Skirmisher Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Now on to this: 1. Zoom does not have human level reaction speed. Just look at this, here Zoom blocks Flash's 1000 super fast punches with one hand: http://img68.imageshack.us/i/z6zs5.jpg/Yet he was already in his slowed time when he did that. He had Already slowed time down so that he could do that. 2. This is because Zoom isn't a fast runner. He has limited time control at all times. He can't turn his powers off. He is ahead of time, and controls how it affects him. It sounds confusing, so I'll let Flash explain: http://img527.imageshack.us/i/flashv2200page08lj8.jpg/http://img149.imageshack.us/i/flashv2200page09bc6.jpg/And here we see why the Revans would win. It is explained that Zoom "Shifts Gears" in time to slow it down. He doesn't have any faster reaction times than a regular human, it's just that with a thought he can slow time down. The thing is though that Thought is based on Reaction. Zoom must react to the fact that the Match has started in order to think his power into effect. Jedi and Sith although not super fast at reaction times, are still leagues faster than a regular human, and as such would be able to React to the start of the match and think their powers into effect faster than Zoom. Seeing as how Zoom only needs a thought to activate his power, the Revans with their Precog visions will know that they need to Strike with Absolute Speed. And as such the first and last action they will need is to Force Strike Zooms Brain and turn it to mush. They have the advantage of knowing exactly who their opponent is and where he will be when the match starts, thanks to their precog, which will allow them to get the first strike in. That first strike is all they would need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Zreth, you used Super Buu + Gohan. That's different than just Super Buu.Are you sure, the name Super Buu covers all the versions of Super Buu in Canon. As a base rule we assume the strongest version of all our characters, like Janemba for instance. I don't see him as that fat tub of lard, I see him as the Red Demon that was kicking the crap out of Goku and Vegeta. Or Cell, I assume his perfect form unless otherwise stated. Wait, what? 1. First of all, Doomsday's powers don't work that way. He only gets a bit tougher, and a bit stronger. It's been explained here on CBUB Mythbusters: http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....20&start=20Actually that backs up what I have been saying. 2. Even if it did work that way, Doomsday has to die first. However, he's fused with Buu, who has the unatural ability to regenerate from even a speck of remains. How is Doomsday suppose to help there?No, Buus regeneration would actually speed up Doomsdays abilities. The moment that Buu would take a hit that would tear his body apart or a hit that would devastate him, he would regen with his Buu regen and then become immune to it with his Doomsday Evolution. Janemba hits him with a powerful Ki blast and it "cripples" Buu, he then regens and becomes immune to the that strength and weaker Ki Blasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry for some reason it quoted instead of editing the last post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Man Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 On Zoom: What? You're not getting it. By your logic, if I punched Zoom while his back was turned, then I'd hit him. That's not how it works. Manipulating time isn't a power he turns on, it's always on. He's removed from the timestream. In fact, it's the opposite of what you're saying. He has to think and focus in order to slow down, that's why he always talks in a blur. He's so fast because he taps into time instead of the speed force. On Buu: I see what you're trying to do, and honestly, I'm surprised. Super Buu is Buu without anyone but himself. As for Cell, that's different. He was literally created to join with 17 and 18 in order to achive his completed form. Still, I see your logic. In that case, Amazo has become his golden version (after copying everyone in the Universe, or at least enough), and pwns your whole team. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 On Zoom: What? You're not getting it. By your logic, if I punched Zoom while his back was turned, then I'd hit him. That's not how it works. Manipulating time isn't a power he turns on, it's always on. He's removed from the timestream. In fact, it's the opposite of what you're saying. He has to think and focus in order to slow down, that's why he always talks in a blur. He's so fast because he taps into time instead of the speed force.From those scans you showed, it seems that he puts himself into different speeds of Time Flow. As it was stated, "He changes Gears" or something to that effect. As for Punching him while his back was turned... Well, if he were in one of his slower "gears" of time flow and he didn't see the punch coming, then all reason states that he should be hit with the punch. But the basic fact is that as long as either one of the Revans can see him they can kill him. From all the scans you've shown, unless in one of his Faster "Gears" he is plainly visible and thus can be targeted and killed. On