Thor Vs Goku

[Indolent]

Ah, which basically applies to everything, yes.

 

Its in the instance where he says he's no longer holding back against Iron Man. Granted he has a minor power up, its relatively simple to inference that he holds back... because the vast majority of opponents he's gone against, he'd easily annihilate. Its simple really. As for that: Current Thor as I believe is incredibly powerful that he can repeat all feats that he's performed OUTSIDE of Rune King/Odinforce and external power-ups - so there's no need for a benchmark based on the average when its strictly applicable...

 

Actually: He is capable of moving that fast - its a fact as stated by Marvel and Thor IS that powerful, even without his Hammer. For one: He definitely has energy manipulation capabilities without his hammer. He also can summon Lightning without his hammer. The only thing that he doesn't get is the flight and the other capabilities of hammer. On the topic of Thor being a Rookie: Goku would actually be the rookie himself - in regards to hand to hand combat skills, experience, and power.

 

Goku is of pure good yes, but that doesn't mean he can wield the hammer. Superman is pure good and he wielded the hammer only once in a cross over due to the higher ups okaying it. And Goku can't evade it - the hammer's been proven, in terms of its speed, to transcend space and time. Meaning if Thor wants to hit Goku, Goku is going to be smacked by it.

 

Reflexes is a part of combat, reflexes is what allows one to evade/counter. Its viable as speed, and for some, it is a form of power in relation to either mental capability or phyiscal, in regards to super speed.

 

Thor HAS FTL reflexes - Marvel has stated it and as far I'm concerned, Marvel's word is far more concrete/viable than yours. He doesn't need the hammer to move that fast - he can do it himself. Beyond that - you like to argue using spotty, bad writing - the same could be applied to those instances in the defense of Thor's speed if that's the route you're taking. Its a double edged sword.

 

Thor has trained for thousands of years under the finest of Asgard and is considered one of the most well learned warriors in the way of combat - which itself should get across the fact that he is the superior warrior out of Goku. I've already made it clear he has the skills, talents, and experiences that by far exceeds the likes of Goku's simply to the fact he's trained for that long.

 

Sentry is far more powerful than Thor - plus the fact Sentry himself IS bad writing... see the bad writing defense double edged sword being applied here?

 

But yes, Thor wins.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

I see your point and agree that it is a double edged sword. Oh and I didnt mean to say Thor is a rookie but that his fighting lacks the finesse that Goku's does. I mean king Kai has more experience and Goku has surpassed him and Goku has had less time and experience himself.

 

Knowing that Thor can survive in space and etc Goku would lose. But knowing that as you say Thor "holds back" he could get worked by Goku given that Goku uses IT when he fights.

 

Hulk has lifted Thors Hammer, was that canon?

 

[Indolent]

Yeah, I'm well aware of Goku's capability but that has more to do with his power levels aside from his fighting skill and experience. Factors and all that.

 

Eh, even if Thor holds back, the hammer would still hit him. That's the weird thing about his hammer.

 

I dunno - you mean Red Hulk?

[The Void]

...

 

Thor at full power would utterly annihilate The Incredible Hulk with relative ease. Doesn't have to be Rune King Thor or Odinforce Thor. Could just be Classic Thor. The thing is: Thor is a honorable warrior and he considers the Hulk to be another, which is why he restrains himself via limiting himself to hand to hand for the most part. He fights on the others' terms out of sheer respect and honor. That and its been clearly shown that he restrains himself against all adversaries because he is well aware that if he let loose, the cosmos itself would suffer. An example is when he basically went toe to toe with Beta Ray Bill in terms of strength, a nearby planetoid crumbled under the sheer force of the impacts of both's blows from a distance.

 

Not only does Thor have several millenias worth of combat experience and training, he has sheer talent. I recall a scan where he was training in his young years he manages to defeat one of the prominent members in Asgard in combat. My memory might be skewed but yes.

 

Fact is: Thor can move at light speed/beyond, fight at light speed/beyond, annihilate entire solar systems with ease, shatter planets through sheer strength , withstand a supernova (I recall an instance where a Supernova occurred whilst he was combating Drax the Destroyer who had a Power Gem at the time) and the hammer he wields has many powers of its own that only makes Thor a more dangerous threat.

 

Goku could be a good fight, yes. But the fact is, Thor outclasses Goku and would utterly crush him if he didn't restrain himself and fought on an even footing for Goku's sake.

 

This ^^^

[Guest Rupertmetal]

I'm going Goku cus of his martial arts, teleportation, kaioken and kamehameha. Goku's kamehameha is one of the strongest energy blasts in fiction in my opinion because of it's size. He can engulf a transformer with it.

[Guest bobisbeast]

I realize that scans are usually not given in debates such as this, but I feel that a few should be shown, as to back up a few points Jaeger has stated.

