Empire vs Trade Federation vs UNSC vs Covenant Empire

[Skirmisher]

Or perhaps that no energy came from the generator, as that would be far too much, therefor that was all the AT-AT's power.

So you're assuming that a large building that generated and processed Extremely Large Amounts of Energy was made of Styrofoam and wasn't generating Any Energy when it got hit?

 

 

I want the normal ones to calculate.

Ok, blasted a small hole in some thin metal plating? Shot a guy dead or really close to it in one shot? scorched a small patch of fur on a teddy bear?

[Guest ricrery]

So you're assuming that a large building that generated and processed Extremely Large Amounts of Energy was made of Styrofoam and wasn't generating Any Energy when it got hit?

 

It was possible, that it wasn't firing its energy as that would be far too much for them to handle.

 

Ok, blasted a small hole in some thin metal plating? Shot a guy dead or really close to it in one shot? scorched a small patch of fur on a teddy bear?

 

*Grabs Invader Taz* Go fetch me some feats!

[Skirmisher]

It was possible, that it wasn't firing its energy as that would be far too much for them to handle.

What? They were defending against a small Fleet of ISD's, if the Imperials had seen that the Shields were down then they would have obliterated the base from Orbit! So of coarse the Shield was up, which would mean that the Generator was Running, which would mean that Large Amounts of Energy were passing through it at the time it blew up.

 

Like I said, even if only a very small fraction of energy was cast off in the explosion then that would still produce a very large explosion like the one we saw on screen.

 

 

*Grabs Invader Taz* Go fetch me some feats!

Why are you grabbing someone? And aren't there laws about Sexual Harassment? Shame on you for groping some random person that isn't in this debate yet.

[Guest ricrery]

While Invader Taz does that, I will calculate from here okay?

 

45,000 x 60 = 2,700,000/540 = 5,000 J = 5 kj

 

30,000 x 60 = 1,800,000/540 = 3,333 = 3.333 kj

 

20,000 x 60 = 1,200,000/540 = 2,222 = 2.222 kj.

 

This would be how much they fire a single shot. I can't find anymore links to these weapons, though. But wow, gigawatts a minute.

[Guest ricrery]

What? They were defending against a small Fleet of ISD's, if the Imperials had seen that the Shields were down then they would have obliterated the base from Orbit! So of coarse the Shield was up, which would mean that the Generator was Running, which would mean that Large Amounts of Energy were passing through it at the time it blew up.

 

I know that.

 

Like I said, even if only a very small fraction of energy was cast off in the explosion then that would still produce a very large explosion like the one we saw on screen.

 

Okay, I see what you mean by "very small fraction".

 

Why are you grabbing someone? And aren't there laws about Sexual Harassment? Shame on you for groping some random person that isn't in this debate yet.

 

I can do whatever I want!

[Skirmisher]

While Invader Taz does that, I will calculate from here okay?

 

45,000 x 60 = 2,700,000/540 = 5,000 J = 5 kj

 

30,000 x 60 = 1,800,000/540 = 3,333 = 3.333 kj

 

20,000 x 60 = 1,200,000/540 = 2,222 = 2.222 kj.

 

This would be how much they fire a single shot. I can't find anymore links to these weapons, though. But wow, gigawatts a minute.

What relevance is this to the conversation? Also where did these numbers actually come from? Not the Link because I cannot find any correlation with the numbers presented there and your own.

 

Also, is that your own quote in your sig or did you take that from somewhere? Because it seems fairly vindictive to Halo in general. And frankly even though I myself am branded a Halo Fan, I have at least earned a rep for Logic and Reason in an Argument, you have not and wear your Bias like a Badge of Honour... It makes me think that even if I were to win this, it would not sway your thoughts.

[Guest ricrery]

What relevance is this to the conversation?

 

Well, I was going to give a yield to Covenant weaponry that can harm Spartans who are going to face AT-ATs with Stormtrooper backup.

 

Also, is that your own quote in your sig or did you take that from somewhere? Because it seems fairly vindictive to Halo in general. And frankly even though I myself am branded a Halo Fan, I have at least earned a rep for Logic and Reason in an Argument, you have not and wear your Bias like a Badge of Honour... It makes me think that even if I were to win this, it would not sway your thoughts.

