Guest thanosisawesome Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Avengers_216-16.jpg.htmlhttp://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Avengers_216-17.jpg.htmlhttp://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Avengers_216-18.jpg.htmlHe's also beaten Korvac, who is more powerful than anyone you've mentioned in your post. It happened in Cap vol. 3 #17-19. Korvac beat Cap hundreds of times, each time, sending him back in time to relive his defeat. Cap got back up every time and eventually kicked the shit out of someone who could take Galactus and Eternity. Lol. The Doomsday clones from S/B weren't anywhere near as powerful as the original Doomsday, shown by the fact that they were taken out by explosive batarangs. Nice try though. BlackBriar Thorn isn't much of a physical fighter. Still, I would like to know how, and the context. Cryo? Batwing? Batmobile? Has he ever won? Also, Metallo isn't that impressive if you're not vulnerable to Kryptonite. Twist feat, this Amazo was nowhere near as powerful as the one the JLA fought. He was incapacitated by a pack of C4. Not impressive at all. More feat-twisting. First of all, Black Adam defeated all 4 by HIMSELF. Second of all, Batman fought Pestilence, and defeated him by injecting him with morphine. Yep, real impressive there, lol. He defeated the Spectre? Really? I want to hear more about this. Men trained to take down Superman? There have been a lot of men trained to take down Superman, they're usually not very succesful, also, that could just mean they have kryptonite/red sun based weaponry. Not very impressive unless I know more. Well, if he's using a suit, then it's not very impressive. Hell, it wouldn't be impressive without the suit, the fact that he needed a suit makes it pathetic. They're a bunch of unknowns within the League of Assassins, with absolutely no feats to speak of. That's bs. The only post crisis fight with Composite Superman he told CS that he couldn't be everywhere at once and that psychological crack sent him fleeing. Batman didn't fight off CS at all.Scans please. They were fighting Superman. Nowhere near as powerful, yes. Very impressive, yes. Thorn was trying to blast Batman and he one-shotted him with a batarang. Batman took his heart out with a steel rod in some Superman Batman annual. That is still very impressive, and Batman has fought and beaten Amazo before then, which I will post if necessary. I didn't twist the feat. I didn't post clearly to be fair. The Horseman was on Black Adam level, and Batman took him down. Simple as that. No, not the Spectre, Eclipso. Batman saves Joker from him. The one he took down was named Hotshot, and was armed with equipment that gave him Superman speed. He attempted to blitz Batman and got taken down with one punch. No they aren't, they were the Sensei's bodyguard, and Batman literally dropped them in seconds. Wrong again. Batman fights him in Superman Batman annual 3, and severely injures him by reflecting his heat vision back at him, causing him to flee. I noticed you weren't able to counter Batman's victory over MM, WW, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash, most of whom could solo 99% of the people you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Are you on crack? Amazo would destroy the Wrecking Crew, the Horsemen on Black Adam power level would wreck Blastaar, Namor, or any of the others except for Molecule Man. Aquaman would kill Scorpion easily. Hell, Martian Manhunter could solo every single one of the people you mentioned that Cap has beat. And Batman has beaten him numerous times, any of which I will supply.Except that isn't the Amazo that the Justice League fought, actually read the comics your referencing. That Amazo was taken out by some C4. The Wrecking Crew would laugh if someone detonated C4 on them. You mean the Horseman that Batman beat with a shot of freaking morphine? The one that even Black adam killed casually? The only Horseman that he had trouble with was Death. Batman has never defeated Manhunter in straight combat, and Manhunter wouldn't even be able to put up a fight against Korvac or Molecule Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Scans please. They were fighting Superman. Nowhere near as powerful, yes. Very impressive, yes. Thorn was trying to blast Batman and he one-shotted him with a batarang. Batman took his heart out with a steel rod in some Superman Batman annual. That is still very impressive, and Batman has fought and beaten Amazo before then, which I will post if necessary. I didn't twist the feat. I didn't post clearly to be fair. The Horseman was on Black Adam level, and Batman took him down. Simple as that. No, not the Spectre, Eclipso. Batman saves Joker from him. The one he took down was named Hotshot, and was armed with equipment that gave him Superman speed. He attempted to blitz Batman and got taken down with one punch. No they aren't, they were the Sensei's bodyguard, and Batman literally dropped them in seconds. Wrong again. Batman fights him in Superman Batman annual 3, and severely injures him by reflecting his heat vision back at him, causing him to flee. I noticed you weren't able to counter Batman's victory over MM, WW, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash, most of whom could solo 99% of the people you mentioned.The feat is listed on the Cap respect thread I linked, but the accompanying picture leads to a 404 not found error. I gave you the exact context and specific issues, you can research further by yourself. Sorry, 5 were taken out by a single explosive batarang, and Superman was cutting a huge swath through them with one heat vision blast and he wasn't even trying, it's not even slightly impressive, none of the people I listed in my posts would even be phased by an explosive batarang. Even comcivine lists them as "vastly inferior". Scans or issue number/story arc or some context at all. Again, the thing that makes