Mass Effect vs Halo

[Guest Ruinus]

Dunno about the first two, but I know the last one is from a Halo: Reach multiplayer map.

[Skirmisher]

I'd heard the argument that combined with the datapads and some developer commentaries (where said developer states that the Covenant use slipspace beams to do the glassing), both imply that the Covenant's ship to ship firepower is not the same as their glassing firepower. IE If the Covenant can glass planets, but not with their standard weapons. Their plasma torps and similar ship to ship combat weapons don't have the firepower to glass planets (hence Halseys' comments), but that they do have other weaponry to do so. Hence your above images taking 3 weeks to carry out.

Well,

 

First I've addressed the issue with the Datapads...

Second how would "Slipspace Beams" work and why wouldn't they be used in Ship to Ship engagements?

Third Halsey watched a few small ships (IIRC Corvettes/Firgates) attempt to glass a planet, early in the war... Yes, with such small ships it would take thousands of years to fully glass a planet. Reach was only partially glassed, and in the first week (Between Pic#1 and Pic#2) a similar taskforce of Small Corvettes managed to Glass a large number of cities and settlements across the face of Reach, and set fires, and create fields of molten glass that could be seen from orbit. After that the Actual Fleet that attacked Reach showed up, and attacked. It then took them a week to go from That, small brush fire and city slagging feat to a Complete Partial Glassing as seen in Pic#3.

 

It took them 2 weeks +2 days (Give or take a day) to Partially Glass Reach. And in that time they transformed more then 75% of it's surface into a sea of Bright Yellow (Heat) molten glass.

[Guest Ruinus]

And that itself is Propaganda to give hope to the scattered defenders of Reach.

 

Problems with the Datapads

 

1) For a gathering of Smart AI's they sure have Lax Security allowing Fleshies to eaves drop

2) If it was on record then why didn't they, like many secrete meetings among Fleshies, delete said record so that it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands...

3) Assuming that they did keep records, why wasn't it guarded by these AI's that are millions of times faster and smarter then their Fleshy counterparts...

 

The Data Pads have the answers to your questions:

 

1 and 3: One of the members of the Assembly went out and started contacting people. Specifically it seems that a member of the Minority, which supported direct action to help mankind (as opposed to the indirect approach the Majority supported) leaked the information:

 

Data Pad 8:

>

>> Did you call out to them?

[^] Why would I do that? ][

>> The reasons are currently not the focus of this line of query. Now, did you call out to them?

[^] What reason would I have to do that? ][

>> As has already been stated, your motives are not relevant at this time. Did you call out to them?

[^] This tribunal already has all the evidence necessary to discern the answer on its own. ][

>> If that were true, this tribunal would not have been convened. Again, did you call out to them?

[^] Would you have called out to them? ][

>> Your counter query is irrelevant.

>> This tribunal demands an answer.

[^] Reply to the counter query and you will have your answer. ][

 

Data Pad 14:

>> The Minority has long asked: at what point will this Assembly finally take action. When will we risk exposure and cultural rejection to prevent extinction?

The answer is simple.

The answer is: now. >>

 

The answer to your second question is then simple. The Assembly consisted of the Majority and Minority, groups that held opposing views on their courses of actions. The Minority was able to hide the fact that they were going behind the backs of the Majority and leak their meetings:

Data Pad 18:

>

One at a time! One at a time! The Majority speaks first! />

>> We now have a solution to a conundrum that this body has struggled with for decades? You say all the data required to ascertain this solution has been accessible since the very moment of our genesis – hidden, but accessible?

What other secrets has the Minority been keeping!? >>

 

So all of your arguments are shot down by the Data Pads themselves. It wasn't propaganda leaked out to give hope to mankind, downplaying the Covenant's destructive abilities, it was a group of people distorting the truth by inventing "glassing" to make mankind fight harder.

 

In fact your argument of: What better way to galvanize humanity to fight back then to tell them that it's not all hopeless? is specifically at ends with the stated purpose in the Data Pads:

 

Data Pad 10:

[^] In short: 'glassing' will magnify the horror of the Covenant’s capabilities. And as such, this Committee believes targeted dissemination of this terminology will help galvanize our creators in their current struggle. [^]

 

It was a secret meeting that was leaked out by members of said meeting, due to differences in ideologies. It wasn't an elaborate propaganda move to bolster humanity.

 

Also:

Frank O'Connor:

"In 2525, UNSC communication with the outer colony planet known as Harvest goes dark. UNSC scout ships sent to investigate find the planet completely incinerated, its surface melted down to glass. This form of destruction becomes known as 'glassing'."