Buu: I see what you're trying to do, and honestly, I'm surprised. Super Buu is Buu without anyone but himself. As for Cell, that's different. He was literally created to join with 17 and 18 in order to achive his completed form. Still, I see your logic. In that case, Amazo has become his golden version (after copying everyone in the Universe, or at least enough), and pwns your whole team. Nuff said.That my be the case, but Horus will be his undoing. Once he attempts to copy the Full weight of the power that Horus has been given by the Chaos Gods, his body, mind and (if he has one) Soul will be rent asunder. Remember Horus only stays alive with the power of Chaos because the Chaos Gods keep him alive. Without their support that power would rip any being apart in less than a second. But also, after all that wasn't he essentially a Good Guy? And therefore not eligible for your team? So I would say that he would be a his maximum potential from when he was still a bad guy. IIRC that was Pre-Godlike being Amazo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zreth Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I looked over Fusion Reborn and I found that Janemba has a intresting weakness when he is insulted or teased his body begins to fall apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Man Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I looked over Fusion Reborn and I found that Janemba has a intresting weakness when he is insulted or teased his body begins to fall apart.No prior knowledge means that's completely useless. As for seeing Zoom, let me fix that. Here, Zoom blitzes Jay Garrick, the first Flash. He's moving so fast that he doesn't even see a blur. http://img511.imageshack.us/i/18156755sr8.jpg/http://img77.imageshack.us/i/86872123hk5.jpg/http://img77.imageshack.us/i/50327874tx7.jpg/ This is even more impressive once you realize that Jay, being a Flash, can see things at a much slower pace than regular humans. As for Amazo, he was definetly not a hero. In fact, during his few appearances, Amazo only fought heroes, threatened planets, etc. And if this is indeed transcended Amazo, then he no longer copies others' abilities. He can bend time & space, even reality (to a degree). He easily beats the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 No prior knowledge means that's completely useless. As for seeing Zoom, let me fix that. Here, Zoom blitzes Jay Garrick, the first Flash. He's moving so fast that he doesn't even see a blur. http://img511.imageshack.us/i/18156755sr8.jpg/http://img77.imageshack.us/i/86872123hk5.jpg/http://img77.imageshack.us/i/50327874tx7.jpg/ This is even more impressive once you realize that Jay, being a Flash, can see things at a much slower pace than regular humans. As for Amazo, he was definetly not a hero. In fact, during his few appearances, Amazo only fought heroes, threatened planets, etc. And if this is indeed transcended Amazo, then he no longer copies others' abilities. He can bend time & space, even reality (to a degree). He easily beats the team.:For Zoom Those scans are impressive, which is why the Revans would fear him, and would work together to defeat him. It is also why I have been saying that they would have to take him out with their first hit, and that the first hit must be a killing hit. But there is the fact that there is a good chance that he will not be in his slowed time. Whatever starts the fight will take some time, he will have to wait just like everyone else. And waiting while time is slowed or stopped would be a literal eternity. As well, since he does not have any sort of Precog, he will not know when the match will start before it actually starts. The Revans will and when "the bell rings" the Revans will have the edge over Zoom, as he is still reacting to "the bell" in his slowed down state. :For Amazo The only Amazo that achieved such a state as you have described was most definitely not a villain. A little confused as to his place in the universe, and as such seemed threatening. As well, since he was so powerful and set on an objective, he didn't really care about the things that got in his way. But if a villain, he would have destroyed everything that got in his way... yet he didn't. That planet he destroyed, didn't, he just moved it out of his way, and when asked nicely he moved it back. Did he kill or hurt Anyone? No, he just accidentally scared the sh!t out of everyone. Then somewhat Happy with his answer, he went on his way with Dr. Fate to find his destiny... That is not Villainous... Now, every other Amazo out there was a villain, yet only this one Amazo ever achieved such power, and that power made him Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treacherous Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Is somebody going to break this tie between these two? and where the crap is Artemis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Man Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well, I'm losing again. I won't surrender though. Alright, I've got this thing solved. On Amazo, you said this: That may be the case, but Horus will be his undoing. Once he attempts to copy the Full weight of the power that Horus has been given by the Chaos Gods, his body, mind