 

... I took it from elsewhere. Does it really offend you? I prefer Halo because at least it doesn't have people screaming that kiloton based weaponry can beat Star Wars (Star Trek).

 

Here's some examples:

I think in the end Trek would win... would be a bloodbath at first as the sheer size and power of the Covie's overwhelm them... but once tactics and superior mobility kick in (as well as adaptation and trechnobabble solutions) I think Trek would plink a hole in the Cov's shields and simply wipe the floor with them.

 

First off, bullshit! Second, no limits fallaccy is not allowed. Third, UNSC could beat all the powers of Star Trek alone just due to have gigaton level weaponry, whereas low yield kilotons are dangerous to Trek ships.

 

Now, would you show me where you get that bull**** claim that trek cant generate more than a terawatt or fire more than .024 gigatons. The enterprise can generate 12.75 exawatts, that is 12.75 million terawatts. Have fun with that one loser. Next time you try and insult someone, don't make crap up because I will call you out on it every time.

 

Wow, I was wrong there, Photon Torpedoes don't even generate a megaton! Even with their power increased by 11%, they only blew up a huge chunk of an asteroid just bigger than them. NEWS: Trek cannot generate a petatwatt on its ships.

 

Damnation, Trekkers can't debate for shit.

[Skirmisher]

Well, I was going to give a yield to Covenant weaponry that can harm Spartans who are going to face AT-ATs with Stormtrooper backup.

True, but the thing is that the T-25 DER has an output of approx 31,250 watts based on the math there and averaging everything. Now think how long it takes to Down Shields. IIRC it took about 10+ shots to down Shields in Halo 1, meaning that Spartan could take 312,500+ watts of energy. But that's the old Mk5 armour. In Halo 2+ you had to Duel Wield Plasma Rifles to make them effective again.

 

As well IIRC an E-11 Blaster Rifle was once calced at around a hundred Kilojoules. Which would mean that it would take a handful of shots to down a Spartans Shields. That's also assuming that the Spartan doesn't just dodge the bolts, which they are fully capable of doing, as infantry bolts travel around 40m/s, whereas Plasma Fire which Spartans have been dodging for years in battle is rated at 126m/s. And usually when they have to dodge it, it's usually raining in on them like a monsoon.

 

 

... I took it from elsewhere. Does it really offend you? I prefer Halo because at least it doesn't have people screaming that kiloton based weaponry can beat Star Wars (Star Trek).

Well the whole "Halo must be the biggest, cheapest ripoff of the lot then." thing is kinda offensive seeing as how it doesn't really have any correlation to what the previous part of your sig mentioned.

 

Also try to get your facts straight.

 

- Marathon was released on December 21, 1994

- Starcraft was released on March 31, 1998

- Warhammer without the 40k on it means Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and was Not inspired by Starship Troopers, more than likely it was inspired by "The Lord of the Rings"

- AvP has nothing to do with any of this...

[Guest ricrery]

True, but the thing is that the T-25 DER has an output of approx 31,250 watts based on the math there and averaging everything. Now think how long it takes to Down Shields. IIRC it took about 10+ shots to down Shields in Halo 1, meaning that Spartan could take 312,500+ watts of energy. But that's the old Mk5 armour. In Halo 2+ you had to Duel Wield Plasma Rifles to make them effective again.

 

So 312.5 kilowatts for an out of date Spartan gear? Well, since I am not so aware of Halo, what does the new "more expensive" suit take? Twenty hits? Thirty? You have to be specific here.

 

As well IIRC an E-11 Blaster Rifle was once calced at around a hundred Kilojoules. Which would mean that it would take a handful of shots to down a Spartans Shields. That's also assuming that the Spartan doesn't just dodge the bolts, which they are fully capable of doing, as infantry bolts travel around 40m/s, whereas Plasma Fire which Spartans have been dodging for years in battle is rated at 126m/s. And usually when they have to dodge it, it's usually raining in on them like a monsoon.

 

Where was it calced? I have reason to believe they are in megajoule range because of their one-shot kill abilities.

 

Well the whole "Halo must be the biggest, cheapest ripoff of the lot then." thing is kinda offensive seeing as how it doesn't really have any correlation to what the previous part of your sig mentioned.

 

Well, that easily can be chipped off.

