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Rumble 13746 Superman vs. King Kong


Guest Dinsdale Piranha
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Guest batmanKing989

Did you even read the original post? This is not the planet-moving Superman most of us are familiar with. This is the original, 1938 Supes, who is much less powerful . 

i know i have watched a few of those episodes and one of them had a gorilla not as big and strong as kong but supes still beat it, i'd say that is half as strong as regular king kong and putting 2 halfs together dosn't make it any better in this situation

 

lets put it this way if this superman were to face 2 of those half sized kongs would he win? of course, so why would one big one be any harder, as well in one episode he fought a t-rex and won, kong has fought 2 t-rexs and won BUT on the case of big injuries, then supes has also fought 2 giant mummy statues in another episode, i got a whole CD where he takes on these certain animals, monsters, and stuff that it seems although not as strong, he can still win

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Guest batmanKing989

He got shot a lot. That's more an endurance thing than a strength thing. If you shoot Wonder Woman and she doesn't block it with one of her magic bracelets, she dies too.

 

well do you think superman is going to be fighting kong alone..the milatary and stuff will help too, and it'll be the same drastic outcome where come climbs the building and either dies by the planes or superman knocking him off the building and there's another thing superman would be hurt but still get back up and wipe it off if he fell off the building but kong would die ;) think of it that way

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well do you think superman is going to be fighting kong alone..the milatary and stuff will help too, and it'll be the same drastic outcome where come climbs the building and either dies by the planes or superman knocking him off the building and there's another thing superman would be hurt but still get back up and wipe it off if he fell off the building but kong would die ;) think of it that way

Yes. Superman is fighting alone. The police, military, the Justice League, and Lois Lane will all be sitting this one out. The Rumble is, after all, Superman vs. King Kong, not Superman and 100 guys with guns and planes vs. King Kong. Since Kong doesn't seem to have the girl in his hand this time, he won't be running up any buildings to get away from Supes.

 

 

i know i have watched a few of those episodes and one of them had a gorilla not as big and strong as kong but supes still beat it, i'd say that is half as strong as regular king kong and putting 2 halfs together dosn't make it any better in this situation

 

lets put it this way if this superman were to face 2 of those half sized kongs would he win? of course, so why would one big one be any harder, as well in one episode he fought a t-rex and won, kong has fought 2 t-rexs and won BUT on the case of big injuries, then supes has also fought 2 giant mummy statues in another episode, i got a whole CD where he takes on these certain animals, monsters, and stuff that it seems although not as strong, he can still win

Saying that putting two halves together doesn't change anything is wrong. I could pretty easily kick the crap out of two scrawny guys who weighed 125 lbs, but one guy who weighed 250 would be very different.

Is the Superman in the 1940s animated series the same as the one from the 1938 comics? There are often massive differences between how characters are presented in cartoon and in comics. Superman from the animated series I watched growing up would get crushed by the comics version.

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Guest batmanKing989

Yes. Superman is fighting alone. The police, military, the Justice League, and Lois Lane will all be sitting this one out. The Rumble is, after all, Superman vs. King Kong, not Superman and 100 guys with guns and planes vs. King Kong. Since Kong doesn't seem to have the girl in his hand this time, he won't be running up any buildings to get away from Supes.

 

 

Saying that putting two halves together doesn't change anything is wrong. I could pretty easily kick the crap out of two scrawny guys who weighed 125 lbs, but one guy who weighed 250 would be very different.

Is the Superman in the 1940s animated series the same as the one from the 1938 comics? There are often massive differences between how characters are presented in cartoon and in comics. Superman from the animated series I watched growing up would get crushed by the comics version.

<_< ok so i understand superman dosn't have certain abilites but his strength and speed could be enough (plus the instructbility) and then like i said about kong, he isn't indestructable and now can superman be killed by anything besides krptinite, no, and that was even prooven by superman doomsday that he can be knocked out, put into shock, coma, he can feel pain nessicarly, but the only way to kill him is krptinite by all means and this is a fight to the death i suppose (superman might not think so) but it is the only way for this to end  ^_^

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Guest batmanKing989

He got shot a lot. That's more an endurance thing than a strength thing. If you shoot Wonder Woman and she doesn't block it with one of her magic bracelets, she dies too.

but he died...soooo  :mellow: your point

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Guest potterpuppetpals

i know i have watched a few of those episodes and one of them had a gorilla not as big and strong as kong but supes still beat it, i'd say that is half as strong as regular king kong and putting 2 halfs together dosn't make it any better in this situation

 

lets put it this way if this superman were to face 2 of those half sized kongs would he win? of course, so why would one big one be any harder, as well in one episode he fought a t-rex and won, kong has fought 2 t-rexs and won BUT on the case of big injuries, then supes has also fought 2 giant mummy statues in another episode, i got a whole CD where he takes on these certain animals, monsters, and stuff that it seems although not as strong, he can still win

 

What the *vulgarity*'re you talking about, bro?

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Guest potterpuppetpals

Good point about climbing the ESB.

