Modern Earth Military VS Galactic Empire

[Skirmisher]

Okay Ruinus, a few questions is for you since I brought the possiblity of them taking out our satelites. Answer these honestly now.

 

There technology is thousands of years ahead of ours, if not more, Right?

 

Would they even recognize such a "primitive" sat system for what it is?

 

Would they even take the time to shoot it down if they did? They might consider it a waste of time considering how easy they can subjugate the planet by your logic. Plus it would be counter-productive as they want to use our communications systems to get back in contact with the Galactic Empire. (Not that they would.)

 

Let me put this in a way you'll understand. Imagine you're commanding a detachment of Modern United States Armed Forces and are fighting Revolution era Redcoats, in situation like the one proposed here. Are you going to use what tittle ammo you have shooting their horses or save it for an actual battle?

Well... they'd have to shoot Every Horse they come across as they wouldn't know if they could use it against them... And THAT would be a waste of ammo...

[Nesh]

Well... they'd have to shoot Every Horse they come across as they wouldn't know if they could use it against them... And THAT would be a waste of ammo...

Exactly, and to the Empire seeing our sat system would be like digging up the first dinosaur bones, they'd have a vague idea of what it is but really they wouldn't know what it is. Besides as I said it's our communications equipment they want. They can shoot it down as they like but without our sat system they can't even begin to contact the Empire, their ultimate goal and we'd still have ground based radio, hell we could coordinate through freaking Morse Code if we had to. Various secret languages like in Wind Talkers.

A loss of our sat system would be a big blow, yes but we wouldn't be crippled per se. and they have to rebuild the entire sat system to reach their ultamate goal of getting a transmission to their galaxy, meanwhile w can go guerilla on them.

[Guest Ruinus]

Um... the world has plans in place for the collapse of the Satellite grid... sure it makes it Slightly Harder for us... but only slightly.

 

Also... they only have 5000 bombers world wide, and they are the only ones that actually have those Kiloton level bombs.

 

Fighters don't carry that kind of firepower.

 

TIE fighters, first-they were much faster than the bulky Imperial cruisers, so they were the first to make contact with the Rebel invaders. Savage dogfights ensued, and soon the black sky was aglow with ruby explosions.

 

An aide approached Ackbar. "We've added power to the forward shield, Admiral."

 

"Good. Double power on the main battery, and-

 

Suddenly the Star Cruiser was rocked by thermonuclear fireworks outside the observation window.

TIE/sa:

It did not carry missile tubes, but such weapons could be added on if necessary.

TIE/Ins could be outfitted with proton torpedoes just like the TIE/sa model can.

 

Not only that but THAAD could Easily catch them with their pants down as they attempt to make Bombing runs. You Seriously underestimate our SAM capabilities.

 

These THAADs have a limited range, and a limited ceiling height. The TIEs aren't conventional fighters that will have to cross terrain to reach their targets, having to dodge fighter patrols and SAM sites, they will literally just be able to fly straight up outisde the range of all our missiles, avoid any sort of fight entirely, and then simply swoop down on areas that lack any sort of protection. Unless the Earth is covered in SAM sites or within easy range of an airbase, TIEs can pick and chose when they can attack, Earth cannot.

 

BTW, there are only 48 THAAD interceptors out of 6 THAAD launchers. They aren't going to be doing much besides defending one area.

[Guest Ruinus]

Okay Ruinus, a few questions is for you since I brought the possiblity of them taking out our satelites. Answer these honestly now.

 

There technology is thousands of years ahead of ours, if not more, Right?

 

Would they even recognize such a "primitive" sat system for what it is?

 

Of course they would. In the same way that a modern man can look at a rock shaped like a cutting tool and realize that he is looking at a primative knife or spear, the GE will see satellites floating above the planet, detect signals being bounced to and from them and conclude that this is the method of communication on the planet and they'd know that it would be usefull to destroy these satellites.

 

Just like they do back in their own galaxy, where satellites are military targets.

