Justice League VS Avengers

[xLEGACYx]

This is the cartoon versions of both teams

 

Justice League / Unlimited the animated series

 

Superman

Batman

Wonder Woman

Martian Manhunter

John Stewart

Flash

Hawkgirl

 

VS

 

Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes

 

Iron Man

Hulk

Captain America

Hawkeye

Ms. Marvel

Black Panther

Thor

Vision

 

The fight takes place on War World.  No one can die because the moment a killing/knockout blow is dealt, they will be removed from the battle field.  Neither team has any prep.

 

Also yes I know the teams are uneven in numbers

[C.T.]

Why is Hawkman with the Avengers?

[xLEGACYx]

Why is Hawkman with the Avengers?

oops  meant to put Hawkeye.  Its edited

[Guest bigballerju]

Justice League wins easily. Superman and Flash can speed blitz Team 2 for the win. Flash is FTL on the show and can do most of the things his comic book counterpart can do. Superman is fast as well though not FTL. You add in Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern to back them up they will have no problem.

[Guest skadoosh]

The Justice League stomps everybody but Thor and Hulk, who they still beat but not for a while, and possibly Iron Man, depending on what armour he's wearing and how powerful it is, etc.

[C.T.]

Nah Ms. Marvel and Vision can hold their own just as well as Thor and Hulk.

[xLEGACYx]

Also in the cartoon, Flash cant go too fast or he risks being sucked into the speed force itself.

[Guest bigballerju]

Flash in the tv show can hit light speed with no problem. Flash risks getting pulled into the speed force if he pulls on almost all of it like he did against Brainac/Lex Luthor. Most of Team 2 can be taken down easily by the JLA in many ways. Really it's:

 

Superman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Wonder Woman

 

vs

 

Hulk,Thor, and maybe Ms.Marvel. Vision isn't a fact as Martian Manhunter can take care of him easily. Ms.Marvel is a huge maybe since even Wonder Woman or Green Lantern could knock her out with ease.

 

The other members of the Avengers don't even factor and aren't a problem.

[C.T.]

Flash in the tv show was light speed once and he even said he couldn't go that fast again.

 

Actually it's the Justice League (minus Batman and Hawkgirl, both of whom can be handled by Cap, Hawkeye and Black Panther) versus Hulk, Thor, Ms Marvel, Vision and Iron Man. None of those are maybes.

[Guest bigballerju]

Flash in the tv show was light speed once and he even said he couldn't go that fast again.

 

Actually it's the Justice League (minus Batman and Hawkgirl, both of whom can be handled by Cap, Hawkeye and Black Panther) versus Hulk, Thor, Ms Marvel, Vision and Iron Man. None of those are maybes.

 The JLA have fought and defeated toughter opponents then what the Avengers from the cartoon did.  Don't get me wrong Nova. I love both shows so I am not being biased. I just feel members of the JLU were were more skilled, faster,  stronger, and more experienced then then Avengers.

 

1. Superman beats Thor. ( Superman on the JLU show is faster and stronger then AEMH's Thor if you take all his feats from the Superman Animated Series, JL, and JLU which are all in the same world. )

2. Wonder Woman can definitely put down Ms.Marvel.

3. Martian Manhunter easily shuts down the minds of Hawkeye and Black Panther with a telepathy attack. Martian Manhunter while doing that with no problem can beat Hulk.

4. Batman and Hawkgirl beat Captain America. Batman in the DCAU is strong enough to fight Croc, Bane, and even throw Superman on separate occasions.

5. The Flash can definitely beat Vision. With his speed force and multiple abilities he wins. Flash can figure out a way to beat Vision.

6. Green Lantern can beat Ironman easily.

 

No matter how you cut it the JLU can win this easily and in different ways.

[C.T.]

1. Possibly. It would be a good fight.

2. No, it is not definite. She could win, and so can Ms Marvel.

3. I'm assuming the characters are in character, so he wouldn't really do that. Moreover in the show Manhunter was downplayed to be weaker than Superman significantly physical wise. His advantage is phasing yes, but given Hulk's healing, he can take it. Then comes physical attacks, which he has to be unphased for. And given his reduced capablilites, Hulk can hang with him. Especially with his fire weakness.

