4:5 - Wonder Woman vs. Namor the Submariner

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 4, ROUND 5

 

Wonder Woman

Slot: Bring In the Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Wonder Woman at Wikipedia
Official Site: DC Comics

 

 

 

Namor the Submariner

Slot: Bring In the Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Namor the Submariner at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel Comics

 

 

 

 

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Detroit Ruins

 

 

[C.T.]

Oh damn, didn't expect this coming. That said, I think this is a really cool fight, and it could go either way but I'm leaning towards Namor. Detroit is fortunately right next to a large body of water and given how Namor is strengthened by that, that's really beneficial to him. Especially with how powerful he's been in recent times. 

[Bergy_Berg]

If this was specifically underwater I'd give it to Namor.

But Wonder Woman, who's familiar with Aquaman, should realize quickly that fighting in the water would be problematic. And since the fight takes place in the ruins of the city, not on the banks of a Great Lake, Wonder Woman has the edge here.

[C.T.]

5 minutes ago, Bergy_Berg said:

If this was specifically underwater I'd give it to Namor.

But Wonder Woman, who's familiar with Aquaman, should realize quickly that fighting in the water would be problematic. And since the fight takes place in the ruins of the city, not on the banks of a Great Lake, Wonder Woman has the edge here.

Just punch her into the Detroit river, it's right there. Or get punched into it himself I suppose. Or use the hydrokinesis he now possesses to bring the water from the river to him and flood the ruins. She would realize that's not the ideal fighting spot, yeah, but Namor should be able to hold his own long enough to take this, because of that.

[DSkillz]

The thread title and OP look much better now, don't you think?  

Anyways, I need to think on this one.

[C.T.]

33 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

The thread title and OP look much better now, don't you think?  

Anyways, I need to think on this one.

Ah, thank you DSkillz

[Macklemore]

The problem here is the fact that ANY of Wonder Woman's speed feats out class ANY of Namor's speed feats. Her lowest ends are faster than Namor's low ends, her mid ends are faster and so are her high ends. And they're faster by a laughable degree. I don't see how Namor is supposed to compete with her in a straight out brawl, especially if they start off in a desolate building. She can get anywhere faster than Namor can, and that includes stopping him from getting to the sea.

[C.T.]

5 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The problem here is the fact that ANY of Wonder Woman's speed feats out class ANY of Namor's speed feats. Her lowest ends are faster than Namor's low ends, her mid ends are faster and so are her high ends. And they're faster by a laughable degree. I don't see how Namor is supposed to compete with her in a straight out brawl, especially if they start off in a desolate building. She can get anywhere faster than Namor can, and that includes stopping him from getting to the sea.

But what if he uses his hydrokinesis to pull the water to him? 

[Macklemore]

1 minute ago, C.T. said:

But what if he uses his hydrokinesis to pull the water to him? 

How long would that take? Do we have a general idea of how far away the fight is from the sea? I genuinely don't see a convincing argument as to why she couldn't speed blitz him.

[C.T.]

1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

How long would that take? Do we have a general idea of how far away the fight is from the sea? I genuinely don't see a convincing argument as to why she couldn't speed blitz him.

They're fighting in Detroit...

https://www.outfrontmedia.com/-/media/images/ofm/markets/detroit/detroit-hero.jpg

[Fox]

5 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The problem here is the fact that ANY of Wonder Woman's speed feats out class ANY of Namor's speed feats. Her lowest ends are faster than Namor's low ends, her mid ends are faster and so are her high ends. And they're faster by a laughable degree. I don't see how Namor is supposed to compete with her in a straight out brawl, especially if they start off in a desolate building. She can get anywhere faster than Namor can, and that includes stopping him from getting to the sea.

Last I checked, Namor can fly and Wonder Woman can't.  How is Wondy keeping him from going anywhere he wants to go?

[Macklemore]

Just now, Fox said:

Last I checked, Namor can fly and Wonder Woman can't.  How is Wondy keeping him from going anywhere he wants to go?

Post-Crisis and Flashpoint Wonder Woman can in fact fly. Anyway, even then Wonder Woman is so much faster than Namor that he literally couldn't get off the ground before he gets punched down. Like we're talking that big of a difference in speed.

4 minutes ago, C.T. said:

They're fighting in Detroit...

https://www.outfrontmedia.com/-/media/images/ofm/markets/detroit/detroit-hero.jpg

I'm aware of the fact that there's a body of water in Detroit, but here's the size of Detroit actually. It could very well be taking place deeper in Detroit, away from the water, in which case water would take a lot longer to get to the combatants.

[C.T.]

1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

I'm aware of the fact that there's a body of water in Detroit, but here's the size of Detroit actually. It could very well be taking place deeper in Detroit, away from the water, in which case water would take a lot longer to get to the combatants.

Point taken, but with how he is now, I don't think she's gonna be able to take him out of the fight before the water would in fact get there, even if they are fighting in the farthest point of Detroit from the water. 

[SSJRuss]

I agree with Macklemore on all these accounts. Wonder Woman has plenty of experience fighting atlanteans and there was the whole mess with Aquaman in Flashpoint. She's on par with Superman in a lot of cases and she can stand her ground against him if needed. Aquaman hasn't gone toe to toe with Superman as often and done as well as her.

