Ultimate Sith War.

[Guest Ruinus]

Are you considering him powerful?

 

He was, according to Mr. Lucas, at 80% of the Emperor's power. I'd say that would rank him high. I wouldn't pick him as the strongest (since Palps is the strongest) but it just seems odd that he isn't on here while lesser known ones are.

 

Starkiller beat Vader,

 

People don't really read my posts do they?

[Guest ricrery]

If anything, Starkiller could beat Vader but not Palpy.

[Guest Ruinus]

If anything, Starkiller could beat Vader but not Palpy.

 

Yup, people don't read my posts.

[Skirmisher]

Yup, people don't read my posts.

Well I agree that he Could beat Vader. After all he did in the Dark Side ending and the Dark Side continuation of the Story... Though that stuff is not Canon.

[Guest boston_celtics]

Vader's armor is ripped: So what? Ripped armor =/= defeated

 

Vader will DIE if his armor is destroyed.

 

 

Except that he didn't move it, he didn't rip it out of the sky and brought it down of his own sheer will, it was already falling from space.

 

He used the Force to change its direction and slow it down so it wouldn't fall on him. If he hadn't, he probably would have died.

 

Han Solo does not kill Palpatine, Vader does. (The first time.)

 

He does. When Palpatine was reborn and tried to take over Anakin Solo's body, Han shot him in the back. Dead.

 

"[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.â€

 

"When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered -- in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane -- only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge."

 

See, basically, this states that Palpatine managed to gain control of the galaxy in an underhanded and deceitful way; not through using massive Force power to freak everyone into obeying him.

 

And you can interpret that text as Palpatine being the strongest of the TWO Sith, not of all Sith in history.

 

If you will notice, Starkiller is hanging right over Palpatine, who is unarmed, while Vader is far, far away. Palpatine is BEATEN, and Starkiller is about to kill him, but Kota convinces him not to.

 

Palpatine would have let himself be killed, to turn Starkiller to the Dark Side. Unless Palpatine now knows a Force Technique that lets him deflect a Lightsaber with his hands.

In fact, notice after Starkiller does that whole "I explode save yourselves!" thing. Vader's armor is ripped up and Palpatine isn't even damaged. And yet, what are they doing? Are they standing about as if they were just about to die? Are they in any rush to get medical aid? Are they limping, holding their arms in pain or any other thing that shows they are hurting?

 

They are SITH. SITH! They gain strength from pain, from injury, from anger. Every Sith from Revan to Krayt has shown something similar, where they are injured, yet will ignore the pain completely because of something more important. In this case, that they had started a rebellion and now their relationship was strained to breaking point.

 

Case in point, the entire Legacy of the Force series. Caedus is injured again and again, yet will either keep on fighting or rush somewhere because they are in a Space Battle, and his neck injuries are not so important.

[Guest Ruinus]

Vader will DIE if his armor is destroyed.

 

And yet, in the ending cutscene he is in no hurry to get repaired. Whatever damage he sustained was clearly not enough to kill him.

 

He used the Force to change its direction and slow it down so it wouldn't fall on him. If he hadn't, he probably would have died.

 

Yes, which doesn't even contradict anything that I've said at all. I brought up the ISD thing because people harp on Starkilling bringing down an ISD. I pointed out that the ISD is damaged and is already falling and that Starkiller simply attempted to stop it from smushing him. According to the cutscene he barely succeeds.

 

He does. When Palpatine was reborn and tried to take over Anakin Solo's body, Han shot him in the back. Dead.

 

Source?

 

Oh wait: Palpatine's final death

"His last body destroyed, the Emperor's cackling spirit flew toward young Anakin Solo, but was intercepted by the dying Brand, who threw himself in the way. The Jedi Knight bound the Emperor's soul to his own departing life force, taking it with him as he became one with the Force. Railing and cursing against the Skywalker family, Emperor Palpatine's spirit was dragged into the depths of the Force, where every deceased Jedi would ensure his dark essence would never again return to wreak havoc upon the galaxy. There he would experience disembodiment in darkness, perpetual madness as if to always live with an open wound; terror without respite."