4. Cap, Black Panther and Hawkeye have all dealt with heavy hitters before too, so not sure what point you're making. Cap can duel Bats, Hawkeye can keep Hawkgirl at a distance and Black Panther can run interference on both with his magitech equipment, like his energy daggers that hurt powerful opponents such as Wonder Man and such.

5. Vision is in the air, possibly phasing. What the hell is Flash supposed to do?

6. Possibly. He didn't really do anything in the cartoon that makes him a clear winner over Iron Man.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

This is an excellent match, IMO the animated versions are more interesting to discuss like this, which makes this more interesting, IMO. My only regret is that I would rather have seen Ant Man and the Wasp in this match than Ms. Marvel and Vision. That's just personal opinion though.

 

First some general observations: In Justice League and Superman we got a look at Supes taking on several characters who are rough analogues of Marvel characters. In "Prototype" he fights a man in a suit of powered armor who gives him a pretty rough time. Steel's armor is an improved version of the prototype. In "Heavy Metal" he shows that he can go toe to toe with Metally, though in "Panic in the Sky" Galatea is able to beat Steel handily. The conclusion is that these suits of armor are powerful enough to hold off a superman-level character for a while, but are ultimately inferior to Superman's power. It's just MHO but the Iron Man's armor seen in Avengers: EMH is superior to the LexCorp suit or Steel, but not vastly. I don't think IM could beat Supes without some special preparation. The other battle that I think it interesting comes in "The Terror Beyond." That episode features the odd teaming of Dr. Fate, Solomon Grundy, and Aquaman who are effectively standing in for the original Defenders: Dr. Strange, Hulk, and Namor. Superman takes on Grundy and, after a difficult battle, beats him. I think this is Bruce Timm's version of what would happen in a Supes-Hulk fight. I'm a big Hulk fight and think he has the potential to beat the man of Steel but, in this case, I think Timm got it right. IMO Superman wins something like 6 out of 10 matches.

 

Breaking this down into individual fights (cause that's how I roll) here's what I see…

 

Superman vs Thor - This one is so close I'm going to call it dead even. IMO, Supes has the advantage with durability and speed, but Mjolnir balances the odds. Without it, I think Thor would lose, but the hammer evens things and gives him the potential of either bashing Superman unconscious or stunning him with lightning. (Animated Superman seems to be surprisingly vulnerable to electrical attacks as can be seen in his battles with Livewire, Weather Wizard and Captain Marvel.

 

Batman vs Panther & Hawkeye - There are two more Avengers than Leaguers so I stuck Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel in where I thought they would do the most good. IMO, Panther vs. Batman is just about dead even. Both are brilliant, with Batman's brains skewing more to detection and Panther's to science. Both are supurb athletes and skilled fighters, with Panther having a slight edge in physical prowess and Batman a slight advantage in skill. Both have excellent gadgeds, I'd say Panther's are more advances but Batman's are more versatile. IMO, Batman would have a rough time fighting Hawkeye but would win. He'd have a rougher time fighting T';Challa and the outcome would be in doubt. If he's fighting both under the conditions of the set up, he will lose.

 

Wonder Woman vs Hulk - This is another that I find hard to call. Diana is strong enough to hurt the Hulk. She's much faster, more skilled, and smarter. Hulk is stronger and much more durable. Diana's problem is that it will be hard for her to score a quick knock out on the Hulk. If she doesn't know that much about him, her most logical strategy will be to stick and run, hoping to wear him down. That will infuriate Hulk and she'll wear herself out long before he gets tired. I suspect Hulk wins this 7 out of 10.

 

Martian Manhunter vs Vision - This is a fight I'd love to see because of the unusual powers they both have. Animated J'onn is a telepath but I don't remember ever seeing him use that as a weapon. Even if he had, I dunno if he would get much traction on Vision's artificial brain. I can't call this one, but I would love to see it done.

 

John Stewart vs Iron Man - This is another one that's difficult to call. I think John has more raw power at his disposal than Stark, but there are a surprising number of attacks on the show that broke through his shields, that the uni-beam in the Avengers series was extremely powerful. It put down Ulik the Troll with one shot. It could go either way and or could end in a draw, with Tony using all his power to knock GL out and ending up drained himself. I'm gonna call it even.

