Justice League VS Avengers

[Guest Darxeth]

Actually, Hawkgirl is more useful than I thought.

in ep 5 of the JL, Hawkgirl was able to defeat 4 GLs by herself even without her mace. She could probably take out Hawkeye and Captain America alone.

[Guest Incredible Hulk]

Actually, Hawkgirl is more useful than I thought.

in ep 5 of the JL, Hawkgirl was able to defeat 4 GLs by herself even without her mace. She could probably take out Hawkeye and Captain America alone.

 

True but that's not really that much of a feat if you think about it. Two of the four lantern she got in a bar fight with weren't even humanoid and couldn't even really fight much as in hand-to-hand. The other two wouldn't be  near the fighting level of Cap or Hawkeye in hand-to-hand. They rely on their rings. They pretty much know only basic stuff of fighting

[C.T.]

Not if Iron Man caught Flash by surprise, perhaps by his invisible drones.

[Guest Incredible Hulk]

Not if Iron Man caught Flash by surprise, perhaps by his invisible drones.

 

Either way, in the OP it says neither team has any prep so his other armors wouldn't be a factor in this fight.

[C.T.]

He doesn't need prep to use those. He has Jarvis...

[Guest Incredible Hulk]

He doesn't need prep to use those. He has Jarvis...

 

The fight takes place on War World though, so he wouldn't have time to have time to prepare to have any other suits to be teleported with him besides the one he has on him to War World.

[C.T.]

But Jarvis would have all the time to do so while Tony is fighting.

[xLEGACYx]

Also remember in this fight that the characters can go all out.  Any killing blow or KO blow would remove the individual from the field.

[Guest Incredible Hulk]

But Jarvis would have all the time to do so while Tony is fighting.

 

War World is in a whole other multiverse though, so Tony won't even be able to contact Jarvis, even if he thinks of it, to order him to send the Armors. Even so, Iron hasn't used his multiple armors to fight foes before as far as we know. I'm not saying that he can't or wouldn't do it, it's just something that he hasn't been shown to normally do for a fight, if he has even done it at all in the Avengers: EMH universe. Also, Jarvis probably wouldn't think about sending the armors, even if he figured out a way to send them to the DCAU and had located where they were, since he hasn't done it before in dire situations over the course of Avengers: EMH.

[Guest Darxeth]

If both teams are going all-out then JL wins. MM would control every human and render them unconcious. The rest could be handled by the rest of the JL.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

I mean't can't go that fast again, oh and it was Brainiac Luthor he fought.  >_> sorry.  Here it is.

 

 

Impressive! I'd forgotten all about this episode.

 

If Flash could do this again I'd agree, he' could take down any of the Avengers. The only once who might have a chance to resist would be Thor, Hulk and Vision, but I'd give odds to Flash. As mentioned, it'd be pretty much a suicide attack.

 

BTW, I used the counter to clock Flash.

 

Begins at 0:19

Completes first circuit at 0:29 (10 seconds) which is 2489 miles per second (1.3% lightspeed)

completes second circuit at 0:39 (same speed)

completes third circuit at 0:49 (same speed) we start seeing the speed force effect on this lap 

completes fourth circuit at 0:55 (5 seconds) which is 4980 mps (2.7% lightspeed)

completes sixth circuit at 0.57 (2 seconds) which is 12,451 mps (6.7% lightspeed)

completes seventh circuit at 0.58 (1 second) which is 24,901 mps (13% lightspeed)

completes eighth circuit at 0.59 (est. 3/4 second) which is 33,200 mps (19% lightspeed)

completes ninth circuit at 0:59 (1/2 second) which is 49,800 mps (27% lightspeed)

completes final circuit at 1:02 (3 seconds) which is 8300 mps (4.5% lightspeed)

 

So he tops out at a little better than a quarter the speed of light, which is pretty freaking impressive but still well short of actual lightspeed. 

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

War World is in a whole other multiverse though, so Tony won't even be able to contact Jarvis

 

I agree that Tony would not be getting any new armors delivered in this set-up. 

 

But War World is a planet, not a multiverse.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Beating Flash in JL and JLU is not as hard as you'd expect. Hades, Star Sapphire and others have done it by blasting the ground in front of him causing him to trip and tumble. Even if you argue that Hades may have special perception or reflexes (though this is not stated or demonstrated) Star Sapphire does not.

 

There's no reason that Iron Man, Vision, or Ms. Marvel couldn't do the same.