[Skirmisher]

So 312.5 kilowatts for an out of date Spartan gear? Well, since I am not so aware of Halo, what does the new "more expensive" suit take? Twenty hits? Thirty? You have to be specific here.

I would assume no more than double?

 

 

Where was it calced? I have reason to believe they are in megajoule range because of their one-shot kill abilities.

... You do realise that Megajoules of energy would Violently Explode people when they hit? This would be equivalent to 40K's Lasrifles that are actually stated to do this... Really I would expect Megajoule range damage for those High Powered Longblasters, but not for small carbines.

 

Besides, tell me where you got your numbers in the Megajoule range.

[Guest ricrery]

I would assume no more than double?

 

Ah, so 625 kilowatts is enough to penetrate the shields?

 

... You do realise that Megajoules of energy would Violently Explode people when they hit?

 

Remember Han's blaster destroying a large chunk of wall, the blast that blew up C-3PO, and the one that blew up the Droideka? Where would these yield?

 

This would be equivalent to 40K's Lasrifles that are actually stated to do this...

 

True, some calculations give them double digit megajoules.

 

Really I would expect Megajoule range damage for those High Powered Longblasters, but not for small carbines.

 

Dial a yield could be noted.

 

Besides, tell me where you got your numbers in the Megajoule range.

 

See how droids are asploded, chunks o' wall are a fallin', and armored troops are a dyin'.

[Guest ricrery]

Some more calculations.

 

The Plasma Pistol is a Covenant Directed Energy Weapon that uses superheated ionized gas called plasma rather than traditional human ballistic ammunition. The weapon has a power output of 100-150 KV @ 2~3 dA, but when overcharged, the power output is 1.5 MV @ 2~3 dA. The Type-25 DEP is standard-issue for lower-ranking Covenant infantry such as Unggoy, Kig-Yar and Yamne'e, but is occasionally used by higher ranking species within the Covenant such as Ossoona Elites; as such, it is the most commonly encountered Covenant energy weapon. If fired quickly enough, the Plasma Pistol is capable of firing at the same rate of fire as the Type-25 DER.

 

 

 

Impressive, 300,000 joules; 300 kilojoules a shot. 450,000 joules/450 kilojoules too. If I recall, in Halo 1 I could kill an Elite on normal with two blasts, so a single Elite could take 600 - 900 kilojoules before dropping. In Halo 2, however, it could take three shots on normal. 900 kilojoules - 1,350,000 kilojoules. This was a normal one, too. Master Chief is a bit stronger than them, but a volley of E-11's could still bring damage to him.

[Skirmisher]

Some more calculations.

 

Impressive, 300,000 joules; 300 kilojoules a shot. 450,000 joules/450 kilojoules too. If I recall, in Halo 1 I could kill an Elite on normal with two blasts, so a single Elite could take 600 - 900 kilojoules before dropping. In Halo 2, however, it could take three shots on normal. 900 kilojoules - 1,350,000 kilojoules. This was a normal one, too. Master Chief is a bit stronger than them, but a volley of E-11's could still bring damage to him.

Actually, Bungie has stated that for the purposes of Shields an Over Charged Pistol actually deals Infinite Damage... Only for shields though... But even still, if gives a rough and even estimate of shield strength that is within the ballpark for all the other calcs, which comes to around 350kj

 

As for E-11's, well If that one calc was right about ~100kj then a Spartan could still take a couple shots before having to duck for cover from Stormtroopers at least. But they would never need to do that in the first place as they would never be hit, unless completely overwhelmed while out in the open. To the Stormtroopers a Spartan would be like the Agents in the Matrix, super fast, incredibly strong, can dodge their "bullets" very easily, etc.

[Guest ricrery]

Actually, Bungie has stated that for the purposes of Shields an Over Charged Pistol actually deals Infinite Damage... Only for shields though...

 

Well, it still took two extra hits to kill them altogether.

 

But even still, if gives a rough and even estimate of shield strength that is within the ballpark for all the other calcs, which comes to around 350kj

 

Including Spartan shielding?

 

As for E-11's, well If that one calc was right about ~100kj then a Spartan could still take a couple shots before having to duck for cover from Stormtroopers at least. But they would never need to do that in the first place as they would never be hit, unless completely overwhelmed while out in the open. To the Stormtroopers a Spartan would be like the Agents in the Matrix, super fast, incredibly strong, can dodge their "bullets" very easily, etc.