 

The best way I can think of to gauge Kong's strength would be to figure out the strength of the chains he broke. The problem is, we'd have to know a lot more about them than we do. I did some checking and the largest readily available chain you can purchase appears to be 1" (this measures the thickness of the metal in each link.) The safe use rating for that varies a bit but a high-quality chain is rated for 47,700 lbs (23.85 tons.) The breaking point is 4 times the safe rating (it can break under lower stress but this is the strain that will always break it) so 47700 *4=190800 or 95.4 tons.

 

It's a big assumption, but if Kong's chains are of comparable strength, he would have to put somewhere between 24-95 tons of pressure on them to break free.

0753_1_lg.jpg

This is the best resolution I've found so far. My impression is that the chains are thicker than 1" but the standard for strength may have been lower back then too.

 

The other thing that may help is the airplanes. I think they are Curtis SBC Helldivers which weigh 7080 lbs. loaded and have a max speed of 203 knots (234 mph.) Kong not only catches one but holds it with one hand before tossing it away.

 

He didn't need physical power to break those chains. All Kong needed was

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShN8UIk5-mw

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Guest Dinsdale Piranha

Saying that putting two halves together doesn't change anything is wrong. I could pretty easily kick the crap out of two scrawny guys who weighed 125 lbs, but one guy who weighed 250 would be very different.

Is the Superman in the 1940s animated series the same as the one from the 1938 comics? There are often massive differences between how characters are presented in cartoon and in comics. Superman from the animated series I watched growing up would get crushed by the comics version.

 

They're not really the same. Superman in the cartoons was still much weaker than the version we are most familiar with, but he was stronger than the version in the comics. For one thing, Superman in the cartoons could fly (Fleischer Studios insisted on the change because they claimed flying was much easier to animate than taking giant leaps.) The character in the comics soon gained increased powers also to match up with what people were seeing in the cartoons.

 

The Fleischer cartoons are great, IMO. Hand painted at (IIRC) 16 frames a second makes it some of the smoothest, prettiest animation to this day. And the plots, while simple and not dealing a with character development or story arcs, are still fun and very much worth watching.

 

The gorilla episode you are referring to is a lot of fun, though the gorilla appears to be much closer to Mighty Joe Young in size than to Kong. You call him a half-Kong and he's about half Kong's height. The thing is a creature's mass grows exponentially at its height increases. If Kong is twice as tall as the circus gorilla, he would be 8 times as heavy.

 

I notice a lot of your arguments are based on the 1938 Superman having the same powers and weaknesses as the modern version. That's understandable, but the character has really changed in a number of ways. There was no kryptonite in the '30s stories. That was created much later for the Superman radio program. Also the is no reason to believe he would have gone into a Kryptonian healing coma, that was invented for the Doomsday storyline. 

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Guest batmanKing989

What the *vulgarity*'re you talking about, bro?

the superman version they're using is from the original cartoons, i have a CD that has all the episodes and certain ones can relate to king kong

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Guest Dinsdale Piranha

No, the Superman version I'm using is from the original comic books. Superman from the cartoons came along several years later and is more powerful.

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Guest batmanKing989

I gathered that around paragraph three.

 

My point is that while he isn't bulletproof, Kong could still take blows from this version of Superman.

point taken but he can still die...and superman can't without krptinite

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Guest batmanKing989

No, the Superman version I'm using is from the original comic books. Superman from the cartoons came along several years later and is more powerful.

but he is still strong enough to beat kong

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Guest batmanKing989

They're not really the same. Superman in the cartoons was still much weaker than the version we are most familiar with, but he was stronger than the version in the comics. For one thing, Superman in the cartoons could fly (Fleischer Studios insisted on the change because they claimed flying was much easier to animate than taking giant leaps.) The character in the comics soon gained increased powers also to match up with what people were seeing in the cartoons.

 

The Fleischer cartoons are great, IMO. Hand painted at (IIRC) 16 frames a second makes it some of the smoothest, prettiest animation to this day. And the plots, while simple and not dealing a with character development or story arcs, are still fun and very much worth watching.

 

The gorilla episode you are referring to is a lot of fun, though the gorilla appears to be much closer to Mighty Joe Young in size than to Kong. You call him a half-Kong and he's about half Kong's height. The thing is a creature's mass grows exponentially at its height increases. If Kong is twice as tall as the circus gorilla, he would be 8 times as heavy.

 

I notice a lot of your arguments are based on the 1938 Superman having the same powers and weaknesses as the modern version. That's understandable, but the character has really changed in a number of ways. There was no kryptonite in the '30s stories. That was created much later for the Superman radio program. Also the is no reason to believe he would have gone into a Kryptonian healing coma, that was invented for the Doomsday storyline. 

so superman CAN'T die is what i'm saying and that proves my point although kong can die

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so superman CAN'T die is what i'm saying and that proves my point although kong can die

Unless you can provide some evidence that this much less powerful version of Superman is immune to death unless in the presence of Kryptonite -a substance the writers hadn't even brought into the Superman mythos yet- there is no reason to assume that the only way to kill him is with Kryptonite.