 

A pistol didn't kill him, being dragged into the Force itself and being held there by every single Jedi is what stopped him.

 

See, basically, this states that Palpatine managed to gain control of the galaxy in an underhanded and deceitful way; not through using massive Force power to freak everyone into obeying him.

 

And you can interpret that text as Palpatine being the strongest of the TWO Sith, not of all Sith in history.

 

I like your ability to selectively read what you want.

 

The Dark Side Sourcebook:

"[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side."

 

"The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge."

 

Massive Force powers you say?

Palpatine

"Palpatine was the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith in the history of the Sith Order—something he himself firmly believed..."

- ref Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith novelization

 

"Upon spending decades immersing himself in the many facets of the Force, it was believed that he had a mastery over all known powers, previously unknown powers, and could create new abilities on a whim."

- ref Dark Empire Sourcebook

 

"In addition to his fighting skills, Sidious was a master practitioner of Force lightning,[80][77] and the only known practitioner of the Force Storm. "

 

BTW: saying that this text refers only to Palpatine and Darth Maul is pretty bad English comprehension on your part.

The text says:

"When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered -- in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane -- only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious".

 

You claim that this passage only refers to the Two Sith that show up, Palpatine and Darth Maul. This is not supported by the text at all, unless you believe Palpatine and Darth Maul were watching and waiting for thousands of years. The text is refering to the Sith as a whole.

[Guest Ruinus]

If you will notice, Starkiller is hanging right over Palpatine, who is unarmed, while Vader is far, far away. Palpatine is BEATEN, and Starkiller is about to kill him, but Kota convinces him not to.

 

Palpatine would have let himself be killed, to turn Starkiller to the Dark Side. Unless Palpatine now knows a Force Technique that lets him deflect a Lightsaber with his hands.

 

Palpatine's lightsaber skills

"A master of every lightsaber combat form, Sidious drew his opponents in, fighting less than his true capability, and then striking the fatal blow when his opponents thought they had the better of him."

 

Oh, what does Starkiller say when he has supposedly "beat" Palpatine?

 

Starkiller: "He's stronger than you know."

 

What does Palpatine do immediately after Kota convinces Starkiller to let him go? He turns around and hits him with a Force Lightning and knocks him off his feet and sends him flying several meters backwards. Just like he did with Mace Windu.

 

They are SITH. SITH! They gain strength from pain, from injury, from anger. Every Sith from Revan to Krayt has shown something similar, where they are injured, yet will ignore the pain completely because of something more important. In this case, that they had started a rebellion and now their relationship was strained to breaking point.

 

Case in point, the entire Legacy of the Force series. Caedus is injured again and again, yet will either keep on fighting or rush somewhere because they are in a Space Battle, and his neck injuries are not so important.

 

Yeah, they are standing about and having a calm (if angry) conversation about the Rebel leaders getting away and Palpatine shows no visible injury and Vader's only damage is his armor. They are clearly in no pain or danger of death. And yet you claim they are just ignoring the fact that they are near death because the Rebellion has escaped, even though the Rebellion escaping isn't something they can stop right then and there and is more of a long term plan? You're saying that the are in pain and near death, but are ignoring it because their conversation of "Crap, this is kinda bad. I need you to step up and kill them faster" is more important than treating their injuries?

[Marvel Man]

Starkiller beat Vader, didn't he?

 

He gets my vote.

[Skirmisher]

Yes, which doesn't even contradict anything that I've said at all. I brought up the ISD thing because people harp on Starkilling bringing down an ISD. I pointed out that the ISD is damaged and is already falling and that Starkiller simply attempted to stop it from smushing him. According to the cutscene he barely succeeds.

Though I agree with you 100%...

 

It really doesn't help when Kota keeps yelling "Rip it out of the Sky!"