 

Remember that the Stormtroopers weren't trying to kill Luke and Han when they were being attacked, but in the very first battle, they have amazing aim and only two are hit. Later when inside the Death Star, Stormtroopers fire the blasts at fast speeds.

[Skirmisher]

Remember that the Stormtroopers weren't trying to kill Luke and Han when they were being attacked, but in the very first battle, they have amazing aim and only two are hit. Later when inside the Death Star, Stormtroopers fire the blasts at fast speeds.

No I'm not talking about their Aim or their personal rate of fire, I'm talking about the fact that Hand Held Blasters fire incredibly slow moving "projectiles"

 

Infantry Blasters during the Clone Wars could only fire shots as fast as 40m/s, and a Spartan could literally run circles around that.

 

In fact the E-11 was based off of the Clone Blasters, except apparently it Significantly reduced the range from 10km down to a more reasonable 100m to 300m, as well as having poor recoil suppression leading to diminished accuracy. It also only had Two Settings... Stun and Kill, without any mention of Dial a Yield.

 

So without the Dial a Yield thingy, it seems that it's damage is still fairly inconsistent, though since most of it's data can be derived from hitting people it's safe to assume that the yield isn't anywhere close to multi-megajoules, as that would actually cause people to explode violently when hit with the weapon.

[Guest Ruinus]

Hmm, when last I checked Wookieepedia had said that it was a Heavily Customized Weapon... Now it makes no mention of it. "Star War, makers of Revisionist History since 1977" jk...

 

Still though, there is plenty of material that shows his gun WITH the scope. In fact the Blaster From ANH had a scope on it... When he fired all those powerful shots... Besides, I really don't think taking a removable scope off of a pistol would count as a Modification...

 

The best I could find in my Star Wars: Visual Dictionary is a "enchanced blaster delivery circuits" on his DL-44. Also, in the blaster page:

"Weapons such as Han Solo's DL-44 blaster pistol and the E-11 blaster rifle could cause incredible destruction, and had the power to blow huge chunks from stone walls and smaller holes and pockmarks out of durasteel bulkheads, as seen in Han Solo and Luke Skywalker's raid on Detention Block AA 23."

 

I dunno if it's refering to his gun specifically or simply referencing that Han Solo owns one: plus on this page (which references Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology as a source, but doesn't mention what) says:

 

"The BlasTech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistol puts the power of a blaster rifle into a weapon not more than the size of a standard pistol. Preferred by smugglers and other people of similar persuasion, it causes even the bravest of people to seek cover from its fury."

 

That's the thing. I har how Han Solo's blaster is modified, but modified in what way? I mean, it's already a heavy blaster pistol, so what did he modify? In TEB it doesn't have a scope, but why assume he modified it for greater power? Maybe more shots, a greater recoil compensator, muzzle suppresor or whatever.

 

I know that frame rate is standard, but sometimes it can vary, that's why I would rather dissect my frames with a clock stamp on them.

 

As for distance, is 10m reasonable? Or is it just a Guess?

 

It's alot harder to Guess a correct distance when trying to guess distance to a target rather than distance Across a target...

 

So I can easily say without Boost that My calc is the better, and more accurate.

 

Actually Star Wars was filmed in 24fps.

 

So the correct number was 120 m/s with a 24p. But even if you want to say it's not 10 meters then what? At 4 meters its 48 m/s, at 5 it's 60, 6 it's 72, 7 it's 84, 8 its 96 and at 9 its 108 m/s. Obi is 1.79 m in height and Jango is 1.89 m, but the perspective is enough to make Obi look like he's only about twice the size of Jango's helmet. (I really wish I knew how to calculate distance between two points who's heights are known...)

 

Infantry Blasters during the Clone Wars could only fire shots as fast as 40m/s, and a Spartan could literally run circles around that.

 

That is a pretty ridiculous assumptionto make from one example, you know that right? I mean, again, in the Battle of Geonosis we have DC-15 rounds crossing 500+ meter distances in a second or less. It's way better to assume that actual rifles, and not carbines or SMG analogues: have better velocities (And even that is assuming that your 40+m/s is taken as a "this is all SMG top bolt speed") since they are expected to be fielded at longer engagement ranges.

