Jack Ryan vs. Master Chief

[Guest force_echo]

Well yeah, lightning travels through plasma obviously, it would have to, but it itself is not plasma.

[Indolent]

"Lightning is an example of plasma present at Earth's surface."

 

From my link.

[Guest force_echo]

"Lightning is an example of plasma present at Earth's surface."

 

From my link.

"lightning is an atmospheric discharge of electricity." from Wikipedia on lightning. What the quote above means is, that lightning forms plasma at Earth's surface, with temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun, it would have the ionize the gasses in its wake, but this is super high grade plasma, with some the highest electron saturations present on Earth, I highly doubt that ME weapons can reproduce its effect.

 

The point Redfeild is trying to get off is ridiculous in its own right. You cannot tell me that flames of at least 2,250 degrees Celsius on Shepard's face would not at least break his aim. Thats complete bullshit.

 

Either way the point is moot, I'd love to hear how Shepard would manage to get out of being frozen solid by Freeze Blast. Or how he'd manage to avoid being flung into a tree using telekinesis. Hell, I'd love to see how Shepard would even harm Ryan, the huge amounts of Adam in his body instantly replace a dead cell with a new and improved stem version, Shepard is essentially fighting a weaker version of Doomsday. Even up close, Ryan's super strength would dehabilitate Shepard, Ryan had the gross musculature of a fit 19 year old when he was 1 years old.

[Guest Jason Redfield]

The point Redfeild is trying to get off is ridiculous in its own right. You cannot tell me that flames of at least 2,250 degrees Celsius on Shepard's face would not at least break his aim. Thats complete bullshit.

No, you said 750 degrees. To get 2,250 degrees, Jack would have to go for multiple finger snaps. And as I've said, that would be difficult considering several factors: Shepard using cover (which he does a LOT), Shepard's superior reaction time, the range on Shepard's weapons, and Shepard's biotics.

 

Either way the point is moot, I'd love to hear how Shepard would manage to get out of being frozen solid by Freeze Blast. Or how he'd manage to avoid being flung into a tree using telekinesis. Hell, I'd love to see how Shepard would even harm Ryan, the huge amounts of Adam in his body instantly replace a dead cell with a new and improved stem version, Shepard is essentially fighting a weaker version of Doomsday. Even up close, Ryan's super strength would dehabilitate Shepard, Ryan had the gross musculature of a fit 19 year old when he was 1 years old.

*sigh* Freeze blast has its Mass Effect equivalent in Cryo Blast, except with these using "a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles capable of snap-freezing targets within a certain radius". Sounds about the same, if not more dangerous, than freeze blast. Mass Effect suits protect at least partially against extremes in the low temperature range, as well.

 

As for the telekinesis, Shepard has that too. And his is powerful enough to lift fully-armored Krogan and various heavy debris high into the air. And as I've said before, Shepard's reaction time and sensors should allow him to get the drop on Jack, allowing him to use his own TK first. In addition, the suit/barrier help mitigate physics damage (including the biotic equivalent of telekinesis).

 

Oh, so Ryan has a healing factor? That's all well and good, but Shepard has a kinetic barrier, an armored hardsuit, skin that is the equivalent to Kevlar, and nigh-unbreakable bones. And those last two, guess what? They inject medi-gel at the first sign of trauma, thus serving as a healing factor of his own.

 

And Ryan's strength will mean jack shit to Shepard. The guy has that too -- enhanced muscles, not to mention servos in his hardsuit see to that. This allows him to toss random pieces of debris as if it's a menial task. In addition, he can take fully armored Krogan or even a Yagh in melee. Both of those are extremely powerful creatures that typically require heavy weapons to take down.

 

Basically, this is what I'm saying: Shepard has or at least has FACED opponents with powers comparable to Ryan's. So I think it's fair to put them at equal standing on that basis. However, Shepard has his armor, shield, sensors, and advanced reaction time. Those are the factors that put him on top in my mind.