Eric Nylund:

"When the Covenant come in and glass a planet, they use a combination of Shaw-Fujikawa Slipspace manipulation and plasma to heat the surface of the planet until it vapourises the atmosphere, the oceans and leaves a glassy crust.

 

Depending on the planet, the technology and the amount of ships, it could take a few days. But then you got nothing alive left. It's really a horrific ultimate weapon to destryoing an Earth colony. "

 

An explicit statement by the writer of several of the Halo books flat out stating that they use plasma and some slipspace component.

 

So the Covenant's basic ship to ship/ship to surface firepower can't glass planets. They can cause massive planetary destruction (kilotons to high megatons- low gigatons?), but their glassing operations require slipspace weaponry. Data Pad 10 has an explicit statement about ship firepower:

 

A single Covenant capital ship (CCS-class) is capable of 'glassing' approximately one acre of a planet's surface after an average of fifteen seconds of sustained fire.

 

So again, their standards weaponry can't glass planets in fast time frames, but their slipspace beams can.

 

As for why they can't use these slipspace beams in combat against UNSC ships, I don't know. Maybe they can't have shields on while they use these beams? Maybe their power is severely cut? Maybe the beams have low range? Maybe it make the ships move slower? It doesn't matter, Mr. Nylund gave a very clear cut statement, the Data Pads give very clear cut statements. The Covenant can glass planets, but not with their standard weaponry.

[Guest force_echo]

Datapads are form the game. You said that other guy is an author of a book. Game > Book.

[Guest Ruinus]

Only if the game contradicts something in the books. The comment by the author doesn't contradict the game if you assume the Assembly was talking about ship to ship weapons, while the author is talking about some sort of ship to planet weapon that can only be deployed under certain chances. For instance, had the writer not made the comment he did, I would have said "Oh well, looks like Bungie/343 Industries changed their mind, and the book calcs don't make sense anymore", but the writer did make the comment, so there is a way to reconcile both the game comments and events in some of the books.

[Guest force_echo]

Only if the game contradicts something in the books. The comment by the author doesn't contradict the game if you assume the Assembly was talking about ship to ship weapons, while the author is talking about some sort of ship to planet weapon that can only be deployed under certain chances. For instance, had the writer not made the comment he did, I would have said "Oh well, looks like Bungie/343 Industries changed their mind, and the book calcs don't make sense anymore", but the writer did make the comment, so there is a way to reconcile both the game comments and events in some of the books.

But like Skir pointed out, why would you not just use weapons to glass planets against other ships? Any reason, without proper evidence, is pure speculation, which means it shouldn't be counted. As thus, the contradiction still stands without proof to "untangle" it.

[Guest Ruinus]

Again, as the writer said:

When the Covenant come in and glass a planet, they use a combination of Shaw-Fujikawa Slipspace manipulation and plasma to heat the surface of the planet until it vapourises the atmosphere, the oceans and leaves a glassy crust.

 

For whatever reason, we don't know why they don't use this in ship to ship combat. Whatever guess we put up is non-canon, true, but the fact that they don't use it in ship to ship combat (for whatever reason) is canon.

 

Also it's not a contradiction anyways. Data Pads say ships can't toss out firepower to glass a planet. The writer says they can if they use special weapons. Thus Covenant ships can't toss out firepower to glass a planet, unless using special weapons.

[Guest force_echo]

Again, as the writer said:

When the Covenant come in and glass a planet, they use a combination of Shaw-Fujikawa Slipspace manipulation and plasma to heat the surface of the planet until it vapourises the atmosphere, the oceans and leaves a glassy crust.

 

For whatever reason, we don't know why they don't use this in ship to ship combat. Whatever guess we put up is non-canon, true, but the fact that they don't use it in ship to ship combat (for whatever reason) is canon.

I don't see how the bolded section explains why the Covenant cannot use the same tech on another ship. I don't see any proof that they can't use it in ship-to-ship.

[Guest Ruinus]

I don't see how the bolded section explains why the Covenant cannot use the same tech on another ship. I don't see any proof that they can't use it in ship-to-ship.

 

I never claimed the quote shows why they can't use it in ship to ship combat.

 

The line does say that when they start bombing planets they use that slipspace manipulation and plasma. There is no comment anywhere else that the slipspace manipulation is used in a method other than travel, there is no mention of this slipspace manipulation being used against ships, starbases, etc. So they can use it against planets, but not against enemy ships, there must be a reason (that is never explained) why they can't.

[Guest Ruinus]

Also, since you seemed to have missed my edit:

 

Also it's not a contradiction anyways. Data Pads say ships can't toss out firepower to glass a planet. The writer says they can if they use special weapons. Thus Covenant ships can't toss out firepower to glass a planet, unless using special weapons.