[Guest ricrery]

No I'm not talking about their Aim or their personal rate of fire, I'm talking about the fact that Hand Held Blasters fire incredibly slow moving "projectiles"

 

Really? No one short of plot characters ever seem to dodge the hits.

 

Infantry Blasters during the Clone Wars could only fire shots as fast as 40m/s, and a Spartan could literally run circles around that.

 

If they were coming from all angles he wouldn't be running circles.

 

So without the Dial a Yield thingy, it seems that it's damage is still fairly inconsistent,

 

I thought it could be said that the hit that hit Leia was on conserving power.

 

though since most of it's data can be derived from hitting people it's safe to assume that the yield isn't anywhere close to multi-megajoules, as that would actually cause people to explode violently when hit with the weapon.

 

It totally varies, and remember how C-3PO was blown to bits by a single blast.

[Guest Ruinus]

You should ask him for proof that SPARTANS can actually dodge bullets instead of simply moving out of the line of fire. There is a huge difference between: "Oh shit, that guy is pointing a gun at me *moves as bullet whizzes by*" and "Oh shit that guy is pointing a gun at me *gun fires, bullet come at me, I think about it, then I move out of the way*.

[Guest ricrery]

You should ask him for proof that SPARTANS can actually dodge bullets instead of simply moving out of the line of fire. There is a huge difference between: "Oh shit, that guy is pointing a gun at me *moves as bullet whizzes by*" and "Oh shit that guy is pointing a gun at me *gun fires, bullet come at me, I think about it, then I move out of the way*.

 

I should, the Halo Cutscenes make Master Chief out to be... slower than what the novels state?

[Guest ricrery]

A change in one of my posts.

 

45,000 x 60 = 2,700,000/540 = 5,000 J = 5 kj

 

30,000 x 60 = 1,800,000/540 = 3,333 = 3.333 kj

 

20,000 x 60 = 1,200,000/540 = 2,222 = 2.222 kj.

 

This would be the high end for speed because it can be 360 at its lowest.

 

45,000 x 60 = 2,700,000/360 = 7,500 J = 7.5 kj

 

30,000 x 60 = 1,800,000/360 = 5,000 = 5 kj

 

20,000 x 60 = 1,200,000/360 = 3,333 J = 3.333 kj.

 

If it takes ten hits to break the shields, it would be 75 kj - 33.33 kj. If it takes twenty hits, then it's 150 kj - 66.666 kj. Now, if it takes a whole clip, then it's 750 kj - 333.3 kj.

[Skirmisher]

Fine, I'll calc other speeds as well if I can find adequate framing that shows a bolt cross the screen against a known distance. As well that original Calc was not for an SMG/Carbine, the size of the bolt suggested something larger, like a Rifle or Repeater.

 

As well, I don't have the books on me ATM, but I'll go dig out the part ASAP. The only thing though is that it's really unnecessary. Spartans have recorded reaction times about ten or more times faster than a regular Human. And if you've played this game, and put some reasoning behind it, then you'd see that even Regular Humans could dodge bullets if they could see them.

 

Now instead of small, hard to see bullets here we have Extremely Bright, and relatively Slow Moving Bolts of energy... Even at that calc of ~120m/s, and the Canon Knowledge that a Spartan has Minimum Reaction Times of 0.02 seconds A Spartan should be able to react to the shot and dodge out of its way. The Spartan could reasonably start to dodge this bolt from 2.4m, After the blast was fired. Their heighten speed which allows them to move in a Blur of Motion, would allow them to complete this dodge unharmed from said distance.

 

Also Rice, what are those Numbers, please provide notation so we know what the hell your talking about.

 

Lastly, In terms of Canon, I find the Books to be higher from an Feat standpoint then the Game Cut Scenes. This is because Bungie could not implement what it needed to fully portray the Chief as he should have been. Had he moved with Super Speed and Spartan Reflexes in the Cutscenes then he would have needed to have them in Game. With such a Boost to the players capabilities, there would have been a need for Exponentially More Bad guys... Implementing ALL of this would have been beyond the abilities of the programmers at the time of Halo 1. After that, Bungie when with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" strategy for the other games leaving these higher feats to the books.

[Guest ricrery]

Also Rice, what are those Numbers, please provide notation so we know what the hell your talking about.

 

First off, it's Ricre. Second, I just put the numbers together then divide it by the number of bullets.