 

Would they even take the time to shoot it down if they did? They might consider it a waste of time considering how easy they can subjugate the planet by your logic. Plus it would be counter-productive as they want to use our communications systems to get back in contact with the Galactic Empire. (Not that they would.)

 

They would actually realize that it would be easier to conquer Earth without their satellite network, and it wouldn't be a waste of time.

 

Look at a standard TIE/s max acceleration in space: 4,100 Gs. At max acceleration, in one second it is moving 40,221 m/s. Every second it adds another 40,221 m/s to that velocity. After one full minute it's moving at 2,413,260 m/s, or 2,413.26 km/s or .08% the speed of light.

 

The Moon is at an average distance of 385,000 km.

 

So it takes a TIE, after one full minute of acceleration, 159 seconds, or 2.66 minutes to reach the Moon. Think about the insane speeds here. 7 minutes and 32 seconds for a crappy little TIE fighter to to the Moon and back. While we watch The Simpsons for that 30 minute period the TIE has been to the Moon and back 4 times. A TIE has consumables for 2 days (assuming this means fuel) it can do this repeatedly for 2 days straight.

 

Of course, it won't keep these velocities. It has to slow down to shoot down the satellite. But what does it matter? At 4,100 Gs circling the Earth and shooting down satellites is nothing.

 

A single TIE could do it. Two could do it faster.

 

Oh, btw there's no way in hell the Imperial forces are using our satellites to re-establish contact with the Galactic Empire. Our satellites don't have any of the requirements to do so, most notably they lack subspace radio and FTL transceivers.

 

Unless the Imperial forces have an FTL communicator lying about, or can readily build one, they are going to be stuck on Earth a long time teaching us how to build FTL message systems.

[Nesh]

Unless the Imperial forces have an FTL communicator lying about, or can readily build one, they are going to be stuck on Earth a long time teaching us how to build FTL message systems.

Which means the fight isn't over, there would mostly be armed forces in hinding traing civilans fighting guerilla style. The fight wouldn't be over. We could still win.

[Skirmisher]

It did not carry missile tubes, but such weapons could be added on if necessary.

Except... they can't.

 

They don't have the Equipment to convert a TIE fighter into something that can shoot PT's they'd have to Manufacture it themselves... Something that would take alot of time and infrastructure.

 

 

These THAADs have a limited range, and a limited ceiling height. The TIEs aren't conventional fighters that will have to cross terrain to reach their targets, having to dodge fighter patrols and SAM sites, they will literally just be able to fly straight up outisde the range of all our missiles, avoid any sort of fight entirely, and then simply swoop down on areas that lack any sort of protection. Unless the Earth is covered in SAM sites or within easy range of an airbase, TIEs can pick and chose when they can attack, Earth cannot.

 

BTW, there are only 48 THAAD interceptors out of 6 THAAD launchers. They aren't going to be doing much besides defending one area.

Yeah, and in a climate of Total War where US soil and Civilians are on the line, you'd think that they'd mass produce them, and deploy the ones they do have with fighter support to these Strategic areas. Not only that, but the Bombs that TIE/sa use are somewhat slow based on what we see in TESB, so unless the bomb wants to be shot out of the air by CIWS and THAAD, they'll have to put themselves in harms way with a close run.

[Guest Ruinus]

The Technomancer of Nesh: It'll be pretty hard if the Imperial forces have their surrender demand attached to a "scrap all of your armed forces/vehicles/weaponry". Since they can force the entire Earth into surrender and wipe out large parts of the Earth, the option of "Neuter Earths' military to survive" IS a viable option. That or mass death that the Imperials won't give a shit about.

 

Skirmisher: The TIE bombers during TESB looked like they were dropping proton bombs which are slow. But that isn't the same as proton torpedoes or missiles.

 

Also, why can't they stick on those missile tubes to the TIE/Ins? Is it a limitation you've put on them? Because the PGB sound like they should have the equipment there.