[Guest force_echo]

Basically, this is what I'm saying: Shepard has or at least has FACED opponents with powers comparable to Ryan's. So I think it's fair to put them at equal standing on that basis. However, Shepard has his armor, shield, sensors, and advanced reaction time. Those are the factors that put him on top in my mind.

Eh, the statements' agreeable.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

To say Jack could beat Shepard, in my mind, is saying that Big daddies, creatures that give Jack major problems, are equivalent to the tough guys in bioshock, like say, a geth Prime or something

[Skirmisher]

 

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...

[Guest force_echo]

 

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...

Yeah, that point was adressed like 5 posts ago, a little slow there.

[Indolent]

 

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...

 

GRAPE PLASMA!

[Guest sirmethos]

 

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...

 

 

...

 

no, plasma is Not "energized fire" <.<, Plasma is ionized Gas.

 

One way of ionizing gas is by increasing the heat.

 

 

i saw a bunch of people linking to wikipedia while talking about what plasma is, but apparently people prefer to just take out the examples that support their argument, instead of simply going with the basic explanation of plasma: "In physics and chemistry, plasma is a substance similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. The basic premise is that heating a gas dissociates its molecular bonds, rendering it into its constituent atoms. Further heating leads to ionization (a loss of electrons), turning it into a plasma: containing charged particles, positive ions and negative electrons."

[Skirmisher]

...

 

no, plasma is Not "energized fire" <.<, Plasma is ionized Gas.

 

One way of ionizing gas is by increasing the heat.

 

 

i saw a bunch of people linking to wikipedia while talking about what plasma is, but apparently people prefer to just take out the examples that support their argument, instead of simply going with the basic explanation of plasma: "In physics and chemistry, plasma is a substance similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. The basic premise is that heating a gas dissociates its molecular bonds, rendering it into its constituent atoms. Further heating leads to ionization (a loss of electrons), turning it into a plasma: containing charged particles, positive ions and negative electrons."

Um.... Ok... and Fire is Not Plasma

 

"Fire is the rapid oxidation of a material in the chemical process of combustion, releasing heat, light, and various reaction products. Slower oxidative processes like rusting or digestion are not included by this definition.

 

The flame is the visible portion of the fire and consists of glowing hot gases. If hot enough, the gases may become ionized to produce plasma."

[Guest sirmethos]

Um.... Ok... and Fire is Not Plasma

 

well That, at least, is true. but then again, i never claimed that it was

 

the only one that claimed anything close to that, was yourself.

[Guest force_echo]

...

 

no, plasma is Not "energized fire" <.<, Plasma is ionized Gas.

 

One way of ionizing gas is by increasing the heat.

 

 

i saw a bunch of people linking to wikipedia while talking about what plasma is, but apparently people prefer to just take out the examples that support their argument, instead of simply going with the basic explanation of plasma: "In physics and chemistry, plasma is a substance similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. The basic premise is that heating a gas dissociates its molecular bonds, rendering it into its constituent atoms. Further heating leads to ionization (a loss of electrons), turning it into a plasma: containing charged particles, positive ions and negative electrons."

Which I have ALSO pointed out. Like I said before, you make some plasma by microwaving some Argon, is it fire? Hell no. Forget about being fire, Plasma dosen't even have to be hot, its just that extremly hot temps sometimes create plasma and some people get confused.

[Guest force_echo]

What if Sam Gideon joins the fight? Can sam take out Master Chief?

[Indolent]

I'm not exactly knowledgeable about Sam Gideon from Vanquish, so please fill me in on what he can do. I heard something about an ability that seems to let him temporarily slow time down so he can aim better, which doesn't sound unlike Spartan 2s' Spartan Time. What else besides this does Sam have? o.o

 

EDIT: Just watched a clip of him. Seems like he is capable of moving extremely fast, about at the same speed as Spartan 2s I assume. I also checked out the wikia (not sure if its reliable) but apparently, the toughness of the armor is as strong as steel. The MJOLNIR Mark IV armor is made of Titanium A, basically a super version of Titanium. The ARS is also prone to overheating and isn't able to tank damage that well apparently. Plus, it doesn't seem to have any shieldings, so Master Chief's got Sam in the defense department while they're both even in speed and agility, I'd say. The only thing I'd say he's got over Master Chief is his apparent ability to materialize weaponry via the BLADE system. And he's also able to upgrade weapons on the fly, nice.

