2:3 - Saint of Killers vs. Black Adam

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 2, ROUND 3

Saint of Killers

Slot: The teams OH SHIT! button

Season Wins: 0

Season Losses: 0

Fantasy Team Page

Read more about Saint of Killers at Wikipedia

Official Site: Vertigo Comics

 

Black Adam

Slot: The teams OH SHIT! button

Season Wins: 0

Season Losses: 0

Fantasy Team Page

Read more about Black Adam at Wikipedia

Official Site: D.C. Comics

 

Battle Terrain

Combat Terrain: Shaolin Temple

 

[xLEGACYx]

of course, the one character I do not agree with being in the tournament and Im against him.

 

Well my only chance is a speed blitz and hope it takes him out or blitz and take his guns away.

[Culwych1]

of course, the one character I do not agree with being in the tournament and Im against him.

 

Well my only chance is a speed blitz and hope it takes him out or blitz and take his guns away.

 

I have a feeling you may still win on popularity votes - but yes, I think as Oh Shit entries go, Black Adam is not the one who could beat the Saint. Their durability is arguably on par but Saint's firepower is too much for Adam. Speed is a factor but again, not if taking into account Adam's typical fighting style which is close quarters. 

 

Any particular reason you don't agree with him being in the tournament when you there are gods and superpowers as other entries?

[Guest bigballerju]

Saint of Killer is not a cosmic entity. Hence why he fits in the oh shit slot. What durability feat does Saint of Killers have that puts him on Black Adam's level? Black Adam was powerful enough to destroy the body of the Spectre. What makes you think he isn't fast or strong enough to kill Saint before he fires the gun? 

[Guest sithisson]

Teth-Adam does have one factor going for him in this particular terrain that I don't see the Saint having. Yes those guns are ..well insert word here...to contend with. However part of the terrain's particular ambiance is that the competitors show respect. Walking into a temple like that with guns, no matter how close to a being of heavenly might you might be, is not exactly respectful. Teth might have the win there at least. 

Speed is one of those killing ideas that will have to be argued, he gets a shot out the Saint's winning to be sure, at least here.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

If the wisdom of Zehuti tells Adam that the Saint has kill anyone guns, then Adam can easily cast a spell from a safe distance to kill the Saint, or he could just speed blitz him.  He is certainly faster than bullets, magic or not.

 

If he does not have this information, he can easily lose this fight.

[xLEGACYx]

the Saint is omnipotent, a nuke didnt leave a scratch, he faster than can bee seen, his guns never run out of ammo and can kill anyone or anything no matter what.  Also his bullets never miss.  They can curve or phase through anything (like Omega Beams but they actually work 100% of the time.

 

What puts him out of place to me is he is omnipotent and can kill anything no matter what.

[Guest bigballerju]

Exactly this fight could go either way.  Saint is not omipotent.

[xLEGACYx]

Exactly this fight could go either way.  Saint is not omipotent.

How is the character not cosmic when it can not be killed by God or the devil but can kill them with a single bullet?  He is above them.  He is immortal and has a weapon that kills anything and cant be stopped.  He is all powerful.  You cant kill him and you cant stop his attack.

[Guest sithisson]

The whole killing God thing tends to be wonky at best. Been through this whole idea many times on discussions of the Saint of Killers and the panels of the comic tend to bring all sorts of implied thoughts. Did he kill God? Stated in the storyline yes; but he'd not drawn and fired unto the deity was literally off his seat of power. See this is where it starts getting to religious ideals and why that character always brings issues with him. 

 

 

The Saint got there just before, it's in the comic as such, and made sure the deity had no means to win. Not that he'd had won if God/deity had taken the throne before hand. The Guns can be stopped by that sort of power and he is no means above if it took that sort of condition for it to happen in. He gets the kill feat sure, the Guns kill what they are aimed at but then again back into theology. You take that there is some divine plan and who's to say it wasn't suppose to go down that way in that particular universe? Given it to be a Vertigo title as it is that would suggest that the Saint should be able to take down the Endless as well by that very merit; something I'd not seeing as being manifestations of concepts they'd just as easy return in some other form against him. All he wanted it was to finally rest right? Death would certainly grant him a means somehow, or at least show him a way since she's more a guide then anything, before being "killed" herself by his Guns.

 

This even then would be drawing further ideas into play. His guns kill the unkillable in his universe sure but what about others? Has he shown that he could take any deity/entity of other universes down with those Guns? Against Black Adam sure there's merit in a win as their universes are so closely knitted, now more then ever, that it'll be hard pressed to argue for a win for Teth. Not impossible just hard pressed.

 

As to the killing of the Devil? Yeah that feat he can have. Freezing that Hell as he did I'd see nothing suggesting there was some sort of way the goatfooted one had a way out of it.

[xLEGACYx]

Well the only thing I can think of is according to your analysis if its not in the Egyptian gods 'divine plan' for Adam to die, then he could survive the bullets and continue to fight and win.

 

In that case, I would say that they would not want there champion killed.

[Guest sithisson]

That's about the gist of it yeah.It'll boil down to either divine/magical aid of some sort and/or who's faster. We know the Saint can quick-draw the Guns. What we'll need to compare is how fast he is with that action against Teth who could, without killing the man at all,rush him and toss him miles and miles away with his strength, A ring-out I suppose would be a good as a win as any.

