Jack Ryan vs. Master Chief

[Guest force_echo]

Oh, I got another area in which Sam beats MC in, sheer intelligence.

[Skirmisher]

Skir, I was checking out the armors of the Spartans and I found that Master Chief in 2 and 3 has the Mk. 6 armor which has the biofoam injectors. This is apparently his regeneration in game. However, Noble Team has only the Mk. 5 armor in Halo: Reach, which does not have these biofoam injectors, only a injector port for said biofoam. This would explain them having a health bar underneath their shield bar?

Actually Spartans have been shown to have a slight regen that's not a part of the Biofoam injectors. For instance, the Chief after immediately waking up from slamming into the ground at ~200mph leaps up at lightning fast speed grabs a sidearm of of a surprised Marine and is able to ram in through the just de-cloaking Arbiters shields into his mouth...

 

You've seen ODST, Biofoam is good, but it aint that good...

 

 

What regen? Last time I checked, when your health bar goes down, it stays down, only the sheilds regenerate.

 

[Points up]

 

 

Better Speed? No, using the boost capability Sam is EASILY many times faster than MC.

 

Show a Video Please, because as far as I have seen his Boosting is in very Short spurts.

 

 

Yes, I am talking about the actual heavy machine gun, the one with 200 rounds, yes. What do you mean he cheats? He hit it. What counter EM field? What? If he had a counter EM field he'd never even get hit by bullets.

 

His Suit "transmits a powerful electromagnetic charge from it's core, allowing the user's close-combat attacks to break any charged armor an enemy might use." Basically he cheats by basically ignoring their thing that makes their armour "Super"...

 

 

The boost does overheat him, but only after like 20 seconds or so which, considering the speed he's going, is quite a bit of time.

 

Hmm, is the boost this? "The user is also able to execute emergency evasive maneuvers to avoid enemy attacks, through the use of Magnetoplasmadynamic thrusters equipped into the suit. Though the effectiveness of this maneuver is limited, it can prove useful in near-death situations whenever the system is overheating." because if that's it then like I said before it's for Emergency Evasive Maneuvers, not Sprints.

 

 

Sam Gideon can freaking bullet time with his rush, he's beyond "blur of motion" blur of motion is when he's boosting, when you activate the rush, everything almost stops, thats how efficient it is. And it automatically activates when he gets low on health. The only downside is that MC's rush lasts throughout the entire battle, and Sam's is for about 10-15 seconds. He can, however, charge it up again in about 20 seconds. Maybe 25.

 

Can I see a Video of this?

 

 

Have you seen the one where Sam dodges three supersonic missles, grabs the fourth one, and shoves it back in the tube that shot it?

 

Are you sure that the Missiles that Sam dodged were Actually Supersonic, because Not all missiles are Supersonic, RPG's (115m/s) and TOW Missiles (278m/s) are Subsonic. As well, most missiles fired at close range are definatly going to be subsonic due to the fact that they haven't had time to actually reach their operational speed.

 

So proof that Sam dodged Supersonic Missiles? Not only That, but the Chief didn't dodge his missile, he Parried it... That's MUCH harder to do than merely not being there when it blows up.

 

 

If you can have one nuke why not make thousands upon thousands? These things aren't free. And besides, Sam wasn't fighting in a traditional "war", its a surgical strike on an enemy-held sattelite. For all we know, they could use the bosses regularly in battle.

 

Um... Yeah, ok... a Bomb is a Great Example.... Except that even this example fails... List of states with Nuclear Weapons... nukes... nukes Everywhere...

 

 

Don't talk to me about HALO's realism when One spartan manages to single-handedly destroy the entire Covenant. A self-molding weapon is more realistic than a literally immortal supersoldier with an AI in his helmet.

 

Um... he never did that, and all the time in tough situations he either barely got through it by the skin of his teeth or had help... Plus the Covenant really destroyed themselves in a Civil War... He's not Immortal, but he is a Supersoldier.

 

 

Oh, I got another area in which Sam beats MC in, sheer intelligence.

Actually... funny thing about that, Spartans were chosen for Exceptional Attributes in just about everything... Strength, Speed, Hand-Eye Coordination, as well as Intelligence, Creativity, Adaptability, ect. Not only that but for ~6 years they were trained in just about Everything they would need to know about Battle Tactics and Strategy and how to adapt them to Whatever situation they need to on the battlefield.

 

So what, Sam's got a PhD in "I made a Suit" the Chief's got a PhD in "I'll still kick your ass"

[Guest ricrery]

Stated Where?

 

Here. Basically, half of the book was de-canonized.

[Skirmisher]

Here. Basically, half of the book was de-canonized.

Um... that doesn't actually say ANYTHING about the Fall of Reach being 100% non-canon...