 

I'm thinking with Sam's weaponry and upgrading capability advantage, he'd be even with Master Chief despite the toughness difference between the two. Also, it does depend on whether Master Chief doesn't or does have Cortana, because, you know, Cortana could hack it.

[Guest force_echo]

I'm not exactly knowledgeable about Sam Gideon from Vanquish, so please fill me in on what he can do. I heard something about an ability that seems to let him temporarily slow time down so he can aim better, which doesn't sound unlike Spartan 2s' Spartan Time. What else besides this does Sam have? o.o

 

EDIT: Just watched a clip of him. Seems like he is capable of moving extremely fast, about at the same speed as Spartan 2s I assume. I also checked out the wikia (not sure if its reliable) but apparently, the toughness of the armor is as strong as steel. The MJOLNIR Mark IV armor is made of Titanium A, basically a super version of Titanium. The ARS is also prone to overheating and isn't able to tank damage that well apparently. Plus, it doesn't seem to have any shieldings, so Master Chief's got Sam in the defense department while they're both even in speed and agility, I'd say. The only thing I'd say he's got over Master Chief is his apparent ability to materialize weaponry via the BLADE system. And he's also able to upgrade weapons on the fly, nice.

 

I'm thinking with Sam's weaponry and upgrading capability advantage, he'd be even with Master Chief despite the toughness difference between the two. Also, it does depend on whether Master Chief doesn't or does have Cortana, because, you know, Cortana could hack it.

Sam's adrenaline rush is waaayyy superior to Spartan Time, it allows him to bullet time and more. Using his boost, he is also faster than a Spartan, and I'm pretty sure they're about even strength-wise. However, Sam's armor does overheat easily, and MC does have greater defensive capabilities. However, Sam Gideon is just a boss. If you see the way he fights, especially during boss battles... It's amazing. MC dosen't even come close in that aspect.

[Indolent]

Sam's adrenaline rush is waaayyy superior to Spartan Time, it allows him to bullet time and more. Using his boost, he is also faster than a Spartan, and I'm pretty sure they're about even strength-wise. However, Sam's armor does overheat easily, and MC does have greater defensive capabilities. However, Sam Gideon is just a boss. If you see the way he fights, especially during boss battles... It's amazing. MC dosen't even come close in that aspect.

That may be so but that's only temporary whereas Spartan Time lasts as long as it is needed in combat. Once that boost wears off, Spartan 2s are faster, and its for the entire time they're in combat. Do we agree on this aspect? With the boost, Sam would be faster, but without it, Sam would be slower?

 

 

 

Sam can't last long in combat it sounds from things, by the overheating, and his armor's weaker. Considering that Master Chief would be an opponent that Sam would have a hard time with, I'm pretty sure it would push Sam to the limits, as well as his armor's.

 

Well, there are instances where several Spartans have done noteworthy things, such as one taking on a Hunter with just his fists and actually killing it, Master Chief literally slapping an anti-tank missile aside, etc...

[Skirmisher]

Sam's adrenaline rush is waaayyy superior to Spartan Time, it allows him to bullet time and more.

Hmm... I've been trying to find Gameplay and Cinematic footage showing this... Can you help or is that a false claim?

 

 

Using his boost, he is also faster than a Spartan

So with his boost he can run at 105kph? That's Fast Highway Speeds.

 

 

and I'm pretty sure they're about even strength-wise.

What are the figures on his enhancement? What has he lifted, or have the actually gave out Specs on what his armour does?

