Master Chief vs Darth Vader

[Indolent]

Proof?

 

Based on Jedi Deflection of Bolts, Blaster's cannot fire faster than we can see them firing...

 

Also, Movie Mechanics? Yeah they'd be 100% Canon as they are from the Movie.

Meaning, that scene on Bespin casts a shadow of doubt on the speeds...

[Guest force_echo]

Proof?

 

Based on Jedi Deflection of Bolts, Blaster's cannot fire faster than we can see them firing...

 

Also, Movie Mechanics? Yeah they'd be 100% Canon as they are from the Movie.

Proof? You mean the stuff I justed posted thrice? The laws of physics? Wookiepedia? Youve got to be kidding me.

[Skirmisher]

Proof? You mean the stuff I justed posted thrice? The laws of physics? Wookiepedia? Youve got to be kidding me.

The Laws of Physics don't apply because you don't know the exact mechanics behind the weapon. If you did then what the hell are you doing on this forum, go patent the idea and get money from the Military for their new Blasters...

 

Wookieepedia only states speeds on TURBOLASERS and other Extremely High Powered Weapons. Even then...

 

 

Infantry Portable Blasters fire at speeds between 40m/s and 600m/s with Speed being directly related to the Power of the Weapon with faster speeds belonging to higher powered blasters.

[Indolent]

Yeah, you kinda proved my point, Ruinus, its separate from his world, the stuff are in their OWN world. Lucas never said "There is Vader from Ep 3-6 and then theres Vader from Ep 3-6+EU", exactly, he doesn't need to. His comments of them being a parallel universe and a different world is enough. PARALLEL. -.- It should be obvious. Its basically the same thing for AoA and 616, both are separate worlds because one's in a parallel universe. The Magneto example I presented? Magneto in AoA is effectively the same character as the one from 616 and yet, his feats from the AoA universe doesn't transfer over to the 616 mainstream universe, which is my point. I'm not saying its not canon, they're both canon. I'm saying that Vader's Feats from the EU universe shouldn't transfer over to the MOVIE universe's Vader. -.-

 

EDIT: On another note, some of the stuff in the EU world that doesn't follow closely at times is what is making me say this. -.-

[Guest force_echo]

The Laws of Physics don't apply because you don't know the exact mechanics behind the weapon. If you did then what the hell are you doing on this forum, go patent the idea and get money from the Military for their new Blasters...

 

Wookieepedia only states speeds on TURBOLASERS and other Extremely High Powered Weapons. Even then...

 

 

Infantry Portable Blasters fire at speeds between 40m/s and 600m/s with Speed being directly related to the Power of the Weapon with faster speeds belonging to higher powered blasters.

No its not with Turbolasers, Go look it up for regular blasters. And Wookiepedia and EU did explain the exact mechanics, I would patent it, if there was a laser small enough to fit inside the blaster, and still be strong enough to energize the plasma. I'm limited by the tech of my time . But yeah, why dont you prove Spartan Time to me? Explain why it hasnt been used in any game cutscene or comic. So then I would realize that you aren't making up MCs reaction times, just Vaders.

[Indolent]

No its not with Turbolasers, Go look it up for regular blasters. And Wookiepedia and EU did explain the exact mechanics, I would patent it, if there was a laser small enough to fit inside the blaster, and still be strong enough to energize the plasma. I'm limited by the tech of my time . But yeah, why dont you prove Spartan Time to me? Explain why it hasnt been used in any game cutscene or comic. So then I would realize that you aren't making up MCs reaction times, just Vaders.

I've tried to find the blaster speeds for the smaller units, the ones you speak of... and I've yet to find them. Link please? I'm actually curious.