and (if he has one) Soul will be rent asunder. Remember Horus only stays alive with the power of Chaos because the Chaos Gods keep him alive. Without their support that power would rip any being apart in less than a second. I debated this point by showing you how ascended Amazo doesn't copy anyone anymore. You then debated that the Amazo which reached that level of power wasn't evil. I'll debate that in a moment, but first I must say one thing. Even if we use an evil Amazo, maybe the evil one which copied all of Earth's hero (Comic version), he's still taking this. Your reply to regular Amazo was this: Next is Hood v Rulk v Horus. I say Horus wins as he doesn't just have Magic to back him up, he has very powerful Psychic attacks (Not just Telepathy, but extreme TK), If Horus uses magic, then Amazo's not copying him, thus avoiding the painful death. That said, I still think the golden Amazo was a villain, and certainly didn't do anything heroic. In fact, he carelessly threatened the Earth, and the Green Lantern Corps nearly destroyed the Earth in hopes that Amazo would die. Also, he killed Red Tornado! (Early) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeB94IfnYLQ...feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 If Horus uses magic, then Amazo's not copying him, thus avoiding the painful death. That said, I still think the golden Amazo was a villain, and certainly didn't do anything heroic. In fact, he carelessly threatened the Earth, and the Green Lantern Corps nearly destroyed the Earth in hopes that Amazo would die. Also, he killed Red Tornado! (Early) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeB94IfnYLQ...feature=relatedAre you saying that he will not copy Horus' magic because he already has magic? Because I have never seen Warp Based magic in DC... As for not doing anything Heroic... well, aside from acting aggressive while tracking his objective (Lex (and who wouldn't be pissed at lex)) moving a planet, knocking a few head around, and destroying an Robot... He didn't do anything Evil either. In fact he was only afraid, and pissed off at Lex, and that was the only reason he was acting this way. Then a little talking later and he has a very amicable and benign disposition. Villain I think not, nor would I call him a Hero, but I believe that in later episodes he actually acted "Heroic" in a sense. The last part of your video, with the Happy Ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Man Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Are you saying that he will not copy Horus' magic because he already has magic? Because I have never seen Warp Based magic in DC...No. He simply doesn't try/can't copy the un-logical thing known as magic. He's still a robotic android. If it's present, then Amazo simply doesn't copy it. As for not doing anything Heroic... well, aside from acting aggressive while tracking his objective (Lex (and who wouldn't be pissed at lex))At the time, Lex had just reformed from villainy. Later on, he went on to run for President. Still, he is a villain, but does that mean he should be killed? If Superman killed him, he's still a hero right? After all, no one likes Lex... *sarcasm* moving a planet, knocking a few head around, and destroying an Robot...Red Tornado is still a person! He was laser blasted into two pieces! Which then exploded! To make matters worse, what about all those people operating the Javelins (the JLA's space fleet). All those ships had been destroyed, what happen to them? Or S.T.R.I.P.E.S (the guy in the robot suit)? He's just a regular human in a suit, those blasts should've killed him. Heck, even Superman was in danger. He can't breath in space. What would've happened if his suit had been damaged? Amazo clearly didn't care. He didn't do anything Evil either. In fact he was only afraid, and pissed off at Lex, and that was the only reason he was acting this way. Then a little talking later and he has a very amicable and benign disposition. Villain I think not, nor would I call him a Hero, but I believe that in later episodes he actually acted "Heroic" in a sense. The last part of your video, with the Happy Ending.Later on he blasted Solomon Grundy, but later left. After that, he doesn't show up again. As for that last clip, how is that a happy ending? Amazo had literally become so powerful and intelligent that he was questioning his own existence. Lex merely thought on his feet and saved his skin. Fate too, admitted that he needed to remove Amazo from earth in order to save it. When the Earth is in danger, there's a villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinDWolf93 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Is somebody going to break this tie between these two? and where the crap is Artemis? I gave my vote to skirmisher. As for art. U try PMing him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 At the time, Lex had just reformed from villainy. Later on, he went on to run for President. Still, he is a villain, but does that mean he should be killed? If Superman killed him, he's still a hero right? After all, no one likes Lex... *sarcasm*Does Amazo know that Lex has reformed? Would he even Trust that he has Reformed? Besides Lex is still an arrogant a$$. As