 

Beyond that, rate of production for these things? Factories and such would probably be the first things to go up in smoke, so would freight trains, cargo ships, etc.

 

Also, reading the set up, the FSCV is, as far as I know, completely fine. It can break up into two ships (the front and back) and simply head over to the asteroid belt, and then bring some rocks back to Earth to drop on people who get uppity.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, nevermind. That'd count as an orbital asset.

[Skirmisher]

Skirmisher: The TIE bombers during TESB looked like they were dropping proton bombs which are slow. But that isn't the same as proton torpedoes or missiles.

 

Also, why can't they stick on those missile tubes to the TIE/Ins? Is it a limitation you've put on them? Because the PGB sound like they should have the equipment there.

 

Also, reading the set up, the FSCV is, as far as I know, completely fine. It can break up into two ships (the front and back) and simply head over to the asteroid belt, and then bring some rocks back to Earth to drop on people who get uppity.

I've put not limitation on them but that which they themselves have put on them... they're getting their TIE's from a Standard Garrison Deployment. As such they wouldn't have non-standard weaponry.

 

Fighters and Bombers would be Base Model, as such, fighters wouldn't have the PT Upgrade, and they wouldn't even have PT's in Stock since Bombers are designed to Bomb targets. They Might have a couple PT's per Base. But It's not as if the entire TIE force has access to bottomless amounts of PT's...

[Nesh]

Ruinis do you really think the detachment can take an Earth now, as you want it bombed to crap and deviod of popluation and build enough tech on their own to contact the GE? Earthlings are a stubborn adaptable lot you kill their families and they will fight, in order to make it stop we're talking total extinction of the natives of Earth.

[Guest Ruinus]

I've put not limitation on them but that which they themselves have put on them... they're getting their TIE's from a Standard Garrison Deployment. As such they wouldn't have non-standard weaponry.

 

Fighters and Bombers would be Base Model, as such, fighters wouldn't have the PT Upgrade, and they wouldn't even have PT's in Stock since Bombers are designed to Bomb targets. They Might have a couple PT's per Base. But It's not as if the entire TIE force has access to bottomless amounts of PT's...

 

I can maybe understand the reasoning that the TIE/Ins wouldn't have missile tubes, but why are you now limiting the TIE/sa to not have access to their regular weaponry? Are you telling me you are limiting the TIE/sa to pure proton bombs and not any of the other armament it was designed to carry simply because of the world "bomber"? Even in light of the fact that the TIE/sa can carry 4 proton torpedoes, 8 concussion missiles and some number of bombs at the same time?

[Guest Ruinus]

Ruinis do you really think the detachment can take an Earth now, as you want it bombed to crap and deviod of popluation and build enough tech on their own to contact the GE? Earthlings are a stubborn adaptable lot you kill their families and they will fight, in order to make it stop we're talking total extinction of the natives of Earth.

 

Any opposition after that is going to be limited to a random terrorist bombing outside the Imperial embassies or puppet governments. I mean, in case no one noticed, there are 10 Sector Armies on Earth now. That's 7,747,560 combat soldiers, 4,057,330 support personnel, 666,400 repulsocraft and 139,220 heavy tanks. Each of these is bolstered by 18,550 men inside each Sectory Army HQ. It's not like Earth is fighting off 1,000 small military bases or just dealing with the personnel found inside, they're dealing with an entire million strong army with high tech vehicles that outperform modern Earth ones. AND they have an air force that can reach the Moon and back in less than 7 minutes and drop kiloton explosives on us.

 

Earth will probably surrender almost overnight, and massive scale destruction won't be necessary. It might be used on a city here or there, but after that Earth surrenders.