Metallo dangerous to Superman is the kryptonite. In Public Enemies, Batman simply took a batarang to an exposed circuit to shut him down. Green Arrow also beat him relatively easily. No, it was an inferior model, a different version than the one that fought the Justice League, it wasn't impressive at all, and the only other time Batman's fought "Amazo" was Kid Amazo, who he defeated using a logic error. First of all, Black adam defeated Pestilence easily, with one shot of another Horseman's weapon. The only one who he had real trouble with was death. And second of all, injecting someone with morphine isn't impressive. That could mean anything. Did he actually fight Eclipso? Because I'm looking all over Google and such and I can't find any mention of him actually beating Eclipso in combat. He definitely does not have the speed of Superman, more feat twisting. Not very surprising there. He wears a suit that lets him fly and maneuver in the air. And yes, I was right, they do have Kryptonite/Red Sun weaponry. Hotshot wields two Kryptonite blades. That's how they were "prepped" to take down Superman, not because they're as powerful. Also, you conveniently left out the part where Batman DOESN'T beat Hotshot, and is in fact, is knocked out by Hotshot and taken to Amanda Waller. Nice. I'm pretty sure I can find a scan of Cap beating some unknown, no feat, "highly skilled" assassins in seconds too. Yeah, that didn't drive him off, it barely stunned him. CS was only defeated by this: Yes, I did. Mainly that they didn't expect him, and thus weren't trying. When Cap beat Thor, for example, Thor was fully aware of what he was capable of, he didn't undersell him. In fact, Thor probably knew more about Cap's capabilities than almost anyone else, what with being on the Avengers and all. If Batman fought them a second time after that, he would've been stomped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Cap beating Thor is PIS.You're telling me a guy who has ftl reflexes was defeated by a guy who was killed by a sniper. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 He jumped in front of that bullet, what is it with people not actually reading the comics they reference? Even then, it took multiple shots from a pistol at point blank range to actually put him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 and this justifies him taking a hammer from a guy with ftl reflexes how? I read the comics (Although not all 18 issues) and I know the details. He was taken out by a cheap shot and then finished off by a brainwashed Sharon. However, once that bullet hit him, regardless of how it hit him, he was pretty much done for. And thus, if he can't stand a few bullets at point blank range, how is he going to withstand hits from Thor and the like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 You know, he has this thing, it's called a shield. It's pretty durable, probably the most durable thing in the Marvel Universe actually, and Cap uses it to, here's the big catch, he uses it to block hits. Crazy, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Yeah.. except, Thor has powers.. ya know, like faster than light speed reflexes. Cap isn't fast enough to react to ftl attacks, at least, not to my knowledge. Also, how did Cap take his hammer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Just because he has the ability to swing his hammer FTL doesn't mean he constantly fights at a faster than light speed, that's ridiculous. Superman uses his super speed rarely, same thing with Thor, speed-blitzing just isn't something they do very often. Most people know this. Umm, he grabbed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 He grabbed it from Thor? Interesting. Strong dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Actually Supes speed blitzes quite often now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 a 7 page argument when whether anyone wants to admit it or not, its a 50/50 fight all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thanosisawesome Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I think that in the end it comes down to whether gadgets and skill tip it in Batman's favor, or physical power tips it in Captain America's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Batman has the skill to end it quick but if he doesnt Cap wins. Caps physical attributes make it an almost even playing field against Bats skills Its the endurance that gives Cap an advantage. If he draws out the fight, Bats gets tired long before Cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Except no one has demonstrated that Batman is significantly more skilled than Captain America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thanosisawesome Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Except no one has demonstrated that Batman is significantly more skilled than Captain America.While 127 martial arts doesn't entail more skill per say, it does entail a more extensive knowledge base, as well as a larger move set to pull from. Both have created their own style, so no advantage there. As far as I know, Captain America hasn't demonstrated many nerve strikes/pressure points, while Batman has, and has used them to good effect on the likes of Solomon Grundy and Wonder Woman. As you stated, both have won victories over equally proficient martial artists, so no points there. But Batman has martial skills such as reading muscle movements, and knowing all sorts of mental techniques. He can fight a battle in his head (think Sherlock Holmes in Game of Shadows) and exercise absolute control over his body. All this puts him over Cap skill wise, unless you have some major Captain America martial arts feats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 As you stated, both have won victories over equally proficient martial artists, so no points there.This is the only thing that matters in effective combat skill-- i.e, how well you actually do in