Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'll give you a whatever. I'm done enlightning you... Still: -The Three Eyed clan being an Alien race is documented in the Daizushu (vol 7). And it is said Tien ancestors belong to this race.-Yajirobe never trained much after the original Piccolo saga. He's not in Krilin's league. By the Saiyan saga, even Yamcha would mop the floor with him.-I told you right from the start, maths aren't relevant when it comes to fantasy. Still, you're confident in mathematical calculations, but I find amusing that other calculations exist, calculations which demonstrate the exact opposite. Like I said, it depends on who you're asking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'll give you a whatever. I'm done enlightning you...is that what we call ignoring all facts and sticking to your fanboyism now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest God-Speed_88 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'll give you a whatever. I'm done enlightning you... Still: -The Three Eyed clan being an Alien race is documented in the Daizushu (vol 7). And it is said Tien ancestors belong to this race.-Yajirobe never trained much after the original Piccolo saga. He's not in Krilin's league. By the Saiyan saga, even Yamcha would mop the floor with him. is that what we call ignoring all facts and sticking to your fanboyism now? Those two points are facts even if the former is questionable it still is in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Fanboyism? Come on, you're a fanboy the very second you post on a forum such as this one. We're all fanboys, as for me, I'm not convinced by the "evidence" I've been presented -evidence I've seen in other debates mostly, hardly anything new- and I noticed I haven't convinced any of you either. Or maybe I did, and was rewarded with denial. It's okay. I'll live... Thank you, Godspeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 There is a difference between being a fan of comics and wanking on one character or set of characters. When you blow there power levels out of proportion like you have done here. Personally I'm a fan of DBZ but there is no way there strength and durability can match up against major comic characters like supes, Thor, sentry, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 You're making your assertions out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 You're making your assertions out of thin air.not really. No zfighter has shown strength, speed, or durability comparable to the top tier marvel fighters in this match. Watch the screw attack fight of goku and Supes. They even give Goku help by increasing his speed some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yawn. Of course they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Nope. They have comparable energy blasts, sure. Nothing else. Strength? Speed? Durability? All inferior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yawn. Of course they have.*rolls eyes* We have all heard the DBZ excuses before but none have held up. Lets just agree to disagree because there is no proof that they can hang in a fight with top tier comic characters. Quick question. when was the last time a z character broke a moon by flying through it, Lifted the weight of the earth, Lifted a snake bigger than earth, moved faster than light, survived two planets colliding while in the middle, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yes, let's agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yes, let's agree to disagree.seeing as you have no proof I would say that would be wise of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 No proofs of what? I'm just saying they're even in terms of speed, you're saying they're not. Now, some Marvel Einsteins claim Dbzer's aren't FTL due to their own "calculations", while Dbzer's Einsteins claim the exact opposite. Like I said, it depends who you're asking, it depends which side you support, I guess. There's evidence the show throughout these guys are super fast, their power keeps on growing all the time, and there's enough material establishing they're FTL, simple as that. Whether you're okay with that or not... to put it mildly... I'll let you finish my sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest God-Speed_88 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 The way I see it is if Goku SSj3 was in the Marvel universe then he would be a Top Tier character, I'm not saying he would defeat them, or be near the highest, but he would be in that league. Plus, he can teleport remember so he can move instantly. There is people on all forums debating wether or not DBZ characters are FTL, people on this site tend to be against that ideology, which is fair enough, but there are two sides of the coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 No proofs of what? I'm just saying they're even in terms of speed, you're saying they're not. Now, some Marvel Einsteins claim Dbzer's aren't FTL due to their own "calculations", while Dbzer's Einsteins claim the exact opposite. Like I said, it depends who you're asking, it depends which side you support, I guess. There's evidence the show throughout these guys are super fast, their power keeps on growing all the time, and there's enough material establishing they're FTL, simple as that. Whether you're okay with that or not... to put it mildly... I'll let you finish my sentence first none have ever shown to be able to move that fast. A couple have IT but that's really teleportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indolent Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Please. If you would be so kind, would you please give me damning proof that illustrates the likes of the Z-Fighters being on a level akin to the likes of Thor Odinson or Clark Kent/Kal El in terms of durability, strength, and speed? I know for a fact that the Z-Fighters should not be placed within the Top Tier class akin to the likes of Thor Odinson and Kal El (they're the prime examples, treat them as such). I know for a fact that Goku at his most powerful... cannot survive a Supernova. Thor and Superman have withstood a Supernova and survived intact with little damage. I know for a fact Thor can easily survive an explosion that would destroy 1/10th the universe due to his shielding. I know for a fact that Goku could not survive a black hole whereas Thor and Superman can. If you have any actual hard evidence to the contrary, please do provide them. I know for a fact that Goku at his most powerful... cannot shatter planets with mere strength as Thor and Superman can. I know for a fact that Goku at his most powerful... cannot lift a standard million tons at base. Thor and Superman can and they've demonstrated capability far beyond the set base. I could list more strength capabilities as stated and shown by their respective companies - if you have any actual hard evidence to the contrary, please do provide them. I know for a fact that Goku at his most powerful... cannot move and fight at speeds several thousand times the speed of light a la Superman. I know for a fact that Goku at his most powerful cannot react at several times the speed of light in terms of combat speed whereas Thor can (if the SS3 Gotenks is anything to go by, it pretty much implicates speeds far below light speed and that such strenous effort rendered him tired in doing so). If you have any actual hard evidence to the contrary, please do provide them. The fact is: You most likely and certainly cannot provide these evidences let alone rebuke the instances of the Top Tier's capabilities. Yet you are doing so with just your opinion and the shoddy argument that there's two sides to a coin as well as the shoddy argument of people mathing it out. Yes, that is true... these sides would be Facts and Fanboyism. Instead of this, try and compare actual feats and stated capabilities in between the characters, it becomes much clearer (it already has hence the resorted defense of mathing/sides argument I presume). It's really simple. -.