[Nesh]

Any opposition after that is going to be limited to a random terrorist bombing outside the Imperial embassies or puppet governments. I mean, in case no one noticed, there are 10 Sector Armies on Earth now. That's 7,747,560 combat soldiers, 4,057,330 support personnel, 666,400 repulsocraft and 139,220 heavy tanks. Each of these is bolstered by 18,550 men inside each Sectory Army HQ. It's not like Earth is fighting off 1,000 small military bases or just dealing with the personnel found inside, they're dealing with an entire million strong army with high tech vehicles that outperform modern Earth ones. AND they have an air force that can reach the Moon and back in less than 7 minutes and drop kiloton explosives on us.

 

Earth will probably surrender almost overnight, and massive scale destruction won't be necessary. It might be used on a city here or there, but after that Earth surrenders.

Look at yor history book their are plenty of instances of primitive people beating advanced ones, tech isn't everything. I get the feeling if the Empire really did invade you'd jump for joy.

[Guest Ruinus]

Look at yor history book their are plenty of instances of primitive people beating advanced ones, tech isn't everything. I get the feeling if the Empire really did invade you'd jump for joy.

 

Tech is everything if the combatants is one modern nation fighting another with 300 km/h energy shielded tanks, tanks with nuclear bomb firepower, fighters that reach the Moon and back with kiloton bombs and FTL communications along with military bases that are also shielded.

 

I mean, what, do you expect Earth to be filled with irrational suicidal idiots who will simply say "RAR Keep fighting to the last man! RAR!"? You know what method will allow the greatest numbef of people to keep their lives, limit destruction and keep the world functioning? Surrender.

 

Also don't be silly, I'd hate if the Galactic "land ships on protesters" Empire invaded Earth. But if they did, I'd be one of the people telling everyone that surrender is the way to go. Not surrendering would simply result in alot of smoking craters on Earth.

[Nesh]

Tech is everything if the combatants is one modern nation fighting another with 300 km/h energy shielded tanks, tanks with nuclear bomb firepower, fighters that reach the Moon and back with kiloton bombs and FTL communications along with military bases that are also shielded.

 

I mean, what, do you expect Earth to be filled with irrational suicidal idiots who will simply say "RAR Keep fighting to the last man! RAR!"? You know what method will allow the greatest numbef of people to keep their lives, limit destruction and keep the world functioning? Surrender.

 

Also don't be silly, I'd hate if the Galactic "land ships on protesters" Empire invaded Earth. But if they did, I'd be one of the people telling everyone that surrender is the way to go. Not surrendering would simply result in alot of smoking craters on Earth.

So you'd roll over and play dead, people don't like being opressed, that's all I'm saying even if the Empire wins this intial encounter and gets the surrender, the will eventually lose. They don't have a palpitine or Trawn to sway the people. Viva la resistance.

[Guest Ruinus]

So you'd roll over and play dead, people don't like being opressed, that's all I'm saying even if the Empire wins this intial encounter and gets the surrender, the will eventually lose. They don't have a palpitine or Trawn to sway the people. Viva la resistance.

 

I didn't realize this suddenly turned into a "Weed out the cowardly traitors of Earth" thread.

 

But yes, why? Because I'm not a retard who can't see that between the options "Pay taxes to the Empire instead of to the US government" and "see my hometown turned into a giant radioactive crater" that the first option is the best one. Especially if the first option can be done without any loss of life.

 

Also, why would the Empire eventually lose? So far you haven't actually made any sort of positive statement backing up your argument beyond "rar the Revolution! Human spirit rar!". How is a small modern rebellion going to overcome the Imperial forces?

[Skirmisher]

Tech is everything if the combatants is one modern nation fighting another with 300 km/h energy shielded tanks, tanks with nuclear bomb firepower, fighters that reach the Moon and back with kiloton bombs and FTL communications along with military bases that are also shielded.

Except Ruinus... they don't have Juggernauts they have Repulsor Tanks.... you know... because they're Imperial Army, not Special Forces.

 

 

I mean, what, do you expect Earth to be filled with irrational suicidal idiots...