well, his state of mind at that time was afraid and looking for answers, it was actually unlikely that he would have killed Lex without a very good reason, and I think that Dr.Fate knew that too. Red Tornado is still a person! He was laser blasted into two pieces! Which then exploded! To make matters worse, what about all those people operating the Javelins (the JLA's space fleet). All those ships had been destroyed, what happen to them? Or S.T.R.I.P.E.S (the guy in the robot suit)? He's just a regular human in a suit, those blasts should've killed him. Heck, even Superman was in danger. He can't breath in space. What would've happened if his suit had been damaged? Amazo clearly didn't care.It's unfortunate to make this argument, but would you care about an Ant that runs under your foot? Or the Wasp that stings you? This is apparently the mindset that Amazo has at that time, and while it would make him seem Villainous, he never actually went out of his way to try and kill any of them. Had he truly been a Villain then Every Hero he had faced would have been killed outright. Oa wouldn't have been just moved out of the way, it truly would have been obliterated. And he would not have let Lex get even a word in. Now lets deal with your apparent Deaths... Red Tornado is an Android, and as such was easily re-built without any problem. Amazo with his nigh-omnipotence and such would have known that. As for the ships, well, their cockpits still seemed intact as the Green Lanterns were moving them to safety... why would they concentrate on moving junk over pursuing Amazo unless that junk still had live pilots in them. As for Stripes, well the same goes for him as well since the main body of his "Mech" was only disabled. Later on he blasted Solomon Grundy, but later left. After that, he doesn't show up again. As for that last clip, how is that a happy ending? Amazo had literally become so powerful and intelligent that he was questioning his own existence. Lex merely thought on his feet and saved his skin. Fate too, admitted that he needed to remove Amazo from earth in order to save it. When the Earth is in danger, there's a villain.When did he say that? He only said "I can help you on your journey, and your search for meaning." Amazo asks him why and he states "Because, that is my purpose." then they leave for his tower. As for him potentially destroying the Earth, well it may have been like what happened with Grundy. He attempted to stop the Villain, but inadvertently powered him up. Stopping the Villain is a key part of being Heroic... Failing to stop the Villain does not make him a villain, it just makes him fallible. He apparently left because he didn't want to cause any more destruction through his accidents, a truly Non-Villainous course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treacherous Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 The end! This round is over. You can continue to vote, but it won't count in the competition. Congratulations Skirmisher you have proved to have the best Doom-led team. You will now move on to the finals round. We are almost to the end to find out who has the Perfect Team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Man Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Ha! The votes are now 5 to 5. I demand a rematch, or at least, another Treacherous Team competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomisntblue Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Ha! The votes are now 5 to 5. I demand a rematch, or at least, another Treacherous Team competition. Without reading anything other than the above comment, I have voted. Marvel Man, you are the winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Not just a spam bot, but an evil necromantic one! Cleanse it with fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treacherous Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Not just a spam bot, but an evil necromantic one! Cleanse it with fire! Necromancer!! Why am I just now reading this too? You know I won the Perfect Team (Heroes) tournament. I wonder how Sirmethos would've fared back then against everybody? Hell, I would've been mad. I hate having to waste too many brain cells on things I'm not completely invested in. I would've had to dig deep to try to screw over Sirmethos into thinking I won like I did everyone else. What I love is that every now and then, I go back to check on those Perfect Team matches. People are still voting on them. Hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest a guy Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Awesome thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSkillz Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 More thread necro... But yeah, this was a good topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xman4life Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 mark me down for the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVP vs The Terminator Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Yeah, I'm sure there'll be a next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Only been 3 years compadre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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