 

See, 100-200 kV @ 2-3 dA is 20,000-45,000 Watts per second. I then multiply for a minute, then divide by the amount they can fire a minute and I get how much they fire a single shot.

 

30,000 x 60 = 180,000 watts/540 bullets = 3.333 kj per bullet. Understand?

[Guest Ruinus]

Fine, I'll calc other speeds as well if I can find adequate framing that shows a bolt cross the screen against a known distance. As well that original Calc was not for an SMG/Carbine, the size of the bolt suggested something larger, like a Rifle or Repeater.

 

You'll also have to find some bolts from rifles or repeaters then, because you can't make the statement "that bolt there looks like a rifle, so rifles have 49 m/s speeds" without showing "yes, this is a rifle bolt" too.

 

As well, I don't have the books on me ATM, but I'll go dig out the part ASAP. The only thing though is that it's really unnecessary. Spartans have recorded reaction times about ten or more times faster than a regular Human. And if you've played this game, and put some reasoning behind it, then you'd see that even Regular Humans could dodge bullets if they could see them.

 

Clicking the left mouse button in a game while you are sitting and paying attention to a screen with a *vulgarity*ing countdown timer =/= moving your entire upper torso to dodge a bullet in a real life combat situation.

 

WARNING!

Bullets kill! Do not attempt to dodge them in real life...

because you won't.

 

There have been quite a few times in the game where a SPARTAN has been hit by humans and by Covenant weaponry. Their reaction times allow them to get out of weapons range on good occasions, it's not they are dancing around bullets like nothing.

 

Now instead of small, hard to see bullets here we have Extremely Bright, and relatively Slow Moving Bolts of energy... Even at that calc of ~120m/s, and the Canon Knowledge that a Spartan has Minimum Reaction Times of 0.02 seconds A Spartan should be able to react to the shot and dodge out of its way. The Spartan could reasonably start to dodge this bolt from 2.4m, After the blast was fired. Their heighten speed which allows them to move in a Blur of Motion, would allow them to complete this dodge unharmed from said distance.

 

Yeah, because SPARTANs never take enemy fire... oh wait.

Again, Battle of Geonosis, 500+ meters between the armies, bolts crossing said distances in fractions of a second from the DC-15s. 500/.08 (the same figure as before, simply for simplicity's sake) = 6 km/s.

 

Lastly, In terms of Canon, I find the Books to be higher from an Feat standpoint then the Game Cut Scenes. This is because Bungie could not implement what it needed to fully portray the Chief as he should have been. Had he moved with Super Speed and Spartan Reflexes in the Cutscenes then he would have needed to have them in Game. With such a Boost to the players capabilities, there would have been a need for Exponentially More Bad guys... Implementing ALL of this would have been beyond the abilities of the programmers at the time of Halo 1. After that, Bungie when with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" strategy for the other games leaving these higher feats to the books.

 

Unfortunately, Bungie disagrees:

Everything that Bungie has ever approved is canonical. But even then, certain things trump others. In order of canonical influence:

 

- The games rank first

- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second

- Marketing and PR materials third

 

- Joseph (Joseph Staten: Bungie's Director of Cinematics and Lead Writer)

[Skirmisher]

You'll also have to find some bolts from rifles or repeaters then, because you can't make the statement "that bolt there looks like a rifle, so rifles have 49 m/s speeds" without showing "yes, this is a rifle bolt" too.

Well, hand held blasters seem to have bolts that stretch a foot or more at the most. The Round that cleaved the head off that Clone Trooper seemed to stretch around a Meter in length. Assuming that the Bigger the Bolt, the Bigger the Gun, then that shot should have been from a larger gun than a Carbine.

 

 

Clicking the left mouse button in a game while you are sitting and paying attention to a screen with a *vulgarity*ing countdown timer =/= moving your entire upper torso to dodge a bullet in a real life combat situation.

I know, and that's why I provided better examples. Besides, It's based on Reaction Times, and IF a person could see both the Gun being fired and the Bullet as it travels then given sufficient reaction time that person could dodge. After that it depends on how fast a person can actually move their body out of the way. Since a Spartan can actually act as Normal during their Spartan Time, which allows them to see the world as if in slow motion, then these Spartans could be able to dodge rather easily. Think of it like the Matrix.