The two scenarios, based on the terrain, I see happening is this. Teth-Adam is probably more then likely the one at the temple for some sort of mediation or other reason along those lines. First scene we get the Saint coming into the temple guns blazing. With help, Adam wins. Without any help Adam loses. Once those guns are drawn, save for divine help of some sort, the bullets will go to their target.

Second scenario. The Saint comes in to the temple, Adam is meditating, some monks or priests see this cowboy and his guns and try to stop him/welcome him at the door. Adam hears the conversation with super senses, suspects something's up and we are looking now at their speed here. Could Adam make it to that hypothetical entrance, grab the Saint, and toss him out and beyond before the Guns are drawn. There's one of the key factors to answer right there the speed issue. 

[Guest bigballerju]

In other words Saint is not omipotent and it's never been said. He isn't cosmic either. Yeah in his world he put himself in a position where he was able to kill them both. Saint's guns being able to kill anything in his world by no means puts him on a cosmic or omipotent level. It's the guns doing the actual killing not Saint.

[Culwych1]

In other words Saint is not omipotent and it's never been said. He isn't cosmic either. Yeah in his world he put himself in a position where he was able to kill them both. Saint's guns being able to kill anything in his world by no means puts him on a cosmic or omipotent level. It's the guns doing the actual killing not Saint.

 

Agreed, his power is his durability but his deadly guns are the Angel of Death's melted sword. 

 

 

Well the only thing I can think of is according to your analysis if its not in the Egyptian gods 'divine plan' for Adam to die, then he could survive the bullets and continue to fight and win.

 

In that case, I would say that they would not want there champion killed.

 

I'm a bit dubious about this as a possible "easy win" justification for all of BA's fights. 

 

Going with the speed thing I think that BA will be his own worst enemy as his fighting method will be to go in close. He's not going be fast enough to outmanoeuvre the bullets whilst trying to get in close and dirty. A similar outcome to if he came up against the higher level entries in this contest such as Odin or Spawn (hopefully a future battle).  

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Saint of Killers: 4

Black Adam: 21

 

[Culwych1]

Ah well. Worth a shot. 

[xLEGACYx]

I only won cause others did no research on the characters

[Fox]

I think a lot of people do research, I know I do.  Or they are already very familiar with a lot of these characters.  Anyways, just seems a bit of an unfair take on the community at large.  two cents.

[Guest sirmethos]

I only won cause others did no research on the characters

Or because people are aware, that there is absolutely nothing about the Saint, that makes it impossible for Adam to win.  And that Adam has several advantages over the Saint.

 

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that the Saint's durability is on par with Adam's, considering that the most impressive showing of durability seen from the Saint, was tanking a nuke, without a scratch.  In comparison, Adam shrugged off things far more powerful than even the Tsar Bomba(most powerful nuke recorded, iirc).

 

The Saint's speed is that of a normal human, while Adam is FTL.  Likewise with their reflexes.

 

Before the Saint has a chance to even finish a thought about attacking, Adam is fast enough to close the distance, take away his(the Saint) guns, and punt him off the planet.

[Guest sithisson]

I tend to research consistently throughout all of these matches. In fact regardless of trying to show that the Saint himself has some flaws I still went his way regardless. I certainly will not object to the comment although it seems viable unjustifiable to consider not using the word others, as many do research the characters at large, but to just see it as a flux of those who presumed the speed issue erred on the side of Teth. Or maybe there's a general dislike of the Saint; as I suggested before anything dealing with that character tends to get onto subjective terms and wonky proofs that can be interpreted in many ways; in fact sort of like when dealing with anything closely religious in fiction or IRL. Having one's own interpretation on something does not necessary mean those did not research either by the by.

[Guest bigballerju]

All of us gave our reasons why Adam would win. People to be fair during the Seasons seem to actually vote on who would win. The only match someone won because of popularity was Aunt May.

[Guest badpierce]

And iron fist...

[Guest Red_Dragon]

Maybe Popeye.

[xLEGACYx]

its ok with me.  Adam was my character but from what I found on the Saint he would not have to be FTL to hit Adam.  He has the durability to survive the intial attack and that would have given him time to pull the trigger.  Then game over.

 

As far as his speed goes, while not set at a certain rate.  He can draw and shoot faster than a man could see.

[Guest sithisson]

its ok with me.  Adam was my character but from what I found on the Saint he would not have to be FTL to hit Adam.  He has the durability to survive the intial attack and that would have given him time to pull the trigger.  Then game over.

 

As far as his speed goes, while not set at a certain rate.  He can draw and shoot faster than a man could see.

If the initial attack had been a ring toss though or even a punch that could just knock him out of the area for a follow up attack the durability would not have matter much as he'd have lost by being out of the location. The other part to consider here is "faster then a man can see". A normal man sure but with super senses one would have to think Adam would see the draw and react before the Saint got the guns out. 

It's why I put the two scenarios up there and then figured upon the first being more accurate to make my choice. I can see the Saint just coming to blast his way through and Teth having to make a far quicker response then a hypothetical monk/priest stopping him from entering. After all if there is one thing the man doesn't seem to have is respect for protocol of locations; ripping through the Heavenly Host to get to the throne does not speak of a man that respects the aura of a locale after all.