[Guest He who fights monsters]

This poll is a JOKE! Revan was the strongest force user, Jedi or Sith, of his time. Nihilus is the Sith Lord equivalent to Galactus. Darth Sion can go on forever! Palpatine or contemporary Sith Lords have nothing on the terrible trio I have mentioned.

[Guest boston_celtics]

Actually, He Who Fights Monsters has a point. Contemporary Force users never demonstrated feats comparable to the things that Old Republic Sith did...

[Guest Ruinus]

Except that Nihilus couldn't control his power, Sion's only power was not dying (IE anyone with sufficient Push/Pull powers could dick him around by tossing him away or slicing him up in pieces), and Darth Revan is wanked by the players too. Never in the entire games is there anything conclusive about his power. He defeats the Mandalorians (who were idiots anyways) and.... what else? Not much else.

 

Seriously, I like how there are quotes that flat out say Palps is the strongest Sith Lord ever (which I posted) and yet.... no one cares. Popularity contests are hilarious.

 

[Guest Ruinus]

Though I agree with you 100%...

 

It really doesn't help when Kota keeps yelling "Rip it out of the Sky!"

 

I know, but that makes it even more hilarious doesn't it?

 

Kota says: "Rip that puny ship out of the sky with your ZAPPY POWERS! Wank that power! HOTBLOODED! YOURS IS A FORCE PULL THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!"

 

Actual game visuals/novel says: "Attempt to stop that giant ship from falling on top of you, oh and barely survive in the process."

 

So players go "Mmmmh, which one makes me feel moar like a badass? What one guy says, or what the cutscenes show? I'll go with that one line. YEAH STARKILLER!"

 

It's exactly the thing with Revan, none of the game suggests he's powerful or awesome, just that he was smart in a time when everyone was stupid (the Republic was losing the war because they had no army and were idiots, just like always). Revan's Force abilities may have just been the ability to be a good tactician, yet because the players want to feel like a giant badass they change that and start saying "Revan was best evah!" even though that's not supported by the game at all. When Obiwan reads Anakin's midichlorian count he says "Not even Master Yoda has that high a count" not "WOW Anakin is still nowhere near Revan's midi count!"

[Guest boston_celtics]

Anakin had the highest Force Potential of all time. The reason he did not become more powerful than everybody was because he was a cyborg. The Force could not flow through him completely. Lumiya hints at it.

 

And I doubt Obi-Wan would be thinking of Revan at a time when they were stuck on Tatooine.

 

Don't belittle Revan's tactical ability, either. The "idiot" Mandalorians survived for thousands of years with an intact culture, and managed to outlast the Old Republic, the Galactic Empire, the New Republic, the Galactic Alliance, and the Yuuzhan Vong, while participating in every major war in Galactic history. Remember, Jango and his clone were Mandalorians, and they could kill Jedi.

 

Excuse me, none of the game suggests he is powerful? What about the part where he defeats a Dark Jedi with a Vibroblade and no Force Powers? Or how he fought his way through all the Sith on Korriban? Or how he defeated the Force Ghost of Ajunta Pull? Or how he defeated Darth Malak, while the latter was draining Force energy from the Starforge?

 

And, after analyzing the quote you posted, I realized that it only stated Palpatine was the most powerful of the Sith AFTER the implementation of the Rule of Two.

 

The Sith older than the Rule of Two are not included in the scope of the quote.

[Guest Ruinus]

Anakin had the highest Force Potential of all time. The reason he did not become more powerful than everybody was because he was a cyborg. The Force could not flow through him completely. Lumiya hints at it.

 

And I doubt Obi-Wan would be thinking of Revan at a time when they were stuck on Tatooine.

 

Sith Lord

"Sith power resided not in the flesh but in the will."

―Emperor Palpatine[src]

The Emperor, having gone out of his way to keep Vader alive, took an alternative viewpoint. Though it was true to say that he had not bargained for an apprentice that was "more machine than man", Palpatine was initially of the opinion that most of the limitations on Vader's potential power were not physical but psychological. He believed that, were Vader to fully confront his choices and disappointments to completely shake himself out of his despair, he would have been able to reawaken the incredible power within him. Yet, while Vader made progress in this regard, he was never fully able to accept who, and what, he had become.