 

It says that yes there are Inconsistencies, but that the designers of Halo: Reach they "were cognizant of the event structure and the historical time line within that book, and [they] wanted to play nice with it as much as [they] possibly could."

 

Meaning that only the Glaring Inconsistencies override "the Fall of Reach", not that they whole Game renders the book non-canon.

 

Basically as there was Nothing in the Game that contradicted the Test that the Chief did with the Mk5 armour, it means that it is still 100% Canon.

[Guest ricrery]

Basically as there was Nothing in the Game that contradicted the Test that the Chief did with the Mk5 armour, it means that it is still 100% Canon.

 

I believe that in Reach, Cortana and Chief hadn't met until the attack on Reach.

[Skirmisher]

I believe that in Reach, Cortana and Chief hadn't met until the attack on Reach.

Where does it say that?

[Guest force_echo]

Actually... funny thing about that, Spartans were chosen for Exceptional Attributes in just about everything... Strength, Speed, Hand-Eye Coordination, as well as Intelligence, Creativity, Adaptability, ect. Not only that but for ~6 years they were trained in just about Everything they would need to know about Battle Tactics and Strategy and how to adapt them to Whatever situation they need to on the battlefield.

 

So what, Sam's got a PhD in "I made a Suit" the Chief's got a PhD in "I'll still kick your ass"

In HALO 3 when he hits the ground, he dosen't do that, the Sgt. dude assumes he's dead.

 

No I will find you a goddamn video where Sam boosts until his bar is empty, go rent the game, or download the demo. A boost lasts for a good 10-15 seconds, it lasts all the way until the green bar goes down.

 

Oh, wow, I didn't even know that, so his melee can pass right through MC's energy shields, thats good to know.

 

I'm assuming that would be it, but you can't use it when the suit's already overheating, it would just overheat it more, that makes no sense. If the suit is at a full state, a boost will carry it 10-15 seconds (I replayed some of the game and I determined that it wasn't the 20 seconds I previously stated.).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2uKxmJVwA that has some reflex stuff in it, notice he never gets hit while in his adrenaline mode, and time seems to be close to a complete halt. It also gives him a LOT of time to aim. The first one, he took down two people, in about half a second real time (as evidenced by him being in midair).

 

Are you dense? I said that he grabbed the missile and rammed it down the tube that shot it.

 

Yeah, 8 nations, out of what, like 200 countries? And only US and Russia really have thousands of nukes. US is rich as hell and Russia used to be rich as hell. As you can see, not every country has thousands of nukes. And besides, the faction occupying the sattelite is not a nation, its some terrorist faction. In case you don't know. Terrorists are not rich. Heck, maybe they were over arrogant and just assumed one "super-weapon" would take care of the soldiers. After all, they would have to conserve war resources for the inevitable retaliation against the ultra-nationalists. And even if it was Russia itself, the conditions of battle were not an all-out war, there wouldn't be a flood of superweapons. Thats like using a tactical nuke on a Special Forces Operation.

 

He assasinated EVERY SINGLE PROPHET. Technically, he *insensitivity'd* the entire Covenant. He is immortal.

 

As, I mentioned before, Sam is extremly proficient in adapting a battle situation and coming out on top.

[Skirmisher]

In HALO 3 when he hits the ground, he dosen't do that, the Sgt. dude assumes he's dead.

 

No I will find you a goddamn video where Sam boosts until his bar is empty, go rent the game, or download the demo. A boost lasts for a good 10-15 seconds, it lasts all the way until the green bar goes down.

 

Oh, wow, I didn't even know that, so his melee can pass right through MC's energy shields, thats good to know.

1) True

 

2) Wait, you will get me a video... but you want me to go out and rent it to see it... ???

 

3) No, there's some special conditions with shields. Some attacks seem to be able to bypass shields while others are easily stopped.

 

 

I'm assuming that would be it, but you can't use it when the suit's already overheating, it would just overheat it more, that makes no sense. If the suit is at a full state, a boost will carry it 10-15 seconds (I replayed some of the game and I determined that it wasn't the 20 seconds I previously stated.).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2uKxmJVwA that has some reflex stuff in it, notice he never gets hit while in his adrenaline mode, and time seems to be close to a complete halt. It also gives him a LOT of time to aim. The first one, he took down two people, in about half a second real time (as evidenced by him being in midair).

 

Are you dense? I said that he grabbed the missile and rammed it down the tube that shot it.

1) Ok, so that skidding around with his jets... how does That help him, except to get away from or into the fight... either way it's no real advantage as it would either give the chief time for his regenerative shields to fix, or Sam would be barreling into a fight with someone who would whoop him.

 

2) Spartan Time is basically the same thing as an Adrenaline Rush, where time slows down for the person experiencing it. Similar to Car Crashes, this vid is one example of how it would look

watch Dr Ian Johnston, he would be moving like a Spartan. To me the difference between the two is Minimal at best.