Actually yes... yes the world is filled with irrational suicidal idiots... and they'd fight the Imperials, in fact the presence of these Aggressive Extraterrestrial Invaders would actually spur all of Earth on to Greater Feats of Cooperation... Hezbollah might actually fight along side Izrael against these Invaders... Al Qaeda and US soldiers would fight alongside each other against the Empire...

 

It would be a good time for the People of Earth as they come together for the first time in World History to face a Common Threat... and you know, world leaders will be cranking out the Propaganda insuring that even the Civilians are whipped up into a frenzy of Freedom Fighters.

 

 

Also don't be silly, I'd hate if the Galactic "land ships on protesters" Empire invaded Earth. But if they did, I'd be one of the people telling everyone that surrender is the way to go. Not surrendering would simply result in alot of smoking craters on Earth.

Assuming that they have that equipment with them at the time... something that a Garrison Force doesn't have access to in large numbers...

[Nesh]

I didn't realize this suddenly turned into a "Weed out the cowardly traitors of Earth" thread.

 

But yes, why? Because I'm not a retard who can't see that between the options "Pay taxes to the Empire instead of to the US government" and "see my hometown turned into a giant radioactive crater" that the first option is the best one. Especially if the first option can be done without any loss of life.

 

Also, why would the Empire eventually lose? So far you haven't actually made any sort of positive statement backing up your argument beyond "rar the Revolution! Human spirit rar!". How is a small modern rebellion going to overcome the Imperial forces?

Thew same way the United States won independence, the same way the Ethiopians fought of the French, and so many other examples.. Tactics and terrain familiarity. The IRA was able to fight the English to a standstill not to mention the Imperial forces have to keep track of six billion people. They're spread tin man and we're a largely democratic world, a lot of people will want that back.

[Guest Ruinus]

Except Ruinus... they don't have Juggernauts they have Repulsor Tanks.... you know... because they're Imperial Army, not Special Forces.

 

I was reading over the Imperial Army page on Wookieepedia, and apparently repulsorcraft are that, vehicles with repulsors, but "heavy tanks" are almost everything else: walkers, Turbo tanks, etc etc. I dunno why. I guess the "heavy" part is speak for "doesn't float" or whatever.

 

Actually yes... yes the world is filled with irrational suicidal idiots... and they'd fight the Imperials, in fact the presence of these Aggressive Extraterrestrial Invaders would actually spur all of Earth on to Greater Feats of Cooperation... Hezbollah might actually fight along side Izrael against these Invaders... Al Qaeda and US soldiers would fight alongside each other against the Empire...

 

It would be a good time for the People of Earth as they come together for the first time in World History to face a Common Threat... and you know, world leaders will be cranking out the Propaganda insuring that even the Civilians are wiped up into a frenzy of Freedom Fighters.

 

Except that no, they wouldn't. Because again, they are facing a military force that can rain down destruction on any city on the face of the planet, knock out our satellite network with no trouble at all, especially considering that the Empire doesn't even actually remove local leaders from positions of power. They'd still be there, most of the laws would be the same, all that woudl be added is that they pay taxes to the Empire now.

 

Assuming that they have that equipment with them at the time... something that a Garrison Force doesn't have access to in large numbers...

 

Alright, Since your the OP. How many missiles, torpedoes, bombs does each TIE/sa have? How long till their resources run out?

 

Really, I just noticed how much the set up lacks for the victory conditions for the GE. Of course it's easy to argue that Earth might win eventually, since you didn't bother to say what the GE has to do to win. Get everyone to surrender? How many sorties will the TIEs be able to do before they are useless? How long till the HQ sends a FTL message and it has a response? How long till GE reinforcmenets arrive?

[Guest Ruinus]

Thew same way the United States won independence,

 

Both sides had the exact same tech. One side wasn't fielding jet fighters against sail boats. Also, the French, Prussian and other armies showing up and helping America might have had something to do with the Revolutionary Army suddenly getting it's act together.

 

the same way the Ethiopians fought of the French,

 

Unfamiliar with this conflict. Maybe you mean the war between Italy and Ethiopia, where Italy was defeated in WWII and had to give up Ethiopia?