 

Here Thor explains his restraint

 

A modern example of Iron man noting the difference in Thor's attacks when not holding back

 

Thor shows Microsecond reaction times

 

A groggy thor manages to redirect a Physic attack, which are usually shown to be instantaneous

 

Just a few things to think about

[Indolent]

Danke, Bub.

[Guest bobisbeast]

No problem,

Just hope this proves to Pympex the few true things you were saying.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

I understand what you are all saying, but that comic is like 20 years old and it doesn't say he would annihilate everyone just people humans etc.

 

Hulk is not being mentioned nor is it being implied.

 

I still think you guys are taking Thor's writing ou of context

 

Happy Friday

[Guest bobisbeast]

Sigh.....

Now I'm going to need to break out the strength feats........

 

His strength closes dimensonal rifts

 

Thor doing very well versus the Hulk

 

Lifts the midgard Serpent

 

Can take a hit from Hulk, and can dish one out

 

He's taken hits from both Maxam and Drax WITH THE POWER GEM, at the same time, and instantly recovered

 

A thor that isn't holding back can easily manhandle Gladiator,

 

Thor, Strength-wise, is just not one you mess with,

And I haven't even begun to post the estortic powers of his mighty Hammer, which range from insane energy absorption, to time manipulation, to transmutation.

I believe, that on a good day, he has a heck of a good chance of winning against Goku

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

I see your posts and say that Goku fights with people that can destroy planets with less than a little energy ball, if your whole point is to say that Thor wins because he holds back, well Goku is known to hold back as well, in fact he holds back always for the thrill. yes I agree that Thor is powerful and never said he wasn't able to contend with DBZ, just saying that Thor would not subdue them as easily as you say

 

Goku has mote than just energy attacks, he has superior martial arts, his chi has multiple ways of being used, such as after image tech, IT, solar flares, Multi form and not to mention that Goku is the strongest one so of course he would put up a fight

 

If you say Thor holds back then why would he just go all out anyway?

[Indolent]

Eh, people busting planets was the highest they went apparently, which isn't that big a deal in comparison to Thor's capability of annihilating solar systems.

 

No offense but even if Goku went all out, Thor holding back would still match him - seriously. I stated that the only way it'd be a good fight (And last a while) would be that if Thor holds back for Goku's sake which is true.

 

Thor would be able to subdue them as easily as I'm saying. He has many capabilities that are either superior or capable of negating the others' moves.

 

Perhaps though debatable considering Thor's combat experience and the fact he's one of the better hand to hand combatants in his world. He can also manipulate Goku's chi, seeing as it is a form of energy, and can promptly negate the vast majority of them. And Goku being the strongest one would still be defeated which spells the premise of Thor being able to defeat anything DBZ related...

 

Because its true and even if he holds back, Goku would lose, and lose even faster if he didn't.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Um ok I will leave it at that, but if you think DBZ can only destroy planets, you are wrong, Goku is much more powerful than that, his energy blasts are stronger than Hulk's punches, and his martial arts is good, but Again let's leave this be

[Indolent]

Then show proof that they can destroy more beyond planets.

 

The instances you may use:

 

Broly's Destruction of the Majority of a Galaxy: Non-canon.

 

Cell's Exclaim of Destroying the Solar System: Never shown and easily chalked up to hyperbole - exaggeration is a commonly used method.

 

Super Buu Screaming though Dimensions: He only opens portals.

 

Super Buu/Gotenks/Gohan: Only exclaimed to destroy the universe, Vegito (Who isn't anything of that caliber) easily stops it after going SS.

 

Frankly, there's nothing to show they can do more other than speculation, and even the Canon storylines most powerful villain, Majin Buu, was only shown going round popping planets, nothing more.

 

I go by what's beens hown, Pymp Mex. You're going by speculation and conjecture. Thor himself has feats to back up his capabilities that we've laid out thus far.

 

Its simple as that, Goku is great, sure, but he's not capable of taking Thor whatsoever.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Lol, if you go by what's been shown then you see Thor losing to a lot of weaker people, whether he said he holds back, shouldn't apply to everyone, the scans will also show him fighting people way lower, those that are uber powerful are of course the exception.

 

Now in DBZ, going by what is shown is a valid point, so things like Cell saying he could destroy a solar system is pure speculation or boasts, but when someone that can sense powers, shooting a blast that can destroy a planet with a single blasts let alone with one that has a longer charge up should not need it to be proven. I mean I'm not saying that Goku can destroy a galaxy, and would never claim that, but it has been shown that Goku's blast pierce the sun, and their blast get there in a few seconds. For instance when Buu destroys Earth, Goku knew how much power was contained as he said it was enough to blow up ten Earths, now yeah you might say it can't be counted, but then I could say you that you may, I don't care, fact is this that everyone forgets

 

Thor is and for all intents and purposes able to do everything you said, because of what Sirmethos calls comic mechanics. Thors average showing is that of someone that would struggle against people will automatically throw in Thors highest showing and say anything less is PIS but when in reality it is when Thor pulls shit out of his arse to do things he rarely does. That's PIS

 

Goku by all accounts would be a powerful foe to fight with, no matter what, in comics it's rarely a stomp, and even so Thor wouldn't expect too much.