[Guest Incredible Hulk]

I agree that Tony would not be getting any new armors delivered in this set-up. 

 

But War World is a planet, not a multiverse.

 

I didn't say it was a multiverse, I said it was in another multiverse, at least normally, which in this case would be the DCAU

 

EDIT: Sorry I meant "...which in this case would be the DC multiverse, in which the DCAU, where the cartoon war world, is located"

Edited April 16, 2013 by Incredible Hulk

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

In the 4th ep of JL, MM renders a dude unconcious with his telepathy with no effort, and he's done it a lot more throughout the series. He could probably do the same to Cap, BP, Iron Man, and all of the other human Avengers.

 

I just watched this. The League has gone to the planet where the Manhunters have their base and are fighting the alien guards. J'onn faces three of the guards. They are green-skinned humanoids with some kind of laser rifles. they appear to be roughly as strong and agile as humans.

 

J'onn moves in on the three while they are firing on the Javelin. One turns his fire on J'onn but the Martian goes intangible. When he is close enough he turns solid, picks the guard up and throws him at one of his comrades, knocking them both out. The remaining guard turns his rifle on J'onn but he goes unsolid again and sinks into the ground. A moment later, he rises from the ground and turns solid again. before the guard can react, J'onn grabs him by the collar, lifts him off his feet and locks eyes with him. His eyes glow for a moment, signalling that he is using his telepathy, and the guard goes to sleep.

 

There are several unanswered questions about this scene.

1) Does this alien species have a similar resistance to telepathy as humans? We don't know but this seems like a fairly reasonable assumption since they seem similar to humans in so many other ways. 

2) Why does J'onn get into very close range before using this attack? Does he need to touch someone to do this? That seems unlikely since his other telepathic abilities work at long ranges. Earlier in the episode he is able to read John Stewart's thoughts from a distant star system. That leads me to #3.

3) Why does J'onn deliberately make eye contact before using this power? Does he need to do this for some reason? Despite his glowing eyes, I doubt we are meant to understand his power as emanating from his eyes, especially since he sometimes closes his eyes when reading thoughts. My theory about this is that J'onn needs two things to make this attack work. He needs to be totally focused on the target and the target needs to be totally focused on him. I could be wrong, of course, but this would explain why J'onn only uses it on one of his opponents and why such a point is made of locking eyes.

 

It's hard to say, but there are several things we can say. First, this isn't an attack use very often which suggests it's less effective than his other attacks for some reason. Second, we never see him use it on multiple opponents. Third, it's not effortless. Once J'onn establishes contact, the man goes to sleep in about a second, but establishing contact appeared to require his whole focus.

 

There are some other unknowns here: we don't know if J'onn's telepathy could be resisted by a strong will, like Captain America, or someone who uses medatative disciplines, like the Panther.

 

We are left with more questions than answers about this, including what I think is the big question. If this is a highly effective weapon in combat, why does J'onn use it so seldom. My guess is that he doesn't use it because it's more difficult and less reliable than his physical attacks.

[Guest Darxeth]

Perhaps. But like I said, I'd only wager he'd use it often if they were going all out.

[Guest skadoosh]

Mrs Marvel and Vision would be able to hold their own for a while, but considering the various degrees of superior super-strength and speed that The Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter all possess i seriously doubt they could last that long. Also, they can't do much damage to most members of the Justice League, as they are either too fast to be hit by them or too durable to be harmed by them.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Mrs Marvel and Vision would be able to hold their own for a while, but considering the various degrees of superior super-strength and speed that The Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter all possess i seriously doubt they could last that long. Also, they can't do much damage to most members of the Justice League, as they are either too fast to be hit by them or too durable to be harmed by them.

 

In "The Enemy Below" Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter were knocked out by depth charges fired by the Atlantean ships.

 

Also in "The Enemy Below" Deadshot does surprisingly well against the Leaguers, stunning Superman with a trap that generates an electrical charge.  

 

In "In Justice for All" Star Sapphire knocks out the Flash. She fires a blast at the ground in front of him and he trips on it. Hades pulls the same trick on him in "Paradise Lost."

 

In Paradise Lost, Felix Faust stuns both Batman and Wonder Woman with a spell that resembles an electrical charge.