 

and so many other examples.. Tactics and terrain familiarity. The IRA was able to fight the English to a standstill not to mention the Imperial forces have to keep track of six billion people. They're spread tin man and we're a largely democratic world, a lot of people will want that back.

 

All examples of nations fighting other nations with similar tech disparity, not conflitcs were nations with bows and arrows fought off men in tanks and assault rifles. I guess the conquest of the New World had nothing to do with the firearms the Europeans brought? Or their armor or cannons, or their horses? (Along with their plagues). I guess all the mega-fauna that lived on the Earth just happened to disappear for no good reason around the same time man discovered tools?

 

I wonder how tactics (the lowest level of military planning) are going to be useful when your enemy has all the strategic advantages? I wonder when all 6 billion people of Earth suddenly became violent revolutionaries rather than harmless civilians that have no military training at all?

 

I forgot that your argument is a bunch of vague statements about revolution and tactics and "it happened before".

 

Tell me how Earth goes on a guerilla warfare campaign after it's surrendered if the Empire orders all military vehicles and assets destroyed?

[Nesh]

Both sides had the exact same tech. One side wasn't fielding jet fighters against sail boats. Also, the French, Prussian and other armies showing up and helping America might have had something to do with the Revolutionary Army suddenly getting it's act together.

 

 

 

Unfamiliar with this conflict. Maybe you mean the war between Italy and Ethiopia, where Italy was defeated in WWII and had to give up Ethiopia?

 

 

 

All examples of nations fighting other nations with similar tech disparity, not conflitcs were nations with bows and arrows fought off men in tanks and assault rifles. I guess the conquest of the New World had nothing to do with the firearms the Europeans brought? Or their armor or cannons, or their horses? (Along with their plagues). I guess all the mega-fauna that lived on the Earth just happened to disappear for no good reason around the same time man discovered tools?

 

I wonder how tactics (the lowest level of military planning) are going to be useful when your enemy has all the strategic advantages? I wonder when all 6 billion people of Earth suddenly became violent revolutionaries rather than harmless civilians that have no military training at all?

 

I forgot that your argument is a bunch of vague statements about revolution and tactics and "it happened before".

 

Tell me how Earth goes on a guerilla warfare campaign after it's surrendered if the Empire orders all military vehicles and assets destroyed?

Yews I meant the Italian invasin, may bad. Do you really think Earth would give all their weapons, no some will be hid. Since when did every Imperial soldier become a cold heartless monster who would be fine bombing cities full of millions of humans? There's a possiblity of turncoats there. Onnce the Imperials occpy their forces will be spread thin an guess what they are going to find their Empire no longer exists and they're stuck on a primive planet with nowhere to go where ant sane native will at least secretly want to make them pay and get some semblance of freedom back. It won't end well wor them.

[Guest Ruinus]

Yews I meant the Italian invasin, may bad. Do you really think Earth would give all their weapons, no some will be hid. Since when did every Imperial soldier become a cold heartless monster who would be fine bombing cities full of millions of humans?

 

Some might be hidden, but probalby not enough to mean anything.

A while ago on page 1 Skir said there where just as many stormtroopers as troopers. The stormtroopers are the guys who don't bat an eyelash when the orders come down to kill innocent people, or burn down towns or cities. Every single soldier doesn't need to be fine with it, just the ones who are fine with it are the ones that need to be ordered to do it.

 

There's a possiblity of turncoats there. Onnce the Imperials occpy their forces will be spread thin an guess what they are going to find their Empire no longer exists and they're stuck on a primive planet with nowhere to go where ant sane native will at least secretly want to make them pay and get some semblance of freedom back. It won't end well wor them.

 

That wormhole is still there. It can connect them back to their galaxy (or so I'm assuming, the OP isn't clear). All they have to do is send a message or ship back through it.