[Skirmisher]

No its not with Turbolasers, Go look it up for regular blasters. And Wookiepedia and EU did explain the exact mechanics, I would patent it, if there was a laser small enough to fit inside the blaster, and still be strong enough to energize the plasma. I'm limited by the tech of my time . But yeah, why dont you prove Spartan Time to me? Explain why it hasnt been used in any game cutscene or comic. So then I would realize that you aren't making up MCs reaction times, just Vaders.

http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1099

 

Speed & Agility Feats

 

Now I'll start off talking about the Spartans and how quick and fast their movements are, to show a counter point to the fact that Elites have been able to fight in hand to hand combat on equal footing with them. I will give examples of Spartan perception at high speeds and examples of their actual speed. Then I will give two examples of when an Elite and a Spartan tangle in hand to hand, both times the Elite and the Spartan were even.

 

Spartan Perception of Speed: Spartan-117 (John, Master Chief) just after augmentation surgery without MJOLNIR armour tests his new found speed and observes his new found heightened perception for the first time, by working out in the Gym.

 

• "His fist jabbed forward, cobra-quick, and struck. The speed bag moved, but slowly, like it was under water... far too slowly considering how hard he had hit it." pg 64 The Fall of Reach
   
  
• "He held the pin a meter off the deck and dropped it. It clattered to the deck. It looked as if it had fallen normally... but somehow it also looked slow" pg 64 The Fall of Reach
  

Later on when the Spartans are preparing for their last official mission as a whole unit

• "A pair of [spartans] practiced hand-to-hand combat. Captain Keyes could barely follow their motions. They were so fast, no hesitation. Strike and block and counter-strike - their movements were a continuous stream of rapid-fire blurs." Pg 276 The Fall of Reach
   
  
• On page 314 to 315 of The Fall of Reach John engages an Elite Ranger in hand to hand combat. I cannot quote it all as the battle stretches out for about a page and a half, in which the Elite and John are just evenly matched, until John (with his trait of "Luck") gets the upper hand and shoots it's head off with a plasma pistol.
  

After the events of Halo: Combat Evolved.

• On page 71 to 75 of First Strike saw the Chief in hand to hand combat with yet another Elite, this one most definitely had the advantage over him and only through the fact that the Chief had back up was the Elite forced into an escape pod and jettisoned off the ship they were on.
  

 

Also of note for Elites is their physiological superiority in regards to their Speed and Agility compared to humans.

"Their legs are digitigrade... This arrangement possibly allows them to run very quickly and jump large distances"

"Their superior agility may also be attributed to their homeworld's higher gravity"

 

As well as the incredible physical benefits of Spartan Augmentation for acceptible Human subjects.

"John-117 runs at around 105 KPH (65.205 MPH) during a MJOLNIR MARK V training exercise"

 

 

 

Yes that is a 14 year old boy shitkicking 3 ODST's, the best of the best Navy Seal type badasses... and they didn't know what hit them until after they were dead.

[Guest force_echo]

"Some of the gas used to generate the beam is energized to a plasma state and is fired with the highly energized light at supra-light velocities, perhaps partially in hyperspace." From the Blaster article in Wookiepedia, theres also a Talk Page on it which is useful. Here it is. And by the quote Spartan time isnt really what it cracks up to be. the pin dropped slowly but not really? Thats like a freaking 2 percent difference. Not fast enough to drop a guy who eats entire squads of Jedi.

[Indolent]

"Some of the gas used to generate the beam is energized to a plasma state and is fired with the highly energized light at supra-light velocities, perhaps partially in hyperspace." From the Blaster article in Wookiepedia, theres also a Talk Page on it which is useful. Here it is. And by the quote Spartan time isnt really what it cracks up to be. the pin dropped slowly but not really? Thats like a freaking 2 percent difference. Not fast enough to drop a guy who eats entire squads of Jedi.

Interesting, even in the Talk Page:

 

"Indeed, the books do speak of bolts being dodged, at least in the books I've read. There's also the thing you mentioned about the films. This doesn't seem accurate."

 

Mh.

 

"The Technical Commentaries suggest that it's near lightspeed. I'll post a link to the External Links section. --GenkiNeko 11:16, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)"

 

Suggests... doesn't mean it is.