 

 

However, Sam's armor does overheat easily, and MC does have greater defensive capabilities.

This is easy to believe, as the Chief sports Titanium A Hardsuit (the Armour you see) and a Titanium A Nanocomposite Body Suit (The Black Body Suit under the Armour you see)... Not only that but there's the Shields and the Spartan's Natural Regeneration coupled with the Suits integrated Biofoam injectors... Much, Much Better Defense then what I've heard about this Sam...

 

 

However, Sam Gideon is just a boss. If you see the way he fights, especially during boss battles... It's amazing. MC dosen't even come close in that aspect.

Um... yeah, because his game is a Third Person Shooter and uses Quick Time Events in battle... Halo doesn't use quick time events (Which right there means it's Much Better) and is a FPS... So it wouldn't have the Fancy Boss Fights that other games have. Yet another thing to consider is that Halo is more realistic in the fact that it Doesn't have Boss Battles... Realistically you would not find Boss's Battling on the front lines... hell... you wouldn't find any Bosses like you'd see in Games.

 

As such the Chief didn't have to flip his way around the leg claws of some over-armoured cyborg Elite, and hit him in his weak spot above the third plate but below the first. Where the designer designated the Self Destruct button...

[Guest force_echo]

Hmm... I've been trying to find Gameplay and Cinematic footage showing this... Can you help or is that a false claim?

 

 

 

So with his boost he can run at 105kph? That's Fast Highway Speeds.

 

 

 

What are the figures on his enhancement? What has he lifted, or have the actually gave out Specs on what his armour does?

 

 

 

This is easy to believe, as the Chief sports Titanium A Hardsuit (the Armour you see) and a Titanium A Nanocomposite Body Suit (The Black Body Suit under the Armour you see)... Not only that but there's the Shields and the Spartan's Natural Regeneration coupled with the Suits integrated Biofoam injectors... Much, Much Better Defense then what I've heard about this Sam...

 

 

 

Um... yeah, because his game is a Third Person Shooter and uses Quick Time Events in battle... Halo doesn't use quick time events (Which right there means it's Much Better) and is a FPS... So it wouldn't have the Fancy Boss Fights that other games have. Yet another thing to consider is that Halo is more realistic in the fact that it Doesn't have Boss Battles... Realistically you would not find Boss's Battling on the front lines... hell... you wouldn't find any Bosses like you'd see in Games.

 

As such the Chief didn't have to flip his way around the leg claws of some over-armoured cyborg Elite, and hit him in his weak spot above the third plate but below the first. Where the designer designated the Self Destruct button...

I have the game... When you activate the surge, you can dodge bullets/missles, you fire much faster, everything slows down. I've seen two examples of Spartan Time, neither are in the least bit remotely impressive. It seems like it was underwater? It fell slowly but not really? Get real, Spartan Time is one the most overrated abilities on the site, surpassing Batman's prep time.

 

You have like wheels on your shins or something, jet engines then activate from the back of your suit, you don't run. and yes, it's crazy fast, so much so that in the game your mind has to struggle to keep up. I would put the boost at easily above 200 mph.

 

He destroys heavily armored targets in about two punches. there are no definite specs because Vanquish is not a mega-universe like HALO is, but the armor is able to take 2 clips of Heavy Machine Gun ammo, and you can kill him in two hits by meleeing him. He was also able to punch through this super-hard ultra steel electromagnetically reinforced armor plating thingymabob in two hits.

 

Yeah, MC has a better defense, but Sam is superior in pretty much everything else.

 

I realize this, I wasn't bringing up the point to decry Mc's fighting ability (sorry if I came across like that), I was just merely stating that Sam is one hell of a fighter, he is ultradynamic and intelligent when it comes to combat, he can find ways to defeat foes stronger in him in about every aspect.

 

How is having boss battles unrealistic at all? You don't thing people would send giant missle-spewing nearly invulnerable robots on the front lines? What? The whole point of these huge fighting machines is to be on the front line.