[Skirmisher]

I was reading over the Imperial Army page on Wookieepedia, and apparently repulsorcraft are that, vehicles with repulsors, but "heavy tanks" are almost everything else: walkers, Turbo tanks, etc etc. I dunno why. I guess the "heavy" part is speak for "doesn't float" or whatever.

Except Ruinus... the 1-H is a Heavy Tank...

 

 

Except that no, they wouldn't. Because again, they are facing a military force that can rain down destruction on any city on the face of the planet, knock out our satellite network with no trouble at all, especially considering that the Empire doesn't even actually remove local leaders from positions of power. They'd still be there, most of the laws would be the same, all that woudl be added is that they pay taxes to the Empire now.

Hmm... except that you seem to be under the Delusion that they would be able to do this rather easily... it's not as if they have the ability to rain down thousands of these low Kiloton level Bombs with impunity, and it's safe to assume that the Unshielded TIE's would be a Prime Target for SAMs which you once again UTTERLY FAIL to take into account.

 

How would the Imperial Forces know which cities would have these World Leaders?

How would the Imperial Forces know where the Major Military Installations like NORAD and other Nations counterparts are located?

Even assuming that taking out our Satellites would actually work to disrupt communication... we still have Basic Radio and Land Lines...

 

All they would have done is take away our Internet, Satellite Cell Phones, and GPS... but guess what? We actually don't need that stuff. Because the Military is Actually prepared for something like that happening, and to figure that our Resolve would be broken by a light bombing of Low Yield Bombs that are targeted at Random places that Seem like they might be Strategic to someone who doesn't know the situation, and a crippling of our internet services... Just seems stupid... Especially considering the fact that TIEs are Fairly Fragile things to wipe out... Just one missile wreaking it's solar panel would knock the thing out of the air, and while that would only disable it in space... it has the Rapidly approaching ground to worry about.

 

So In light of the fact that our Air Forces are fairly Even in Numbers to theirs and that we actually have SAM sites that can wipe them out... it stands to reason that Their TIE advantage isn't as Great as you make it out to be.

 

 

Alright, Since your the OP. How many missiles, torpedoes, bombs does each TIE/sa have? How long till their resources run out?

 

Really, I just noticed how much the set up lacks for the victory conditions for the GE. Of course it's easy to argue that Earth might win eventually, since you didn't bother to say what the GE has to do to win. Get everyone to surrender? How many sorties will the TIEs be able to do before they are useless? How long till the HQ sends a FTL message and it has a response? How long till GE reinforcmenets arrive?

Frankly these TIE's were meant to be a Garrison Force, they're not kitted out for Full Scale War... that's why they have the Numbers Advantage.

 

 

Win Conditions for them are Total Subjugation of the Native Population.

 

TIE Fighters are only equipped with Basic Model Weaponry

TIE Bombers are equipped with 4 Proton Torps, 8 Concussion Missiles, and 8 Proton Bombs. But Bases are only stocked with 2 more of each type per TIE Bomber. With another full payload of Bombs.

 

Remember these are Low Kiloton level bombs, and would probably take a full flight of Bombers to devastate an average city.

 

If they make it past our defenses that is...

[Guest Ruinus]

Except Ruinus... the 1-H is a Heavy Tank...

 

It's a repulsorcraft too. A turbo is a heavy tank, since heavy tanks appear to be anything that isn't a repulsorcraft.

 

Hmm... except that you seem to be under the Delusion that they would be able to do this rather easily... it's not as if they have the ability to rain down thousands of these low Kiloton level Bombs with impunity, and it's safe to assume that the Unshielded TIE's would be a Prime Target for SAMs which you once again UTTERLY FAIL to take into account.

 

5 TIE/sa's per base. 1,000 PGBs means 5,000 TIE/sa. Each with 12 missiles (proton and concussion). 60,000 kiloton missiles, just based on one single loadout for the TIE/sa.