 

Anakin had the highest midichlorian count in history. Revan was part of the Jedi Order, and it would make sense that all Jedi or members would have a midichlorian count taken. Obi-wan says "Not even Master Yoda has a count that high" meaning that Jedi, or at least Obi-wan, know the people with the highest counts. If Revan really was one of the most powerful people around then Obi-wan would remember that, or any other Jedi would remember that.

 

Don't belittle Revan's tactical ability, either. The "idiot" Mandalorians survived for thousands of years with an intact culture, and managed to outlast the Old Republic, the Galactic Empire, the New Republic, the Galactic Alliance, and the Yuuzhan Vong, while participating in every major war in Galactic history. Remember, Jango and his clone were Mandalorians, and they could kill Jedi.

 

Actually, they barely managed to scrape by. Canderous Ordo in KOTOR states that there were "too few of them" after the Old Sith Wars. Canderous later shows some disgust at the idea of his once proud warrior culture turning to mercenaries and thugs, and declining adherence to their rules. (To be honest and fair, this, I think, is a recent thing shown by the Clone Wars cartoon.

 

Mandalorian Civil War

By this time they are "the Mandalorians were effectively ended as a fighting force in the galaxy."

 

I'll respond to the rest in a bit.

[Guest boston_celtics]

Actually, they barely managed to scrape by. Canderous Ordo in KOTOR states that there were "too few of them" after the Old Sith Wars. Canderous later shows some disgust at the idea of his once proud warrior culture turning to mercenaries and thugs, and declining adherence to their rules. (To be honest and fair, this, I think, is a recent thing shown by the Clone Wars cartoon.

 

Mandalorian Civil War

By this time they are "the Mandalorians were effectively ended as a fighting force in the galaxy."

 

I'll respond to the rest in a bit.

 

Yet that same article says the Mandalorians were still a fighting force in the Sith-Imperial War

[Guest Ruinus]

Excuse me, none of the game suggests he is powerful? What about the part where he defeats a Dark Jedi with a Vibroblade and no Force Powers?

 

This was on Taris correct? Remember that Bastilla commented on Revan's actions before that point as "You are either very lucky or you are very strong in the Force" (not a direct quote, but she says something like this after you rescure her from the swoop race in the Undercity). Revan not being able to manifest any overt Force Powers at this point does not mean he was completely Force Powerless, just that we was unaware that he had those powers.

 

Or how he fought his way through all the Sith on Korriban?

 

A training facility, and not all Sith are incredibly powerful. Most of the people there were, AFAIK, still in training, and some of them were old fashioned guards. The only real "Sith" were the two instructors who he fought in the Temple.

 

Yes though, even that shows he is strong, but it doesn't mean that he was the strongest of them all.

 

Or how he defeated the Force Ghost of Ajunta Pull? Or how he defeated Darth Malak, while the latter was draining Force energy from the Starforge?

 

Ajunta Pull's Force Ghost may have not been as powerful as he was in person. BTW: the old Sith were only able to acheive incredibly things through their use of Sith Alchemy and other gizmo's to help them. This is quite different than the newer Sith directly using their own Force abilities (such as Palpatine).

 

Darth Malak was never particularly powerful, just strong. He defeats Revan the first time by blasting his ship, so this isn't any particular indicator of anything.

 

And, after analyzing the quote you posted, I realized that it only stated Palpatine was the most powerful of the Sith AFTER the implementation of the Rule of Two.

 

The Sith older than the Rule of Two are not included in the scope of the quote.

 

It says THE Sith, not "the Sith after the Rule of Two".

[Stranglehold-prime]

What about Darth Maul.

[C.T.]

What about Darth Maul?

 

He's bantha fodder to the others.

[Guest boston_celtics]

The Sith Academy on Korriban was full of Masters and students. And the first cutscene on Korriban showed a student killing three people with Force Lightning instantly. Now, if a student is capable of Force Lightning at such levels, how about the rest of the Masters at that academy? And it's not like we see Palpatine single-handedly exterminating all the Jedi at the Jedi Temple.