 

In "Injustice for All" in the prison break scene, Luminous conjures a bunch of his hard light duplicates who beat Flash senseless. They are not super strong or fast and overwhelm him by force of numbers. You can call this incident PIS (I would) but the truth is that he gets beat up a lot in JL and JLU and often by people you wouldn't think should be able to do it. It's not all PIS. The version in the cartoon is different than the Flash in the comics. The Wonder Woman in the cartoon is a different version, so are Superman, Martian Manhunter etc. They are not as powerful or invulnerable as their comic book counterparts.

 

Unless you're going to argue that Vision and Ms. Marvel are less powerful than things like depth charges and high-tension power lines, they can hurt Manhunter and Wonder Woman. Unless you're going to argue that they are much slower than Star Sapphire, Hades and Luminous, they have the potential to hit the Flash.

 

Honestly, this is a pretty even match. It's easy to make a case that the Justice League team wins, but it needs to be based on their observed performance in the series. Saying things like "none of the Avengers can hit the Flash" or "none of them is powerful enough to hurt Martian Manhunter" do not mesh with the performance seen in the show. The discussion needs to stick to their strengths and limits in the show, whether you agree with the show or not. It can't be what they ought to be like or what they're like in other media.

[xLEGACYx]

Two good showings for Supes is him vs Darkseid in two instances.  One he pummels his face in and the other he really cuts loose.

 

Two good showings for Flash are him vs justice lord Supes and Flash vs Brainiac.

 

On a separate note the animated Batman is pretty durable and powerful compared to the comic in general.  He dukes it out with characters stronger and faster.  He also seems to be able to take a good bit of punishment.

[C.T.]

Well one, Justice Lord Supes won against Flash and was about to kill him...and two, Flash can't go as fast as he did with Brainiac again.

 

As for Supes vs Darkseid, his chief advantage is speed. He said he cut loose, not so sure he did. Yeah, the speech was cool, and the shockwave but really, all the punch did was send Darkseid through a few buildings. He did that same thing with Captain Marvel in the show and I'm pretty sure he wasn't going all out then. But let's say he was going all out at Darkseid. Thor, Hulk, Ms Marvel, Vision can all take those kind of punches.

[Guest bigballerju]

Superman beat the crap out of Darkseid in the first Justice League series as well. Superman beat Darkseid in the DCAU twice. Also I don't remembers seeing anyone on the Avengers but Thor and Hulk cut loose against villains like Superman did in the DCAU when he got read angry. The first link is the first Darkseid fight and the second is Mongul.

 

 

[C.T.]

Well then you haven't watched much of the Avengers EMH series. Almost every single one of them cuts loose.

[Guest bigballerju]

Oh really what major physical battles did they have where there fighting through buildings, causing shockwaves (Superman vs Captain Marvel), and more? Where did they show Thor's speed is as fast as Superman, Marvel, and Flash in battle?

[C.T.]

There's a difference between causing all those things and cutting loose, ya know?

 

Iron Man in Uru armor vs Loki- he's going all out.

Hank Pym dueling with Frost Giants or the time he beat Thor with a single move.

Ms Marvel staggering Galactus with a flying punch, and an energy blast. Or getting the better of Ronan the Accuser. Or while sick, owning Doc Samson. Or matching Hulk in strength.

Wasp owning multiple Super Skrulls by shifting into all 3 sizes over the course of a fight. Small, normal, giant.

Vision owning Thor, Cap and Black Panther simultaneously. Or dropping from orbit at 500 ton density and smashing into Thor and creating a huge crater.

 

And you don't have to be as fast as them to hit them.

[baneblade]

One dream breakdown bros: Hulk sees star spangled tights, courtesy Manhunter, dreams on the beach, siesta etc. While Thor, and Vision hurl expletives like crazy while fending off WW, Superman and Flash, just as Stewart and iron man plow into each other. Tony holds up well, and tries to escape to knock sense into Hulk, who walks the field like a moron in a haze, as the battle rages on. Stewart being a cheat, rips open Tony's armour like a tin can, taking the cue, and goes onto Hawkeye who's trying to take a timed aim at Flash. Cap to Hulk: Banner, Hulk, in line soldier. You fu+++++ moron, what's wrong with you? Haven't you seen star spangled overalls before? Look, I have em'. Hulk in a haze : Hulk like.... stars... Nothing but.. stars... .

 

Thor: Mayhap, The Hulk thus be expelled from thy team Captain. Takes a stray blow from a concealed Manhunter in the process.

 

Avengers fall because of Hulk's lack of action, due to Manhunter's telepathy.

 

If that scenario won't happen, I will call these versions pretty equal.

If one team wins, it will be by a margin. I will wait and see other bros. posts and see how it goes.