- The Z Team are outclassed in comparison to the Marvel Team in composition, structure, and capability. Granted there are a few members on the Marvel team that are worthless but then there are members on the team that are readily capable of handling the opposition as another Tuesday. Edit: This is merely to get across the point that there's really no evidence supporting Oltobaz's argument and hopefully to illustrate to GodSpeed that he's blowing them out of proportions just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest God-Speed_88 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Goku has tanked planet busting attacks, moves just under FTL, has flight, teleportation, can read minds, has insane energy attacks which could bust a planet easily. That in comics would be considered within the realms of Top Tier. Can he beat Thor or Supes, No, but they are the pinnacle of that Tier. I never said he could defeat them. All I was saying is that he would be considered in that league, edging just out of Mid Tier into top tier. I don't think that is an unreasonable statement to make. Would you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indolent Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Goku has tanked planet busting attacks, moves just under FTL, has flight, teleportation, can read minds, has insane energy attacks which could bust a planet easily. That in comics would be considered within the realms of Top Tier. Can he beat Thor or Supes, No, but they are the pinnacle of that Tier. I never said he could defeat them. All I was saying is that he would be considered in that league, edging just out of Mid Tier into top tier. I don't think that is an unreasonable statement to make. Would you disagree?It's assuming all attacks are planet busting - iirc he's more likely deflected them, not tanked otherwise there would be substantial damage to the surrounding regardless. -.- Prove to me he moves under FTL, there's a vast difference between being no where close to FTL and moving just under. Teleportion =/= actual moving/combat speed. His telepathy couldn't be used offensively regardless. I knew I forgot something - should have mentioned Thor had superior energy attacks. But yes, they do have capable energy attacks, which is like one of two edges they have (the other being hand to hand skill in conjunction with their ki) So yes, I would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainboa Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 snip I'm just saying they're even in terms of speed, you're saying they're not. Basic debating 101, if you're making a claim, and somebody voices their disbelief/disagreement with your claim, you need to provide evidence to support your claim. If you can't provide evidence, then your claim is considered invalid. Now, some Marvel Einsteins claim Dbzer's aren't FTL due to their own "calculations", while Dbzer's Einsteins claim the exact opposite. And unless any evidence is shown, that actually proves that the Dragon ball characters are FTL, the "Marvel Einsteins" claim, would be considered correct. Like I said, it depends who you're asking, it depends which side you support, I guess. There's no guessing about it, provide evidence for your claims, and they will be considered correct, until that point, they will at best be considered a misinterpretation, and at worst pure fan-wanking. There's evidence the show throughout these guys are super fast, their power keeps on growing all the time, and there's enough material establishing they're FTL, simple as that. Not quite, while it's correct that they are super fast, and that their power keeps growing, there's no clear evidence to support the claim of them being FTL. The best 'speed feat' is ambiguous, making it unclear whether Gotenks is FTL, or slower. If you actually have some clear evidence, meaning evidence that can't be interpreted in any way other than them being FTL, please show it, it would make debates that much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Actually Goku is much more faster than Thor. Thor has very slow reaction time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Instant teleportation, now that's fast. Yet, Perfect Cell, even before his SSJ2 power boost, was able to follow Goku thanks to his own speed, negating what could have been a substantial advantage. In other words, he was fast enough to catch up with someone who can move instantly. He was FTL, at least. How fast he got after that, how fast they got after that, who even knows? They became faster, exponentially, the same way an RPG character becomes more powerful after each levels. RPGs always have a top level limit though. For instance, FF VII chars can't level up beyond 99. DBZ chars however always have new levels to reach. At some point, they obviously broke the speed of light. And a guy like Broly is always getting XP, each and every minute that go by, he's getting stronger, faster, more powerful. Powerful enough to destroy the Earth in considerably less than most of you guys seem to think. Edit: Just read what Kaiboa wrote. He doesn't agree with me, yet seems to admit it's very much possible someone like Gotenks is FTL, as he describes the feat as ambigous. That's the type of person I can have a conversation with. Maybe the Cell feat I just presented will be taken into consideration, as well. And the potential implication, if he's that fast at that level, just how fast do they get later? As for Thor, he's certainly not as fast as someone like Sentry, especially during combat. I wouldn't call him slow either, I'd just say his travel speed is higher than his actual combat speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 But again you have no proof of this ^. This is all your opinion. You have no facts, clips, or images that support your claims. Therefore we revert back to what jaeger and kain have already said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'm too lazy to post pics from the Manga and clips from the Anime. But the evidence I'm presenting is available on the internet, and Google is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'm too lazy to post pics from the Manga and clips from the Anime. But the evidence I'm presenting is available on the internet, and Google is your friend. well the problem with that is I own the entire DBZ series and have never seen the "facts" your stating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oltobaz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Really? Re read the Cell Games then, first few panels of Cell and Goku's showdown. It's easier than re watching the episodes, though you could do that too.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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