 

Also, about the SAMs. Provide maps, where are these SAMs? Really, all I'm hearing from the other side is "SAMS!" Ok, sure. Where are they? How many? I want to see a map showing a complete coverage of all of the Earth by SAMs.

 

How would the Imperial Forces know which cities would have these World Leaders?

How would the Imperial Forces know where the Major Military Installations like NORAD and other Nations counterparts are located?

Even assuming that taking out our Satellites would actually work to disrupt communication... we still have Basic Radio and Land Lines...

 

They woudln't need to. They'd simply need to know which cities have alot of people, which is easy to figure out.

 

They wouldn't, they'd need to know which cities to attack. The big ones.

 

GPS and satellite imaging would be gone. Militaries would need another way to see troop movements.

 

All they would have done is take away our Internet, Satellite Cell Phones, and GPS... but guess what? We actually don't need that stuff. Because the Military is Actually prepared for something like that happening, and to figure that our Resolve would be broken by a light bombing of Low Yield Bombs that are targeted at Random places that Seem like they might be Strategic to someone who doesn't know the situation, and a crippling of our internet services... Just seems stupid... Especially considering the fact that TIEs are Fairly Fragile things to wipe out... Just one missile wreaking it's solar panel would knock the thing out of the air, and while that would only disable it in space... it has the Rapidly approaching ground to worry about.

 

So In light of the fact that our Air Forces are fairly Even in Numbers to theirs and that we actually have SAM sites that can wipe them out... it stands to reason that Their TIE advantage isn't as Great as you make it out to be.

 

I'd like to know the effectiveness of a military without satellite imaging and GPS. How would, say, the US army fight after that?

 

Again, where are these SAMs? Maps, I want to see maps of SAM coverage, how fast they can be deployed and their numbers. I have never once said that a TIE is invulnerable, I have, however, been saying that their ability to pick and choose targets makes them hard to kill enemies, since they can show up in areas that don't have fighter or SAM support.

 

Frankly these TIE's were meant to be a Garrison Force, they're not kitted out for Full Scale War... that's why they have the Numbers Advantage.

 

 

Win Conditions for them are Total Subjugation of the Native Population.

 

TIE Fighters are only equipped with Basic Model Weaponry

TIE Bombers are equipped with 4 Proton Torps, 8 Concussion Missiles, and 8 Proton Bombs. But Bases are only stocked with 2 more of each type per TIE Bomber. With another full payload of Bombs.

 

Remember these are Low Kiloton level bombs, and would probably take a full flight of Bombers to devastate an average city.

 

If they make it past our defenses that is...

 

Each TIE/sa has about 12 kT, if a squadron is about 12 ships, then 144 kTs are being carried around by a single TIE/sa squadron. About those SAMs and fighters. Again, I want to know how many SAMs are covering New York.

[Guest Ruinus]

Actually, if the win condition for the GE of "Total Subjugation of the Native Population." IS in fact "total subjucation of every single human being on Earth" then there is no way the GE will win. There's simply no method available where all 6,697,254,041 of us will be subjugated.

[Guest darthvader45]

Here's a Google Maps interpretation of armed SAM sites:

So, the planet is pretty much covered.

 

 

 

Even the U.S. has several military bases, each with several of these:

 

I highly doubt TIE Fighters would just vaporize (vape) all of 'em and then attack Earth's cities with impunity. They'd be shot down quite fast. Most SAMs are built with a high-tech targeting system. Plus, considering stormtrooper armor can be pierced by flint arrows, I suppose our soldiers could fill 'em with lead and use rocket launchers on AT-ATs and AT-STs, while scout bikes would be easily taken down by shooting the rider. Then howitzers to take down the bases, which are usually stocking explosive munitions of some kind. Finally: The numbers game. We'd have the Empire outnumbered more than 10-1. Result: Humans blow away the Empire, while still taking heavy casualties. We then team up with the Rebellion and whoop some GE arse. Then I silently assassinate the Emperor with a lightsaber by cloaking my Force presence.

Edited March 5, 2013 by darthvader45