combat. It doesn't matter if you know 127 different arts and fancy pressure points, what matters is who you can beat, so this is the only stat that counts. When people bet on UFC or Boxing fights, they don't bet on what techniques the fighters know, they bet on their record. So this indicates that Cap and Bats are even in skill. But just for giggles, Cap has used pressure points and joint strikes on The Hulk, and not a Hulk that's holding back his powers like Wonder Woman in a sparring match, this is an actual combat situation. Joint strikes. Not how Hulk is "faster and meaner" than ever before, that's because he was enraged by Nightmare prior to the fight. Then there's the famous scan of him using joint strikes against Professor Hulk to flip him outside of a door, but I don't have that one on me right now, I'll look. Captain America also has absolute control over his own body and has mental techniques to use. Another feat also. He beat Nightmare in his own realm. Nightmare, who, in his own realm, is nearly omnipotent and made Hulk scream like a little bitch. Also, there's the fact that Batman just wouldn't be able to put Cap down, even if he was better. Unless Cap hits harder than a sniper round + 5 bullets to the chest + getting sent back in time and left to die, or a full on beating by Extremis Iron Man, or getting shot through the goddamn skull, then Cap'll just get up again. Eventually Batman will be worn down. There is literally no one in the MU (except maybe Spidey) with a greater willpower. Bats just wouldn't be able to knock him out. "I can do this all day." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLEGACYx Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Except no one has demonstrated that Batman is significantly more skilled than Captain America.Fighting wise the evidence is all over the comics. Its not worth providing examples. Batman has shown superior skill multiple times. Cap has shown superior physical attributes many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I don't see what the problem is. Everything everyone has stated has pointed to Cap winning handily against Batman.And there's nothing to show Batman would win in a straight up fight. With prep, it's possible, depending on how much he knows about Cap. But in this particular case (Bats vs Cap)Everything points to Cap winning. Batman could try to lure him into a improv trap but he would have to tactically outthink Cap, which he simply cannot do, from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Batman is slightly more skilled.But.. Cap is stronger, faster, more durable and resilient, and is able to improvise better than probably everyone in the MU. (Though, that's debatable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thanosisawesome Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I don't see what the problem is.Everything everyone has stated has pointed to Cap winning handily against Batman.And there's nothing to show Batman would win in a straight up fight.With prep, it's possible, depending on how much he knows about Cap. But in this particular case (Bats vs Cap)Everything points to Cap winning.Batman could try to lure him into a improv trap but he would have to tactically outthink Cap, which he simply cannot do, from what I've seen.How? Captain America is stronger, but I haven't seen evidence to show a massive advantage here, since Batman has the larger bench and his own share of good strength feats. Speed wise, the Captain America feat of moving across the room and blocking bullets is more impressive than any speed feat Batman has, but again, Batman has plenty of speed feats putting him not that far below Cap's speed. But then you look at Batman's advantages. He is more skilled than Captain America for all the reasons previously stated, and people seem to agree on that. Then, look at his equipment advantage. Firstly, both wear armor, but all the evidence points to Batman's being superior. What happens if Captain America grabs Batman and gets 200,000 volts run through him? Any weapon like explosive or sonic batarangs could wear down/distract Cap, setting him up for the knockout. What if Batman hits him with cryo pellets, freezing him to the ground? All these gadgets will tip the battle in Batman's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Yes, the strength and Speed advantages aren't enough to give Cap the win alone. However, Cap's physical and mental resilience is. You couple that with his shield and it renders most of Batman's gadgets useless. Sure, Bats could do that, but Cap has shrugged off things worse than those without too much trouble.Explosive and cryo batarangs would probably prove the most useful and would win him the fight if he could tag Cap consistently and often enough. But I don't see that happening so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thanosisawesome Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Yes, the strength and Speed advantages aren't enough to give Cap the win alone. However, Cap's physical and mental resilience is.You couple that with his shield and it renders most of Batman's gadgets useless. Sure, Bats could do that, but Cap has shrugged off things worse than those without too much trouble.Explosive and cryo batarangs would probably prove the most useful and would win him the fight if he could tag Cap consistently and often enough. But I don't see that happening so..Batman has ones-shotted Deathstroke, an enhanced soldier with a healing factor and nth metal armor. It was a cheap shot, but that shows that he can put down Cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darxeth Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Scans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thanosisawesome Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Scans?Here you go. batstroke_sneak1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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