 

"There are instances in the films of Jedi moving to deflect bolts after leaving the weapon, so they must be no where near lightspeed. --Fade 11:52, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)"

 

MH.

 

""Because the bolt traveled at faster-than-light speeds, targets could show signs of damage before the visible portion of the bolt hit. This was because the visible portion, as well as most of the heat, was a side-effect of the actual, lethal bolt." Is there an IU source for this? I know it has been proposed by the tech commentaries, but I'm not sure if there's anything more substantial to support it. --Fade 21:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) "

 

Its been proposed. Doesn't necessarily mean its true. And that guy, Fade, could have not said ii any better.

 

"In a live blaster bolt, the light rotates around the bolt. The closer the light is, the hotter the bolt is (plasma pro.^^^) I'm not sure if this was the Lucas intension, but I think that the light is charged (not sure how, but light is two electromagnetic waves, so weaken one, and it is charged). Then the bolt is the oposite charge. Then, the light is atracted to the bolt, but is moving to fast to touch the bolt, so it spin around at light speed!"

 

The light from the bolt spins around at Light Speed... but not the projectile, and hell, the light isn't even lightspeed as we can still see it. Interesting. I'm seeing contradictory info here. "The bolt is lightspeed" "The light from the bolt is lightspeed"

 

And there's more evidence of people dodging the shots after they were fired before said dodge took place, in other places including the novels and movies as per what the people are saying here. And so, this further adds weight to my argument of the speed you're trying to put across...

[Skirmisher]

"Some of the gas used to generate the beam is energized to a plasma state and is fired with the highly energized light at supra-light velocities, perhaps partially in hyperspace." From the Blaster article in Wookiepedia, theres also a Talk Page on it which is useful. Here it is. And by the quote Spartan time isnt really what it cracks up to be. the pin dropped slowly but not really?

"Some of the gas used to generate the beam is energized to a plasma state and is fired with the highly energized light at supra-light velocities, perhaps partially in hyperspace." Is there a source on this? I always thought they were fairly slow, at least compared to bullets, so they could be dodged somewhat. In the movies, they take frames to get where they're going, which is way slower than light.-LtNOWIS 00:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 

* Indeed, the books do speak of bolts being dodged, at least in the books I've read. There's also the thing you mentioned about the films. This doesn't seem accurate. – Aidje talk 03:36, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

o The Technical Commentaries suggest that it's near lightspeed. I'll post a link to the External Links section. --GenkiNeko 11:16, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* There are instances in the films of Jedi moving to deflect bolts after leaving the weapon, so they must be no where near lightspeed. --Fade 11:52, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* I think that because it is obvious that blaster bolts can be seen much before they actually hit their targets in the films, that the part about blasters showing damage before the bolt is seen, should be put in an aside or taken out altogether. Where does that information come from anyway? Lt santa anna 06:01, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

o Totally. The blaster bolt is a sublightspeed charged-particle bolt. It's also never mentioned that the "laser charging" technique is used as described, although it probably does occur in the laser and turbolaser cannons, giving rise to the name.--The Erl of Blastech

o A blaster bolt would necessarily have to be comprised of more than just a laser beam. Laser beams are invisible when viewed on edge for the very reason that all the light is pointed in one direction, with as little diffusion as possible. That's why laser-communication can't be intercepted. Blaster bolts have been variously defined as consisting solely of high-energy plasma or a combination of a laser beam plus plasma. It is the heat of the plasma that radiates the visible light. Enochf 21:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC) (innit?)

 

"Because the bolt traveled at faster-than-light speeds, targets could show signs of damage before the visible portion of the bolt hit. This was because the visible portion, as well as most of the heat, was a side-effect of the actual, lethal bolt." Is there an IU source for this? I know it has been proposed by the tech commentaries, but I'm not sure if there's anything more substantial to support it. --Fade 21:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 

 

 

Thats like a freaking 2 percent difference. Not fast enough to drop a guy who eats entire squads of Jedi.