While Namor has the advantage in the water, Wonder Woman isn't helpless. She can fly (can't remember how or why but it was New 52), She has her lasso of truth, a sword that can cut an atom, her gauntlets and her god-like strength and agility. Namor comes second here.

[Fox]

I don’t disagree that Wonder Woman might win here.  I actually remain undecided.

What I don’t understand is why Aquaman is even being brought up in this topic. Aquaman isn’t even in Namor’s weight class.  There is no similarity there to use as a yardstick, in my humble opinion.

[Macklemore]

11 minutes ago, Fox said:

What I don’t understand is why Aquaman is even being brought up in this topic. Aquaman isn’t even in Namor’s weight class.  There is no similarity there to use as a yardstick, in my humble opinion.

I don't know man, Death Battle make a convincing argument for Aquaman being Namors superior.

[C.T.]

24 minutes ago, SSJRuss said:

I agree with Macklemore on all these accounts. Wonder Woman has plenty of experience fighting atlanteans and there was the whole mess with Aquaman in Flashpoint. She's on par with Superman in a lot of cases and she can stand her ground against him if needed. Aquaman hasn't gone toe to toe with Superman as often and done as well as her.

While Namor has the advantage in the water, Wonder Woman isn't helpless. She can fly (can't remember how or why but it was New 52), She has her lasso of truth, a sword that can cut an atom, her gauntlets and her god-like strength and agility. Namor comes second here.

Yeah, I don’t believe Aquaman is comparable to how strong Namor’s been shown to be recently, so that comparison’s out. Diana has the speed advantage, yeah, but I don’t see her being able to take him out easily. She has her lasso yeah, but I don’t see that ending the fight quick. Nor her gauntlets. And yeah she has god-like strength but Namor’s no slouch himself and could easily hold his own until he pulls water to him, in which case he could dominate. Under those conditions, the guy held back Thor and Iron Man at the same time, was completely unfazed by a punch from Captain Marvel, withstood an attack from She Hulk with no damage, he was punking them.

And Wondy’s sword is remarkable, but Namor himself could also have his own weapon in play with the magical trident of Poseidon, which isn’t anything to sneeze at either. 

[C.T.]

10 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I don't know man, Death Battle make a convincing argument for Aquaman being Namors superior.

Death Battle, convincing? That’s funny.

[Macklemore]

1 minute ago, C.T. said:

Death Battle, convincing? That’s funny.

People love knocking Death Battle down as a whole even when they make convincing arguments, as is the case here with Aquaman and Namor. Until I see a dissection of their argument, I'm inclined to agree with them.

[Fox]

13 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I don't know man, Death Battle make a convincing argument for Aquaman being Namors superior.

I remain unconvinced 

[C.T.]

15 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

People love knocking Death Battle down as a whole even when they make convincing arguments, as is the case here with Aquaman and Namor. Until I see a dissection of their argument, I'm inclined to agree with them.

You are free to do so, but I personally disagree. Even when he’s not submerged in water, Namor’s proven himself capable enough to hold his own in battle against the Sentry, one of Marvel’s many Superman expys, in a fight at length that spread throughout a city. 
 

With that in mind, I could see him holding his own long enough to bring the water to them and flooding the ruins to give himself the advantage.

[Fox]

I agree with CT.  The fact Aquaman is even being mentioned in this battle makes me call shenanigans 

[Macklemore]

The fact that people still run under the preconceived notions that Aquaman is simply the fish guy makes me kinda sad. Tomorrow when I'm on PC, I'll showcase why Aquaman deserves to be in this battle and why Wonder Woman being stronger matters. Even then, DC big guns are faster than Marvel big guns usually.

[Fox]

Aquaman isn’t in this battle to begin with and he isn’t a yardstick.

We are discussing Namor, specifically (with a 60+ Year run in comics) or Wonder Woman, specifically.  You want to talk about that fight, that’s cool.

You want to talk about Aquaman, choose him as your team Big Gun some time and we will measure him in this weight class.

[C.T.]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The fact that people still run under the preconceived notions that Aquaman is simply the fish guy makes me kinda sad. Tomorrow when I'm on PC, I'll showcase why Aquaman deserves to be in this battle and why Wonder Woman being stronger matters. Even then, DC big guns are faster than Marvel big guns usually.

Oh make no mistake with me, I don’t think of Aquaman as simply the fish guy, I know he’s an underrated badass. He’s powerful in his own right. I just don’t see him as being quite strong enough to hold back Thor and Iron Man at the same time and then tank a blow from Captain Marvel without moving an inch. In DC terms that would be like, holding back Orion and Steel I suppose and then not being fazed by an attack from Wonder Woman.

Aquaman’s cool and I enjoy him a lot and Jason Momoa does good in the role, enjoyed that film. I just don’t see him as being superior is all. But that’s neither here nor there, as Fox said Aquaman isn’t involved in this match.

And yeah, in many cases, DC’s fastest operate on a whole different scale than many of Marvel’s fastest. The Speed Force is insane, as are all those who can also go at speeds rivaling that like Superman. But Sentry isn’t one of those cases. I’d argue he could keep up speed wise with DC heroes. And Namor managed to hold his own with Sentry for a good while, even though Sentry had that speed advantage.