 

You are also naming DBZ moments well you forget that Bui didn't just open a portal, I recall him screaming and the sky was shattering. That wasn't while inside the chamber, but outside, I think when Vegito was fighting.

 

Also its hard to determine true power with Goku as he is never going to destroy anything but a planet, his power is much much higher than that though, and his attacks are always concentrated to a small spot

 

 

[C.T.]

If we go by what is shown, Goku can be hurt by a rock. Mjolnir to the face is only about 10,000 times more painful than that. And before you say non-canon, realize that is no different than going "comic mechanics or PIS" when Thor loses to someone far weaker than himself.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Not quite, as that would be considered comic relief. Anime tends to have that, pokemon, Kenshin, and most amines have it in multiple imes per series or even episode

 

Kenshins famous "Oro" and etc.

 

My thing is that people always mention Thor's highest showing when they should show his most common showing. Thor destroying a solar system for example hasn't been shown or if it has not very common or it's actually quite rare.

 

Same goes for DBZ, I usually only use what's shown unless it's something that is not out of te normal like Goku hasn't destroyed a solar system, but something like him using the warp kamehameha should let everyone know that he doesn't need to place his fingers on his forehead to use IT

 

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Also the reason Goku loses is that Thor has too many cases of bad writing and cases where the writers forget or add new things, his writing is all over the place, as most marvel is. So another reason DBZ loses as they have very few discrepancies compared

 

[Guest bigballerju]

These DBZ debates always end up the same way. They shit all over DC or Marvel rather then provide the proof people ask for. This is why DBZ vs anything is dead on CBUB.

 

Thor comics have been very good in recent years so I don't know why your trying to crap all over the writing and make excuses. People also don't know the meanin of PIS or comic mechanic with the way its being use to discredit Thor's feats.

 

Now like Jaeger said can we please have proof that in DBZ anybody canon wise can destroy anything beyond a planet. Not only that can we please get a good reason as to why Thor would lose to Goku instead of people trying to discredit Thor's abilities and powers.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Yet another reason why this site is starting to get boring, every discussion is a big circle. Instead of finding proof about something you probably already seen, get on with the match. Dude really Thor's writing is not great or een slightly good, your opinion is just as valid as mine and if Thor were good, it would sell more. The fact is that Thor hasn't been great since how long? I have a crap load of Avengers comics and they all arent anything special writing wise

 

Your logic is right? But sit down and realize that what you make it seem like is that Goku would sit there and die while Thor does nothing war his hand and Goku is stone or some other element. Where in reality comic battles last a lot longer than that.

 

[C.T.]

The only reason that occurs is comic mechanics. If characters were allowed to use their full potential against much weaker opponents, it would be really short and no one would read it. For example, let's use DBZ. Imagine all the sagas from Raditz to Cell. Now imagine the guy fighting those villains was Mystic Gohan. Each and every fight would last a panel. Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Cui, Zarbon, Dodoria, The Ginyu Force, Frieza, # 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, Cell. All of them dead with one hit. Boring.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Totally agree with you there, but they have people that are always more powerful, so the PIS would be them being able to beat someone that just a second ago was able to mop the floor with them. Which DBZ has a lot of that kind of PIS. Marvel on the other hand has PIS of a different nature such as when magneto took out the entire Avengers including Thor and then you have someone weak take Magneto out

 

In this Thor has the ability to turn things to dust or gas, but isn't used not for PIS but because it seems that Thor usually is fighting someone in his issue (Thor is always stronger in his own series than if it was someone else's and he was featuring in it) So it's just as likely that Thors uber powers are more PIS than someone weaker being able to damage Thor is.

 

That's all I meant and since "usually" Thor is taken out by hulk and people that can't een fly teleport or anything close to that effect, that Goku should technically put up a much better fight than others already have

NO?

 

[Guest Darxeth]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Thor only capable of flying by throwing his hammer?

[C.T.]

He has shown the ability to fly without his hammer, and he has used the winds to hover in place before.

[Guest The Lord Dragon Reborn]

WOW!!! You guys really get in to your debates. I'm going to go with my gut on this one and say Goku. Even if Thor got the upper hand and he did beat Goku, he wouldn't kill him. Goku would then heal and be twice as strong and *insensitivity* Thor's face.