[Skirmisher]

I have the game... When you activate the surge, you can dodge bullets/missles, you fire much faster, everything slows down. I've seen two examples of Spartan Time, neither are in the least bit remotely impressive. It seems like it was underwater? It fell slowly but not really? Get real, Spartan Time is one the most overrated abilities on the site, surpassing Batman's prep time.

Have you seen the one where he wtfpwns an entire squad of ODSTs in a couple seconds? All the while Specifically Thinking over his actions and assessing damage to the ODSTs to try and not kill them...

 

He did that in Seconds, with the Squad spaced out so that they could flank him... and he still wiped them out as if it were no bigger deal than doing the laundry.

 

Or how about the two Spartans Sparing in Blurs of Motion?

 

Or how about the time the Master Chief Punched a Super Sonic Missile out of the Air?

 

It's not overrated if it's Actually demonstrated by them... Man, you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

You have like wheels on your shins or something, jet engines then activate from the back of your suit, you don't run. and yes, it's crazy fast, so much so that in the game your mind has to struggle to keep up. I would put the boost at easily above 200 mph.

Oh, so he needs a Jet Engine to catch up to and overtake a Running Spartan... So wouldn't that boost overheat him some?

 

Also, I thought that it's Jet system was only in Quick Bursts....

 

 

He destroys heavily armored targets in about two punches. there are no definite specs because Vanquish is not a mega-universe like HALO is, but the armor is able to take 2 clips of Heavy Machine Gun ammo, and you can kill him in two hits by meleeing him. He was also able to punch through this super-hard ultra steel electromagnetically reinforced armor plating thingymabob in two hits.

Was that a Heavy Assault Rifle you were thinking or an Actual Heavy Machinegun?

 

As for his strength to punch through "super-hard ultra steel electromagnetically reinforced armor plating" he cheats. First it's not Super-Hard, though it does have some sort of EM shielding to strengthen it... which he completely bypasses due to the counter EM field he generates....

 

Spartans can Dent Molecularly Strengthened Titanium with their grip alone...

 

They are well within 4 to 8 tons of Brute Strength.

 

 

Yeah, MC has a better defense, but Sam is superior in pretty much everything else.

Not really...

 

MC has

Better Defense

Better Regeneration

Better Speed

Better Strength

And if it weren't for the fact that Halo keeps the realism of not having Upgradable Weapons it would have that too...

 

 

I realize this, I wasn't bringing up the point to decry Mc's fighting ability (sorry if I came across like that), I was just merely stating that Sam is one hell of a fighter, he is ultradynamic and intelligent when it comes to combat, he can find ways to defeat foes stronger in him in about every aspect.

 

How is having boss battles unrealistic at all? You don't thing people would send giant missle-spewing nearly invulnerable robots on the front lines? What? The whole point of these huge fighting machines is to be on the front line.

I'm not saying that... but if you could produce a giant missile-spewing nearly invulnerable robots... why produce only One... why not an entire army of them organized into squads... with support and backup....

 

Basically something is a Boss if you have to fight only One of them... but with giant missile-spewing nearly invulnerable robots... couldn't you just Mass Produce them as Infantry? Then they aren't Bosses, they're Elite Soldiers.

[Guest ricrery]

The feats done in Chief's test are no longer canon, as stated by Bungie themselves.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

Basically something is a Boss if you have to fight only One of them... but with giant missile-spewing nearly invulnerable robots... couldn't you just Mass Produce them as Infantry? Then they aren't Bosses, they're Elite Soldiers.

[rant]The realism point irks me. We are on a comic book/other fiction stuff web site. Almost nothing is done in reality. Master Chief spends three games doing nothing but standing straight (occasionally crouching) firing guns, and meleeing whatever is in front of him. Not exactly realistic, but makes for an easily controlled gaming experience. The same goes for boss battles. They add to gaming's experience. Using it as a point of debate is silly. Also, the fact that you seem to believe MC has the ability to beat everyone in the same genre as him seems to suggest that it's based more of your love for the character and the universe as a whole (one I also thoroughly enjoy, by the way) then actual logic. [/rant]

 

who wants cookies?