[Guest Ruinus]

The Sith Academy on Korriban was full of Masters and students. And the first cutscene on Korriban showed a student killing three people with Force Lightning instantly. Now, if a student is capable of Force Lightning at such levels, how about the rest of the Masters at that academy? And it's not like we see Palpatine single-handedly exterminating all the Jedi at the Jedi Temple.

 

Sith Academy of Korriban, the one master there was Uthar Wynn, who was killed by both Revan and Yuthara Ban.*

 

*For some reason, it says at the top of that section:"Note: The events in this section may or may not be canon." Which I find very odd, considering that the STAR WARS canon policy states that games always reach the Light Side ending. Revan, in fact, only defeats Uthar Wynn, not both.

 

Also, I'm not sure why it's considered awesome if one trainee was able to kill 3 people with Force Lightning, seeing as how people are very easy to kill. Any random guy who can generate any voltage over 30 can main or kill a person, hell, anyone who can make a Force Push could kill a person, doesn't mean they are particularly powerful.

[Skirmisher]

Also, I'm not sure why it's considered awesome if one trainee was able to kill 3 people with Force Lightning, seeing as how people are very easy to kill. Any random guy who can generate any voltage over 30 can main or kill a person, hell, anyone who can make a Force Push could kill a person, doesn't mean they are particularly powerful.

Wrong... It takes between 0.1 and 0.2 Amps to kill someone. The Human body generally has a resistance of between 1K and 10K Ohms dry. This means that it would take between 100V and 2000V minimum to kill someone.

 

As well, IF the path to ground doesn't pass directly through the Heart or Brain, the Body can survive far greater amounts of electricity, but only up to the point where it actually starts to burn the flesh... This is why people have survived Lightning strikes before.

[Guest Ruinus]

OSHA

• 50-150 mA Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contractions. Individual cannot let go. Death is possible.
  
• 1000-4300 mA Ventricular fibrillation (the rhythmic pumping action of the heart ceases.) Muscular contraction and nerve damage occur. Death is most likely.
  
• 10,000 mA Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death.
  

 

The lower limits are: 0.05 amps and 0.15 amps.

Human skin resistence if dry = 100,000 Ω, while broken or wet skin may have a resistance of around 1,000 Ω. ref.

 

So: E = I x R = (.05)(100,000)=5,000 volts.

5,000 volts if skin is dry.

 

E = I x R = (.05)(1,000)=50 volts.

50 volts if skin is wet/broken.

 

NIOSH says:

Voltages over 600 volts can rupture human skin, greatly reducing the resistance of the human body, allowing more current to flow and causing greater damage to internal organs.

 

It may be just crappy game mechanics, but I don't remember those dudes in the Academy having broken skin (or if they were sizzling) but I would hazard a guess that they were sweating bullets, thus reducing their resistence and allowing them to be killed by a lower amounts of volts.

 

Is this right though? I'd like to know what I did wrong in these figures.

 

Though this kinda makes sense to me, Force Lightning, can either kill someone instantly, kill someone quite quickly, or be used as a torture method. I'd assume that the stronger practicioners can increase the amps to kill someone flat out, and the weaker practicioners have to fight and wear out someone first, to get them to work up a sweat, so that their (comparitively) weaker lightning can kill the person. Or the stronger the person they can do anything in between, torture someone and then if you don't need them anymore kill them outright.

 

BTW: I'm using the lowest possible limit because they are much more reasonable. Plus, I figure saying "A Sith student could use 50 volts to kill a person who is sweating" makes more sense than "A Sith student makes 5,000 VOLTS OH YEAH! SITH POWAH!" One is, in my opinion, resonable to say, and the other can easily make people think I'm wanking STAR WARS at every turn.*

 

*Someone might think I'm doing this anyways though.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

sonofabiscuit... i hadnt finished Kotor yet. Why did i read this topic!

[treacherous]

Ruinus is 100% correct...Palpatine wins.