 

Wow are you Dense or something Read the rest of the post...

 

 

Also this http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Augm...cedures#Results

 

 

Reaction times of estimated twenty milliseconds. Significantly faster in combat situations or with A.I. assistance.

 

After augmentations, John-117's reaction times were so fast, that he was able to see things happen in slow motion - "Spartan Time".

 

John-117's reflexes allowed him to dodge blows from Elites in hand to hand combat, and follow up with bone breaking punches of his own.

 

Douglas-042's enhanced reflexes allowed him to grab a pike being thrust at him by a Sangheili Honor Guard, pull the pike from the Elite's hands, and strike him down with his own weapon.

 

Red Team was able to take on large numbers of Sangheili Honor Guard's despite being outnumbered over 20 to 3.

 

Kelly-087 was able to break an Energy Sword wielding Elite's wrist, elbow the Elite in the face, take the sword, and cut three Elites in half with a single swing.

 

William-043 was able to engage a Hunter in hand to hand combat, and win due to his enhanced strength that allow him to punch through the Hunter's worms and rip them out, combined with his enhanced reflexes which allowed him to dodge blows from the Hunter's shield.

[Guest force_echo]

Ok, thats what I was looking for in regard to spartan Time, now I actually believe he has it, but the first quotes you posted were completely unimpressive. And Im not arguing that its light speed, thats bs, im just proving that Wookiepedia says that. What im saying is that since the bolt is free electrons AKA energized plasma, it would obviously go at the rate of free electrons, 22000 kmph. And I dont know why you boldfaced "filmography like that dosent count" that kinda proves my point about how blaster bolt speeds showed in movies are noncannon... The blaster bolts move at the speed designated for the scene, when a hero needs to be hit, the bolts travel instantly, when George Lucas wants to show an exciting war scene, they move at snail's pace.

[Indolent]

Ok, thats what I was looking for in regard to spartan Time, now I actually believe he has it, but the first quotes you posted were completely unimpressive. And Im not arguing that its light speed, thats bs, im just proving that Wookiepedia says that. What im saying is that since the bolt is free electrons AKA energized plasma, it would obviously go at the rate of free electrons, 22000 kmph. And I dont know why you boldfaced "filmography like that dosent count" that kinda proves my point about how blaster bolt speeds showed in movies are noncannon... The blaster bolts move at the speed designated for the scene, when a hero needs to be hit, the bolts travel instantly, when George Lucas wants to show an exciting war scene, they move at snail's pace.

Are you seriously using what someone on the Talk Page said regarding the canonocity of the speed of the bolts shown in the movies? Yeah, no, its canon, through and through, and the fact remains. The sames happened in the novels, are these non-canon too? Lets make the whole thing non-canon.

[Skirmisher]

Hmmm... Force Echo you're wrong... the Bolt would travel at the speed of the Magnetic Bottle used to Hold the Plasma, or else it would dissipate the moment it left the barrel of the gun... Thus, the Speed is governed by the speed of the force confining the Plasma and not the speed of the free electrons

[Guest force_echo]

Hmmm... Force Echo you're wrong... the Bolt would travel at the speed of the Magnetic Bottle used to Hold the Plasma, or else it would dissipate the moment it left the barrel of the gun... Thus, the Speed is governed by the speed of the force confining the Plasma and not the speed of the free electrons

No, youre wrong, they are of the same charge, so the electrons should be propelled by their own charge and not the mag casing. If this property did not exist than it would take several seconds for a light switch to turn on instead of instantly. Virtually instantly that is.

[Skirmisher]

No, youre wrong, they are of the same charge, so the electrons should be propelled by their own charge and not the mag casing. If this property did not exist than it would take several seconds for a light switch to turn on instead of instantly. Virtually instantly that is.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/magnetic+bottle

 

(Physics / Nuclear Physics) a configuration of magnetic fields for containing plasma

 

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/free+electron

 

(Physics / General Physics) any electron that is not attached to an ion, atom, or molecule and is free to move under the influence of an applied electric or magnetic field

 

 

 

If a Plasma Gun were to work it would have to create:

 

 

 

Notice the Direction of the Magnetic Currents... That's where your Free Electrons would be going if the actually made the Field. None of them are going Forward, they spin around in circles, and that's it.