 

 

There have been quite a few times in the game where a SPARTAN has been hit by humans and by Covenant weaponry. Their reaction times allow them to get out of weapons range on good occasions, it's not they are dancing around bullets like nothing.

From ~100m John was able to dodge Three Banshees firing 15 to 20 rounds per second (Total = 45 to 60 rounds per second), with rounds that traveled at 153m/s. This shows that he could dodge this Massed Fire from Optimum Range, against rounds that (based on your guys calc) are faster than what these Spartans would be facing here. Add in the fact that that was with the Mk4 MJOLNIR and you have Spartans that should be wearing Mk6 MJOLNIR and they could easily to the same thing against much worse odds.

 

 

Yeah, because SPARTANs never take enemy fire... oh wait.

Again, Battle of Geonosis, 500+ meters between the armies, bolts crossing said distances in fractions of a second from the DC-15s. 500/.08 (the same figure as before, simply for simplicity's sake) = 6 km/s.

Yes and perhaps this was with their guns at Max, meaning that it would only give them 10 shots before they need to swap out their Energy Clips to fire again... Still though,

 

 

Unfortunately, Bungie disagrees:

Everything that Bungie has ever approved is canonical. But even then, certain things trump others. In order of canonical influence:

 

- The games rank first

- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second

- Marketing and PR materials third

 

- Joseph (Joseph Staten: Bungie's Director of Cinematics and Lead Writer)

"Halo 'canon' can quite easily be viewed in a similar way as the kind of canon system in place with Star Wars. A certain hierarchy of priority. In other words, different levels of canon where the higher levels will override the lower ones whenever there is a contradiction."

So this would mean that Game Mechanics are non-canon... With only the Story of the Games maintaining Highest Canon. So as there are no contradictions, the Novels Feats are Canon.

[Guest Ruinus]

Well, hand held blasters seem to have bolts that stretch a foot or more at the most. The Round that cleaved the head off that Clone Trooper seemed to stretch around a Meter in length. Assuming that the Bigger the Bolt, the Bigger the Gun, then that shot should have been from a larger gun than a Carbine.

 

Pics/evidence?

 

I know, and that's why I provided better examples. Besides, It's based on Reaction Times, and IF a person could see both the Gun being fired and the Bullet as it travels then given sufficient reaction time that person could dodge. After that it depends on how fast a person can actually move their body out of the way. Since a Spartan can actually act as Normal during their Spartan Time, which allows them to see the world as if in slow motion, then these Spartans could be able to dodge rather easily. Think of it like the Matrix.

 

And again, show quotes from the books for this bullet dodging, because none of it is anywhere near The Matrix.

 

From ~100m John was able to dodge Three Banshees firing 15 to 20 rounds per second (Total = 45 to 60 rounds per second), with rounds that traveled at 153m/s. This shows that he could dodge this Massed Fire from Optimum Range, against rounds that (based on your guys calc) are faster than what these Spartans would be facing here. Add in the fact that that was with the Mk4 MJOLNIR and you have Spartans that should be wearing Mk6 MJOLNIR and they could easily to the same thing against much worse odds.

 

Quotes/evidence?

All I see is:

 

The Fall of Reach, p.5

The Banshees were one hundred meters away, then fifty meters. Their plasma weapons might recycle fast enough to get another shot ... and at this range, the Chief wouldn't be dodging.

 

Yes and perhaps this was with their guns at Max, meaning that it would only give them 10 shots before they need to swap out their Energy Clips to fire again... Still though,

 

This assumption is based on what? Oh right, your idea that 49 m/s is the speed of all weapons (even though Jango's pistol bolts are twice as fast). On a max setting they reach 10 km, 20 times the distances involved in the Battle of Geonosis.

 

"Halo 'canon' can quite easily be viewed in a similar way as the kind of canon system in place with Star Wars. A certain hierarchy of priority. In other words, different levels of canon where the higher levels will override the lower ones whenever there is a contradiction."

So this would mean that Game Mechanics are non-canon... With only the Story of the Games maintaining Highest Canon. So as there are no contradictions, the Novels Feats are Canon.

 

Yeah, because the cutscenes in Halo are game mechanics and not the story of the games. I mean seriously, who the hell said anything about game mechanics?

 

*Actually, I remember some old quote about Legendary being canon with regards to how fast people die, etc etc. Can't find it though.