 

Flash vs. Ms. Marvel - While Flash has amazing potential, he seldom lives up to it in the JL series. Ms. Marvel is a much more disciplined fighter and is pretty close to invulnerable (Griffon broke his teeth on her skin. That's impressive, especially if he's Hulk-level strength like he is in the comics.) While Flash could win through a really clever use of his powers, it's more likely that he'll try one of his more typical attacks, like circle her throwing a barrage of punches. That won't get through her invulnerability and she'll do something like blast the ground causing him to trip.

 

Hawkgirl vs Captain America - This is another that I find hard to call, though I'm leaning slightly in Cap's favor. Both are highly skilled combatants, though Cap probably has an advantage in experience. I think Cap is definitely stronger and almost certainly faster, but Sheira's flight power balances that. She has her Nth metal mace, which is nasty, but Cap's shield is the perfect defense against that. I'd say Cap 7 times out of 10.

 

So, I think it goes like this:

 

ROUND 1:

Superman vs Thor - Stalemated

Batman vs Panther & Hawkeye - Batman takes out Hawkeye and Panther takes out Batman.

Wonder Woman vs Hulk - Hulk wins.

Martian Manhunter vs Vision - Stalemated

John Stewart vs Iron Man - Both eliminated

Flash vs. Ms. Marvel - Ms. Marvel wins

Hawkgirl vs Captain America - Captain America wins

 

ROUND 2: (Marvel characters begin to triple team)

Superman vs Thor & Hulk & Captain America

Martian Manhunter vs Vision & Ms. Marvel & Panther

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Flash in the tv show can hit light speed with no problem. Flash risks getting pulled into the speed force if he pulls on almost all of it like he did against Brainac/Lex Luthor.

 

What episode does he do this in? What episode is the Speed Force even mentioned in?

 

Vision isn't a fact as Martian Manhunter can take care of him easily.

 

How would he do this?

 

 

 

Ms.Marvel is a huge maybe since even Wonder Woman or Green Lantern could knock her out with ease.

 

. Ms. Marvel on the show had a high degree of invulnerability. Why do you say it's easy for them to knock her out?

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

1. Superman beats Thor. ( Superman on the JLU show is faster and stronger then AEMH's Thor if you take all his feats from the Superman Animated Series, JL, and JLU which are all in the same world. )

 

What feats are you referring to, specifically?

 

 

 

 2. Wonder Woman can definitely put down Ms.Marvel.

 

How? Stating your opinion and adding words like "definitely" or "easily" doesn't really offer any useful information.

 

 

 

4. Batman in the DCAU is strong enough to fight Croc, Bane, and even throw Superman on separate occasions.

 

Is your point that DCAU Batman has super strength? If so, you are mistaken.

 

He usually beats bane by tampering with his venom supply, he uses skill, not strength to beat Croc (who is much less powerful than Croc in the comics) and it doesn't take super strength to throw someone. An ordinary person who knows judo could throw Superman if they caught him by surprise.

 

 

 

3. Martian Manhunter easily shuts down the minds of Hawkeye and Black Panther with a telepathy attack. Martian Manhunter while doing that with no problem can beat Hulk.

 

Can you name an episode on which Martain Manhunter shuts down the minds of multiple opponents simultaneously? Can you name an episode where he even uses his telepathy as a weapon? And how does he beat the Hulk so easily?

 

 

 

5. The Flash can definitely beat Vision. With his speed force and multiple abilities he wins. Flash can figure out a way to beat Vision.

 

What multiple powers? And what episode mentions the Speed Force?

 

It looks as if what you're doing is assuming the DCAU characters have the same powers as the most powerful versions of their comic book counterparts. They don't.  

[Guest Incredible Hulk]

 

The other battle that I think it interesting comes in "The Terror Beyond." That episode features the odd teaming of Dr. Fate, Solomon Grundy, and Aquaman who are effectively standing in for the original Defenders: Dr. Strange, Hulk, and Namor. Superman takes on Grundy and, after a difficult battle, beats him. I think this is Bruce Timm's version of what would happen in a Supes-Hulk fight. I'm a big Hulk fight and think he has the potential to beat the man of Steel but, in this case, I think Timm got it right. IMO Superman wins something like 6 out of 10 matches.

I'll have to watch that episode but I think hulk would have a better chance than Grundy because he's a little bit more intelligent than Grundy, plus with rage/angry, his strength, durability, etc... will increase tenfold (I don't know if its tenfold literally but you get my point.) A great example of how much his strenth can in increase by rage is when Graviton, a master of gravity itself, was unable to halt the hulk. I'm not saying he would win for sure though.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Good point about Graviton.