 

They need another force to push the Magnetic Bottle out at the target, and that force cannot seem to push Infantry Grade Blaster Bolts that fast.

[Guest force_echo]

Are you seriously using what someone on the Talk Page said regarding the canonocity of the speed of the bolts shown in the movies? Yeah, no, its canon, through and through, and the fact remains. The sames happened in the novels, are these non-canon too? Lets make the whole thing non-canon.

Im not using this person's guidance, I was merely inquiring why Skirmisher boldafaced it when it helped my argument and not his. The movie mechanics are not cannon. This did not happen in the novels. But you know what, since you being such a dick, lets assume everything in the novels is irrefutably cannon and instantly correct. Star Wars Bloodlines by Karen Traviss, Jaina Solo in an abadoned mineshaft. Force apparations attack her and Jacen, Jacen says that since they are just concentrated apparations on the force, they cannot hurt them. Jaina then says -mark this- blaster bolts are concentrated light, but that hurts people, so concentrated force apparations could very well destroy them. Thats not exacly what she said but she did say that blaster bolts are concentrated light. This means Vader's reflexes are light speed, thus I win the argument.

 

The electrons do not need a mag casing, photons from a laster, despite being random in the production medium, emit from the aperture extremly precise, through aperture and mirror tech. According to both Wookiepedia and The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, there is an ion accelerator in the aperture in the barrel that produces the same effect, this is also how blasters can inflict a stun effect. Only Bowcasters use mag quarrels to propel the electrons.

[Guest Ruinus]

Yeah, you kinda proved my point, Ruinus, its separate from his world, the stuff are in their OWN world. Lucas never said "There is Vader from Ep 3-6 and then theres Vader from Ep 3-6+EU", exactly, he doesn't need to. His comments of them being a parallel universe and a different world is enough. PARALLEL. -.- It should be obvious. Its basically the same thing for AoA and 616, both are separate worlds because one's in a parallel universe. The Magneto example I presented? Magneto in AoA is effectively the same character as the one from 616 and yet, his feats from the AoA universe doesn't transfer over to the 616 mainstream universe, which is my point. I'm not saying its not canon, they're both canon. I'm saying that Vader's Feats from the EU universe shouldn't transfer over to the MOVIE universe's Vader. -.-

 

EDIT: On another note, some of the stuff in the EU world that doesn't follow closely at times is what is making me say this. -.-

 

Again, it's obvious he's not talking about actual parallel realities like in Marvel with AoA and 616, he's using the words metaphorically to denote the fact that there are two groups working Star Wars, him in group A, and everyone else in group B. They both have their own "world" in that neither has any direct interaction with each other, but they are both approaching the same setting of Star Wars, albeit in different directions.

 

He's basically saying "My family (movies) is my world, my neighbors (EU guys) family (the EU) is his world."

[Indolent]

Again, it's obvious he's not talking about actual parallel realities like in Marvel with AoA and 616, he's using the words metaphorically to denote the fact that there are two groups working Star Wars, him in group A, and everyone else in group B. They both have their own "world" in that neither has any direct interaction with each other, but they are both approaching the same setting of Star Wars, albeit in different directions.

 

He's basically saying "My family (movies) is my world, my neighbors (EU guys) family (the EU) is his world."

Yeah. Funny thing, only things that are canon within EU are the novels and whatnot during the movies time-line from EP. 1 to Ep. 6. Novels after that or before that aren't canon. Why's that? Because the movies are the highest forms of canon or something?

 

Anyways, I'm getting tired of this. You go with what you want, I'll go with what I want.