 

3) Um... that's not a missile. As for impressive, I thought:

 

 

But then again I think that of all over-the-top quicktime BS games that try to fill EVERYTHING WITH AWESOME EPICNESS!!!!1!!11!1!!!

 

 

Yeah, 8 nations, out of what, like 200 countries? And only US and Russia really have thousands of nukes. US is rich as hell and Russia used to be rich as hell. As you can see, not every country has thousands of nukes. And besides, the faction occupying the sattelite is not a nation, its some terrorist faction. In case you don't know. Terrorists are not rich. Heck, maybe they were over arrogant and just assumed one "super-weapon" would take care of the soldiers. After all, they would have to conserve war resources for the inevitable retaliation against the ultra-nationalists. And even if it was Russia itself, the conditions of battle were not an all-out war, there wouldn't be a flood of superweapons. Thats like using a tactical nuke on a Special Forces Operation.

 

He assasinated EVERY SINGLE PROPHET. Technically, he *insensitivity'd* the entire Covenant. He is immortal.

 

As, I mentioned before, Sam is extremly proficient in adapting a battle situation and coming out on top.

1) Meh, still though, they're stupid. What was their goal, hold the satellite until Sam shows up so that he can kick their ass in slow motion with OMGEPIC!!11!!1 quicktime events? That's the Best goal I've ever seen from a Terrorist...

 

2) No, he didn't actually. He assassinated Regret because he had to chase him down after his fleet was:

 

a) Shreaded while refueling/rearming at their staging area (I think 95% of his fleet was annihilated in FIRST STRIKE)

 

He then went headlong into Earths Major defenses not realizing how well defended the planet was, which effectively annihilated all but his Assault Carrier... which had dropped alot of troops into New Mombasa before Slipspacing out.

 

c) Stationed itself over Delta Halo to await the rest of the Covenant Fleet, while it dropped the Rest of it's troops onto the Ring to secure it...

 

d) Regret and his Guard weren't expecting a Spartan to attack. Not only that but one that was also supported by squads of Marines and ODST's who were causing diversions elsewhere.

 

All that meant that essentially Regret was wide in the open assassination, and EVEN THEN it was still Extreme Luck that got the Chief through his Mission.

 

As for the High Prophet of Mercy, the Flood got him on High Charity because Truth let it happen so he would be the Sole leader of the Covenant. That had no involvement from Johns part.

 

And lastly Truth himself. That was only John supported with Marines, ODSTs, Tanks, Warthogs, and Hornets, along with the Arbiter and even the Flood, against a Heavily depleted force of Brutes.... And still it was still Extreme Luck that got the Chief through his Mission in time.

 

As for Raping the Covenant... no the Covenant did that themselves with their Civil War.... That was the only reason that the UNSC didn't get annihilated.

 

And lastly the whole Immortal thing... couldn't you say the same thing about Sam due to the fact that he's the main character of his game?

 

3) Ok, so he's just as good as the Chief, and every other Spartan II...

[Indolent]

It was Arbiter who killed Truth with an energy sword. Master Chief really only killed one Prophet and as Skir said, it was difficult enough as it was for him to do so...

[Guest force_echo]

1) True

 

2) Wait, you will get me a video... but you want me to go out and rent it to see it... ???

 

3) No, there's some special conditions with shields. Some attacks seem to be able to bypass shields while others are easily stopped.

 

 

 

1) Ok, so that skidding around with his jets... how does That help him, except to get away from or into the fight... either way it's no real advantage as it would either give the chief time for his regenerative shields to fix, or Sam would be barreling into a fight with someone who would whoop him.

 

2) Spartan Time is basically the same thing as an Adrenaline Rush, where time slows down for the person experiencing it. Similar to Car Crashes, this vid is one example of how it would look

watch Dr Ian Johnston, he would be moving like a Spartan. To me the difference between the two is Minimal at best.

 

3) Um... that's not a missile. As for impressive, I thought:

 

 

But then again I think that of all over-the-top quicktime BS games that try to fill EVERYTHING WITH AWESOME EPICNESS!!!!1!!11!1!!!

 

 

 

1) Meh, still though, they're stupid. What was their goal, hold the satellite until Sam shows up so that he can kick their ass in slow motion with OMGEPIC!!11!!1 quicktime events? That's the Best goal I've ever seen from a Terrorist...

 

2) No, he didn't actually. He assassinated Regret because he had to chase him down after his fleet was:

 

a) Shreaded while refueling/rearming at their staging area (I think 95% of his fleet was annihilated in FIRST STRIKE)

 

He then went headlong into Earths Major defenses not realizing how well defended the planet was, which effectively annihilated all but his Assault Carrier... which had dropped alot of troops into New Mombasa before Slipspacing out.

