman's face before he can say "Blam!" Yeah, and don't discount traps the Punisher could have set, like frags. And I doubt sonic traps are even a thing. Batman's not even known for setting traps at all, now that I think about it.

 

Range advantages are negated in tight spaces, not the other way around. Easier to get close. Secondly, Punisher won't shrug off a 100 mph batarang to the face, for sure. And while he was "shrugging off" the batarang, Batman would disarm him and take him down. Like this.

 

lotdk165-batblinkspeed1.jpg

lotdk165-batblinkspeed2.jpg

 

Secondly, Batman has thermal imaging too. So, he can just as easily maneuver through the favela and hit Punisher with batarang, then move in for the KO. Here's Batman blocking bullets with his cape, and survives explosions.

 

batarmor-vigilante5.jpg

 

batarmor-abbot3.jpg

batarmor-abbot4.jpg

 

batman576-batcowl1.jpg

 

So please, do everyone a favor and stop saying that Batman gets shot and drops dead. And Batman routinely sneaks into facilities with some sort of thermal imaging, so he certainly has some way to beat thermal imaging.

 

[Guest force_echo]

My hearing? No. But I can't bench 1000 lbs either. And if you actually look at the scan I posted, Batman is hunched over Wrath. Next, bullets come through wall and Batman is leaping backwards out of their path. So no, you're wrong.

 

Anyone's hearing, any animal, any organism, any detection equipment that ever existed and ever will, if the bullet literally travels faster than the speed of sound it doesn't matter how good your hearing is. Batman could be Daredevil plus some, he still wouldn't hear the bullet coming. Yeah, because the bullets MISS, not because he dodged them. Look up Occam's Razor, I feel like I'm debating someone with little to no knowledge of basic logical principles.

 

Range advantages are negated in tight spaces, not the other way around. Easier to get close. Secondly, Punisher won't shrug off a 100 mph batarang to the face, for sure. And while he was "shrugging off" the batarang, Batman would disarm him and take him down. Like this.

 

Prove that Batman throws it 100 mph. Also, criminals have gotten back up fairly quickly from batarangs, regular freaking criminals. The Punisher hardens himself by extreme physical conditioning, he's taken punches from f*cking Spider-Man and has gotten THROWN THROUGH BUILDINGS by Luke Cage and SENTRY to pick himself back up again with little to no delay. If you think a Batarang is going to do sh*t to him, put away your Batman themed cum rag and actually read a Punisher comic. Yeah, nice scans, but Punisher won't be reluctant to shoot because there's a fellow police officer standing behind Batman. How about you actually read your scans before posting them? And you called me a fanboy, lol.

 

Also, ranged advantages are never negated unless you're literally forced to stand within arm's reach of someone. Also, I'm pretty sure Punisher, havig done recon on the favelas, will choose an open, defensible position with traps laid in strategic locations. He's not going to be like "Let's walk down super tight allies and corners, because that's a GREAT idea!" He's a tactical genius, equal to, if not greater than, Batman.

 

Secondly, Batman has thermal imaging too. So, he can just as easily maneuver through the favela and hit Punisher with batarang, then move in for the KO. Here's Batman blocking bullets with his cape, and survives explosions.

 

Yeah, except The Punisher, like I've already said twice now if you actually read what I post, has anti-thermal equipment. Batman doesn't. Just because you state some vague situation doesn't count as proof of anything. Find me a single source anywhere that says he has anti-thermal tech in his suit, because I can't.

 

Again, there are multiple sources, including Batman himself, that say that the armor is only resistant to small caliber weaponry. In your own scan Batman says he can't handle AP rounds, and I've already given sources where Batman is knocked on his ass by a lesser caliber. The Punisher is going to use .45 ACPs and up, with armor piercing, hell, even tracer, rounds. Batman's armor is not going to be able to stand up against Punisher's weaponry, that point isn't even debatable.