[Guest Ruinus]

"Because the bolt traveled at faster-than-light speeds, targets could show signs of damage before the visible portion of the bolt hit. This was because the visible portion, as well as most of the heat, was a side-effect of the actual, lethal bolt." Is there an IU source for this? I know it has been proposed by the tech commentaries, but I'm not sure if there's anything more substantial to support it. --Fade 21:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 

 

Also, blasters don't fire plasma in a magnetic bottle, nothing in the Wookieepedia article mentions any such effect.

[Indolent]

Im not using this person's guidance, I was merely inquiring why Skirmisher boldafaced it when it helped my argument and not his. The movie mechanics are not cannon. This did not happen in the novels. But you know what, since you being such a dick, lets assume everything in the novels is irrefutably cannon and instantly correct. Star Wars Bloodlines by Karen Traviss, Jaina Solo in an abadoned mineshaft. Force apparations attack her and Jacen, Jacen says that since they are just concentrated apparations on the force, they cannot hurt them. Jaina then says -mark this- blaster bolts are concentrated light, but that hurts people, so concentrated force apparations could very well destroy them. Thats not exacly what she said but she did say that blaster bolts are concentrated light. This means Vader's reflexes are light speed, thus I win the argument.

 

The electrons do not need a mag casing, photons from a laster, despite being random in the production medium, emit from the aperture extremly precise, through aperture and mirror tech. According to both Wookiepedia and The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, there is an ion accelerator in the aperture in the barrel that produces the same effect, this is also how blasters can inflict a stun effect. Only Bowcasters use mag quarrels to propel the electrons.

Interesting, I thought you'd know this but the movies are the highest form of canon in the SWs franchise. Everything seen and portrayed within the films are canon. And I'm actually believing the people that said that such instances happened in the novel as it sounds that they've read the novels. And as they're posting on a wikia for Star Wars... it wouldn't be far fetched to guess that they have.

 

I'll leave the weapon specs to Skirmisher.

[Indolent]

"Because the bolt traveled at faster-than-light speeds, targets could show signs of damage before the visible portion of the bolt hit. This was because the visible portion, as well as most of the heat, was a side-effect of the actual, lethal bolt." Is there an IU source for this? I know it has been proposed by the tech commentaries, but I'm not sure if there's anything more substantial to support it. --Fade 21:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 

 

Also, blasters don't fire plasma in a magnetic bottle, nothing in the Wookieepedia article mentions any such effect.

Doesn't mean its true, Ruinus.

[Guest Ruinus]

Yeah. Funny thing, only things that are canon within EU are the novels and whatnot during the movies time-line from EP. 1 to Ep. 6. Novels after that or before that aren't canon. Why's that? Because the movies are the highest forms of canon or something?

 

Anyways, I'm getting tired of this. You go with what you want, I'll go with what I want.

 

The bolded part is a gigantic lie and you will back that up with some sort of quote.

[Guest Ruinus]

Doesn't mean its true, Ruinus.

 

You mean when a book says says: "Because the bolt traveled at faster-than-light speeds, targets could show signs of damage before the visible portion of the bolt hit", and I post a screen cap from the movie showing the exact same thing, it's not true?

 

I want to know what definition of true you are using.

[Indolent]

The bolded part is a gigantic lie and you will back that up with some sort of quote.

 

TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?"

LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

 

Which obviously means after Vader's story.

 

Its also only about Vader from the beginning of the first Episode, so... anything before that, isn't canon.

 

Also: Let me clarifiy, I forgot to say this: within the Movie's universe.

[Indolent]

You mean when a book says says: "Because the bolt traveled at faster-than-light speeds, targets could show signs of damage before the visible portion of the bolt hit", and I post a screen cap from the movie showing the exact same thing, it's not true?

 

I want to know what definition of true you are using.

I could show you a clip of Vader moving to block a blaster bolt, only after it was fired. This kinda casts a shadow on it being light speed, no? Plus the fact it was "PROPOSED", doesn't mean it IS.