 

c) Stationed itself over Delta Halo to await the rest of the Covenant Fleet, while it dropped the Rest of it's troops onto the Ring to secure it...

 

d) Regret and his Guard weren't expecting a Spartan to attack. Not only that but one that was also supported by squads of Marines and ODST's who were causing diversions elsewhere.

 

All that meant that essentially Regret was wide in the open assassination, and EVEN THEN it was still Extreme Luck that got the Chief through his Mission.

 

As for the High Prophet of Mercy, the Flood got him on High Charity because Truth let it happen so he would be the Sole leader of the Covenant. That had no involvement from Johns part.

 

And lastly Truth himself. That was only John supported with Marines, ODSTs, Tanks, Warthogs, and Hornets, along with the Arbiter and even the Flood, against a Heavily depleted force of Brutes.... And still it was still Extreme Luck that got the Chief through his Mission in time.

 

As for Raping the Covenant... no the Covenant did that themselves with their Civil War.... That was the only reason that the UNSC didn't get annihilated.

 

And lastly the whole Immortal thing... couldn't you say the same thing about Sam due to the fact that he's the main character of his game?

 

3) Ok, so he's just as good as the Chief, and every other Spartan II...

Every other Spartan II? As I recall, every Spartan II got *insensitivity'd* at one engagement: Reach. Then one Spartan II made it through and became a literal miracle. The UNSC soldiers themselves believed MC was immortal. He is not even dead right now is he? My point is that the reality of MC's acheivements <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< the reality of Sam Gideon's acheivements.

 

You're not listening to me. When Sam engages adrenaline rush, he dosen't get hit, time perception comes close to a complete halt, if he jumps over an obstacle and engages an adrenaline rush, he can drop three people before he hits the ground. But you're never gonna admit to MC losing anyway so screw this damn debate, I'm going to go play some Xbox.

[Indolent]

Nope, they only lost a few spartans here and there. They did not get *insensitivity'd*. The ones who did were the Spartan 3s...

 

And no... it does not go to a complete halt, it slows down to a crawl.

 

Really, his speed is only short bursts from the jet and his adrenaline time is limited to what, second whereas Chief's would be... on... nonstop for the whole combat. Not to mention, far more durable armor than Sam's... not to mention, far more combat experience than Sam... Not to mention, he's got Cortana who can just easily figure out the weaknesses of Sam's armor...

 

Its more like you who cannot admit that Chief would win in a fight against Sam.

[Skirmisher]

Every other Spartan II? As I recall, every Spartan II got *insensitivity'd* at one engagement: Reach. Then one Spartan II made it through and became a literal miracle. The UNSC soldiers themselves believed MC was immortal. He is not even dead right now is he? My point is that the reality of MC's acheivements <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< the reality of Sam Gideon's acheivements.

OMGLOL

 

The ~25 Spartans that took part in the Fall of Reach got shot out of the Air in high orbit, and had to fall dozens of Kilometers without the assist of Jetpacks or Parachutes... Hitting the ground. Due to the weight of their Armour, Spartans have a Much higher terminal velocity than regular skydivers, and they had to speed up to avoid AA fire from the Covenant.

 

Even then I think only 4 were Killed on Impact...

 

They still took tremendous damage though, with alot of them being injured. Injured and not that mobile, and mobility is the one thing that keeps them alive on the battlefield... So then they show up at the Generators they were supposed to be defending with the Army... except that the Army screwed up a bombing run or an artillery strike and wiped out all the Spartans Support... So they with Significantly Reduced support had to face the Full weight of the Covenant Army, in Static positions, with Spartans who were significantly injured. That was what killed alot of them...

 

Except I think it only killed about a dozen...

 

They lost another in an Air Raid to drop a Nuke inside a Covenant Cruiser.

 

Lost one in Space when a stray Needler round exploded his EVA packs booster and sent him tumbling out into space.

 

Lost two more when cornered, underground by that same Covenant Army...

 

Lost another when Brutes ambushed a small strike team, and before that they didn't know about Brutes.

 

They lost another when he attacked two Hunters in hand to hand, managed to kill one first though, before the other shot him in the back.

 

Then lost another to a Nuke.

 

By the end of the War there were still 4 or 8 Spartan IIs alive and kicking.

 

 

As for Marines thinking them Immortal... that was the Office of Navel Intelligence's doing. They needed a Morale Boost, and they made the Spartans into Gods of War.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

As for Marines thinking them Immortal... that was the Office of Navel Intelligence's doing. They needed a Morale Boost, and they made the Spartans into Gods of War.

yup. As skirm has probably brought up before, All KIA spartans were listed instead as MIA, giving the illusion they were never actually killed