[Dark Spider-man]

Flash went in to FTL or more when he fought Darkseid, he kept running around the world and punching off Darkseid's armor.  He was getting vibrating and getting pulled in to the speedforce, when he was pulled back by the JLA that was when he said he can go that fast again.   

[Guest Darxeth]

I think it's atough battle, but JL eventually pulls out the win.

 

Superman would stalemate Thor.

Hulk would lose to Green Lantern.

Wonder Woman would defeat Ms. Marvel, due to being far more skilled.

Martian Manhunter could stalemate Vision.

Flash would defeat Iron Man fairly easily.

 

Hawkgirl and Batman would lose to the rest, with Black Panther and Cap remaining, although injured badly.

 

The rest of the JL could take care of the remaining Avengers comfortably.

[C.T.]

I don't think it would go as you describe.

[Guest Darxeth]

Honestly, it's going to be close.

But..

 

Batman in TAS is pretty good at improvising.

He'd probably try to spread out the avengers, which would be easily done thanks to Green Lantern, who could take the driving force of the Avnegers as far as tactics go, (Captain America) and prevent the team from being as organized as the JL, who would probably be using Jon as a medium to give orders, which would effectively result in the Avengers being at a huge disadvantage,  despite having the greater numbers.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Flash went in to FTL or more when he fought Darkseid, he kept running around the world and punching off Darkseid's armor.  He was getting vibrating and getting pulled in to the speedforce, when he was pulled back by the JLA that was when he said he can go that fast again.   

 

what episode? I want to check it out.

[Dark Spider-man]

what episode? I want to check it out.

I mean't can't go that fast again, oh and it was Brainiac Luthor he fought.  >_> sorry.  Here it is.

 

[C.T.]

Just going by the way the fight lineup you made...

 

Thor and Supes would duel it out for a while.

 

Animated Green Lantern has not shown any of his more versatile powers. He basically sticks to three things, pure energy blasts, his energy shields and his constructs. None of which are really going to put down Hulk. His reaction to Gravitron was telling.

 

Wonder Woman vs Ms Marvel could go either way. From what I've seen Ms Marvel is stronger and more durable in this continuity. She's been acknowledged to be as "tough as Thor and almost as strong as the Hulk." Then she proves it. Whilst she's sick and dying of Red Skull's disease, she is able to enter into a prolonged brawl with a mind controlled Doc Samson and keep getting up multiple times. This is while she's dying! Also, Doc Samson in this show is said to be right behind Thor and Hulk in strength. Diana is more skilled but not enough to have a clear advantage, especially considering Carol's energy absorption and projection. I'd give it to Carol 6 or 7 outta 10.

 

Martian Manhunter vs Vision would be a cool fight. However, I'd think Vision has the advantage. J'onn was weakened in the show to give more spotlight to Supes. Moreover Vision is able to hold his own with Thor multiple times.

 

Flash defeating Iron Man. Only if he's on the ground. Otherwise Flash can't reach him and the normal punches Flash does aren't going to get through the armor. He can't go as fast as what he did with Luthor/Brainiac so that's out. Moreover Tony has various means of attack, not only on the suit he is wearing but also his remote controlled drones/suits.

 

Plus, while the League has a telepathic link, the Avengers have a technological one. A few in fact. Their ID cards, Jarvis and Vision. That counters that. Plus their equipment...the stuff Hawkeye and Panther carry around is advantageous as well.

[Guest Darxeth]

I suppose.

But GL doesn't have to knock him out to beat him, just contain him, along with the other members of the Avengers that pose little threat when captured.

 

After the rest of the Justice League take care of their battles, they could finish the rest contained by GL, assuming GL has enough willpower to hold them.

 

Honestly though, Hulk would probably break through GLs constructs pretty easily and pummel him down.

Flash could hit Iron Man hard and fast enough to make a huge difference in the battle.

Plus Iron Man would have a tough time hitting Flash.

 

And Hawkgirl is pretty tough, although she's probably the least useful member.

[Guest Darxeth]

In the 4th ep of JL, MM renders a dude unconcious with his telepathy with no effort, and he's done it a lot more throughout the series. He could probably do the same to Cap, BP, Iron Man, and all of the other human Avengers.