I would also argue that Superman is able to die without Kryptonite being involved. Didn't Doomsday take him out with his bare hands?

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Guest potterpuppetpals

BatmanKing, just get out of here. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The original golden age Superman was retconned several times since his first appearance. Both his powers and skillset in this match are specifically from like the first few issues of Action Comics, where Supes powers were significantly weaker than the modern post crisis version.

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Guest Manar

Actually not only can the original Superman die, he already has died. 1961 did DC decide that all the original golden age stories happened in a parallell universe they called Earth 2. Superman of Earth 2 where temporary written out of the comic at the Crisis of Infinite Earths cross over but where called back and killed of for good in Infinite Crisis. It didnt take any kryptonite to do it either, just a good beating from Superboy Prime

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Actually not only can the original Superman die, he already has died. 1961 did DC decide that all the original golden age stories happened in a parallell universe they called Earth 2. Superman of Earth 2 where temporary written out of the comic at the Crisis of Infinite Earths cross over but where called back and killed of for good in Infinite Crisis. It didnt take any kryptonite to do it either, just a good beating from Superboy Prime

Thank you. So the kryptonite only thing seems to be debunked. I hope that's the last we hear of it.

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Guest Dinsdale Piranha

You're saying Superman is stronger than Kong, but you need to back that up with some evidence. Evidence from the cartoons you mentioned isn't helpful because that's not the version of Superman we're discussing.

 

You're saying Superman can't die but you also need to show evidence for that. Using the Doomsday story or talking about kryptonite isn't helpful because the version we're discussing comes from a time before Doomsday or kryptonite had been invented. 

 

The statement in Action Comics #1 is "...nothing less than a bursting shell can pierce his skin." That's kind of vague because there are many kinds of shells; this could mean anything from a hand-carried mortar to a 24" battleship gun. The point they're making though is that superman can be hurt by very powerful military weapons. They never explicitly say that enough hits with artillery or a big enough bomb could kill him, but if you can hurt someone it's a short logical step to being able to kill him.

 

I think it's pretty safe to say that Doomsday could easily have killed this version of Superman. Of course, Kong is much less powerful than Doomsday, so we'll have to see what people think.

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Guest Dinsdale Piranha

Here's a link to the VQF 4.5 inch howitzer, which is on the smallish side. Just for argument's sake, let's say this is the smallest weapon that can do anything to Superman at all. It fires a 35 lb. high exposive shell. If I've figured this out correctly, 35 lbs. of TNT releases 62.76 megajoules of energy when it explodes. Assuming that's what it takes to make Superman bleed we can assume it would take a force many times stronger to knock him out and an even greater force to kill him.

 

Kong's arm should be about 15% of his total mass, so about 2 tons. I can't find any data on striking speed for a gorilla. For argument's sake, let's say it's comparable to that of a 

 or about 30 feet per second. Kong is able to hit a target in the same time as a normal gorilla but his great size means he's moving 4 times the distance in the same time. If we assign Kong a 120 foot/second striking speed we can determine that he hits with 0.6068 megajoules.

 

If all my assumptions are correct (that's a BIG assumption) that sounds as if Kong can't hurt Superman. His arm strikes would do about the same damage as a 2.2 lb. TNT explosion, which is intense, but only 1/15 of the energy of the howitzer shell. 

 

Interestingly, this would also mean that Superman, who has less muscular strength than Kong, wouldn't be able to hurt himself with a punch, so it's likely I've done something wrong in my calculations.

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Guest potterpuppetpals

Here's a link to the VQF 4.5 inch howitzer, which is on the smallish side. Just for argument's sake, let's say this is the smallest weapon that can do anything to Superman at all. It fires a 35 lb. high exposive shell. If I've figured this out correctly, 35 lbs. of TNT releases 62.76 megajoules of energy when it explodes. Assuming that's what it takes to make Superman bleed we can assume it would take a force many times stronger to knock him out and an even greater force to kill him.

 

Kong's arm should be about 15% of his total mass, so about 2 tons. I can't find any data on striking speed for a gorilla. For argument's sake, let's say it's comparable to that of a 

 or about 30 feet per second. Kong is able to hit a target in the same time as a normal gorilla but his great size means he's moving 4 times the distance in the same time. If we assign Kong a 120 foot/second striking speed we can determine that he hits with 0.6068 megajoules.

 

If all my assumptions are correct (that's a BIG assumption) that sounds as if Kong can't hurt Superman. His arm strikes would do about the same damage as a 2.2 lb. TNT explosion, which is intense, but only 1/15 of the energy of the howitzer shell. 

 

Interestingly, this would also mean that Superman, who has less muscular strength than Kong, wouldn't be able to hurt himself with a punch, so it's likely I've done something wrong in my calculations.

 

No offense, Dinsdale, but you're actually putting too much calculations into this fight. lol.

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