Guest bigballerju Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Infinite Mass Punch would be useless against Sandman. Sandman's entire body is sand and he is almost always in sand form. Speed stealing is useless here with the amount of sand in the desert and what purpose does running at light speed serve Wally? Actually if you know Wally he doesn't jump to light speed unless he really needs it. Also the only PIS moment for Wally I know of is that Identity Crisis one. That's it.What other ways does Flash have to beat him in a desert? Sandman could literally make it hard for Flash to run and pull him under the sand then bury him easily before he even gets a couple of feet. You add in the fact in a entire desert Sandman can form all sorts of crazy figures, shape shiftiing with the sand, and more. Sandman has way more ways to win. Spiderman only beat Sandman in the desert because he had prep and brought a special device he used to beat Sandman. Even then that almost failed and it would have if he didn't have help from Silver Sable in using the device on Sandman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergy_Berg Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 As I said: I was assuming an unrestricted Wally since he was approved, if there are limits placed on him then things might change. However he doesn't need the infinite mass punch to win; he can get the same result through other means.I would assume he's not the most powerful version. From what I can gather of Wally at his best, he's well above the anchor slot.That is, of course, an assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega11 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 bigballerju you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Sandman will not only be able to track Wally's movements, but also react in time to do something about it. Worst case scenario here for Flash if you handicap him extremely is a draw: neither party being able to defeat the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Wrong Flash can be buried under massive amounts of sand in the desert until he is unable to move. Sandman doesn't have to react fast enough. Look at where their fighting. A huge desert where it doesn't matter where Flash runs. Sandman can be anywhere and control the desert to his liking. Flash needs something too run on right? Yeah well hard to run on sand if Sandman controls it and can make it impossible for him to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirmethos Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Flash doesn't actually need something to run on. He ran into space, he just needed a ramp to get him moving upwards. Also, how is Sandman going to bury him, when he(flash) is never where Sandman dumps the sand? And finally, Flash can go intangible by vibrating, easy way to get out if he does get buried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Ah good Methos. Let's get to it. Flash doesn't actually need something to run on. He ran into space, he just needed a ramp to get him moving upwards. This I don't remember him running in space without help and needing a ramp. I will look it up and see for myself. Then comment on it. I'm blanking at the moment but I think I know what run your talking about where it happened. I remember even Pre- Crisis Flash needed something to run on. That's why in the air he use to vibrate so he could fly himself or float through the air. Something like that. Also, how is Sandman going to bury him, when he(flash) is never where Sandman dumps the sand? Easy their in a desert. Sandman can pull him down or suck him down similar to what quicksand does. Sandman doesn't actually have to dump the sand to get him at first. Sandman can pull him down through the sand and this bury him under it. Wally starts out running at regular speeds. Sandman can do it. And finally, Flash can go intangible by vibrating, easy way to get out if he does get buried. True but Sandman can counter that but continuing to bury him if Flash tries to vibrate through the massive amounts of sand. Sandman has a whole desert of sand to get sand from and bury him. There is only so much that Flash would be able to vibrate through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega11 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Quicksand? Flash can run across water, quicksand isn't going to slow him down. And you're still assuming Sandman will be able to react to Flash. He won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Hibiki Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Has everyone already forgoten that Wally beat Lex/Braniac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badpierce Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Does Flash not need to breath? How can he run in space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergy_Berg Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Has everyone already forgoten that Wally beat Lex/Braniac? So, this is DCAU Flash? The one who's had trouble running down a car and has been hit by regular humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest force_echo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 What? He doesn't have to have the same reaction speed as Flash if the entire battlefield moves, there is literally nowhere for Flash to evade to unless he runs out of the desert, which I assume would be a BFR. He can vibrate out of course, but enough of this shit and Flash is going to get tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 To add to what Force said. Captain Cold, Piper, and all his other villains have all managed to attack Flash with their weapons successfully. I'm pretty sure Sandman could do the same. I don't think you understand Flash is not going to start off running on air nor has he ever just done so occasionally like that. Flash runs at normal speeds at the start. Flash will start running on the sand. Reaction speed has nothing to do with Sandman just pulling him under since Flash will start off running at normal speeds. Sandman can turn everything under Flash to a quicksand like form and pull him under. Their in a big vast desert and with no other place to run. Sooner or later Sandman will grab Flash from underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega11 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The Rouges manage to hit Flash because of comic mechanics. It would be a very boring superhero comic if there were no villains who lasted more than one panel. It doesn't matter if the sand is moving or not, Wally can run over it the same way he runs over water: by being extremely fast. If Wally can run for 10 days straight at multiples of the speed of light then I doubt he'll get tired before Sandman, particularly if Sandman is trying to manipulate the entire desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigballerju Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Except like Force said he can't leave the desert so Flash can run around all he wants but Sandman has the whole entire desert at his disposal. Seriously Sandman could just wait it out and when Flash starts to slow down he then takes advantage of it. I don't think your taking into fact the different shapes, transformations, sand attacks, and more Sandman can do as well with a entire desert. The quicksand was just one way. Sandman has many ways to keep making Flash run around and tire himself out. Either that or Sandman attacks in all sorts of ways until eventually he catches Flash. Running at light speed here would be useless here. It serves him no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Pymp(mex) Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 We seem to forget one thing, DC sucks haha jk, but they did mess up the Flash big time. Stealing someone's speed? That doesn't make sense, as seed is created by moving your legs, so he can now paralyze you? Thats basically saying his powers are not super speed anymore, but kinetic energy absortion and even that is a lame power to have in comics The Flash needs to breathe, period. Try reving up your car in sand let alone travel fast in circles it will create dust clouds and guess what, those little particles will get in his lungs and if we do literal power definitions Sandman can manipulate all sand, so he can just use that sand dust cloud to kill him.By definition Sandman should be incredibly powerful, the writers do this for entertainment only. It baffles me how people will get all scientific and try to be logical when the science and logic behind comics are flawed to begin with.DC's Flash is laughable for the following reasons:Flash running on air, how does that make sense?Stealing speed? thats laughable, DC reminds me of the comics in the newspaper, a gag cartoon that uses more toon powers than actual cool powers. Marvel is the same, but they are more realistic if thats even the word to use. It is like DC said, "hey lets just add powers to the Flash to sell more comics" which means they dont' care about what is what like we do here.Speed Force? thats also just plain ridiculus. I can't talk crap, but based on what everyone said, Flash still loses due to the more he runs the more dust will form and since Sandman can manipulate it, he can use it to create a tornado so big and fast that it cuts him. I mean today we use sandblasters to tear heavy duty things like steel etc.Flash will need to run away to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainboa Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 snip Stealing someone's speed? That doesn't make sense, as seed is created by moving your legs, so he can now paralyze you? Thats basically saying his powers are not super speed anymore, but kinetic energy absortion and even that is a lame power to have in comics Actually, his power technically isn't super speed, it's acting as the conduit for the Speed Force, which gives him super speed, among other things.A bit of research about the character you're talking about Could save you from spouting off ignorant bullshit, but then again you tend to do that so I doubt research would do anything. The Flash needs to breathe, period. No, he really doesn't, he can sustain himself via the speed force. Flash running on air, how does that make sense? The speed force allows him to do so. If this is full powered flash, then Sandman stands no chance of winning, if Flash is de-powered to fit into the category, then Sandman wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nrdman Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Well, he does need to fit in the category, so that settles that. Sandman wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMPIRE Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 Match Final ResultsFlash (Wally West): 11Sandman (Marvel): 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badpierce Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Wow I thought it would at least be closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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