[Skirmisher]

The feats done in Chief's test are no longer canon, as stated by Bungie themselves.

Stated Where?

[Indolent]

Skir, I was checking out the armors of the Spartans and I found that Master Chief in 2 and 3 has the Mk. 6 armor which has the biofoam injectors. This is apparently his regeneration in game. However, Noble Team has only the Mk. 5 armor in Halo: Reach, which does not have these biofoam injectors, only a injector port for said biofoam. This would explain them having a health bar underneath their shield bar?

[Guest force_echo]

Have you seen the one where he wtfpwns an entire squad of ODSTs in a couple seconds? All the while Specifically Thinking over his actions and assessing damage to the ODSTs to try and not kill them...

 

He did that in Seconds, with the Squad spaced out so that they could flank him... and he still wiped them out as if it were no bigger deal than doing the laundry.

 

Or how about the two Spartans Sparing in Blurs of Motion?

 

Or how about the time the Master Chief Punched a Super Sonic Missile out of the Air?

 

It's not overrated if it's Actually demonstrated by them... Man, you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

 

Oh, so he needs a Jet Engine to catch up to and overtake a Running Spartan... So wouldn't that boost overheat him some?

 

Also, I thought that it's Jet system was only in Quick Bursts....

 

 

 

Was that a Heavy Assault Rifle you were thinking or an Actual Heavy Machinegun?

 

As for his strength to punch through "super-hard ultra steel electromagnetically reinforced armor plating" he cheats. First it's not Super-Hard, though it does have some sort of EM shielding to strengthen it... which he completely bypasses due to the counter EM field he generates....

 

Spartans can Dent Molecularly Strengthened Titanium with their grip alone...

 

They are well within 4 to 8 tons of Brute Strength.

 

 

 

Not really...

 

MC has

Better Defense

Better Regeneration

Better Speed

Better Strength

And if it weren't for the fact that Halo keeps the realism of not having Upgradable Weapons it would have that too...

 

 

 

I'm not saying that... but if you could produce a giant missile-spewing nearly invulnerable robots... why produce only One... why not an entire army of them organized into squads... with support and backup....

 

Basically something is a Boss if you have to fight only One of them... but with giant missile-spewing nearly invulnerable robots... couldn't you just Mass Produce them as Infantry? Then they aren't Bosses, they're Elite Soldiers.

What regen? Last time I checked, when your health bar goes down, it stays down, only the sheilds regenerate. Better Speed? No, using the boost capability Sam is EASILY many times faster than MC.

 

Yes, I am talking about the actual heavy machine gun, the one with 200 rounds, yes. What do you mean he cheats? He hit it. What counter EM field? What? If he had a counter EM field he'd never even get hit by bullets.

 

The boost does overheat him, but only after like 20 seconds or so which, considering the speed he's going, is quite a bit of time.

 

Sam Gideon can freaking bullet time with his rush, he's beyond "blur of motion" blur of motion is when he's boosting, when you activate the rush, everything almost stops, thats how efficient it is. And it automatically activates when he gets low on health. The only downside is that MC's rush lasts throughout the entire battle, and Sam's is for about 10-15 seconds. He can, however, charge it up again in about 20 seconds. Maybe 25.

 

Have you seen the one where Sam dodges three supersonic missles, grabs the fourth one, and shoves it back in the tube that shot it?

 

If you can have one nuke why not make thousands upon thousands? These things aren't free. And besides, Sam wasn't fighting in a traditional "war", its a surgical strike on an enemy-held sattelite. For all we know, they could use the bosses regularly in battle.

 

Don't talk to me about HALO's realism when One spartan manages to single-handedly destroy the entire Covenant. A self-molding weapon is more realistic than a literally immortal supersoldier with an AI in his helmet.